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Thread: Arizona Gov. Brewer Vetoes Bill to Allow Guns on Public College Campuses

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    Regular Member skorittnig's Avatar
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    Arizona Gov. Brewer Vetoes Bill to Allow Guns on Public College Campuses

    Arizona Gov. Brewer Vetoes Bill to Allow Guns on Public College Campuses
    Published April 18, 2011
    | Associated Press
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    PHOENIX -- Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a bill to allow guns to be carried on public rights of way on public university and community college campuses.
    Gun-rights advocates backed the bill, saying it would help people defend themselves and prevent them from getting in trouble for merely driving through a campus with a gun in a vehicle.
    University presidents opposed the bill. They said allowing guns on campuses would endanger employees, students and visitors, and it would be difficult for officers responding to a shooting to quickly identify a wrongdoer.
    The bill originally would have applied to campus buildings, including classrooms, by allowing people with concealed weapons permits to carry guns into the facilities.
    But it was scaled back during Senate consideration to apply only to rights of way. References to concealed weapons also were removed.

    Supporters said they needed to change the bill to only apply to rights of way because the original, broader measure lacked enough support in the House.
    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence opposed the latest version and sought a veto, even though it said the bill was gutted by the Senate.
    Texas legislation similar to the original Arizona bill is stalled in that state, with opposition preventing it from coming to a Senate vote.
    Brewer must act by midnight Thursday on another Arizona guns-rights measure that would allow weapons in some government buildings that don't have airport-style security with armed guards and metal detectors.
    That bill would not override a separate state law that bars guns in K-12 schools, and it would not disturb a law that gives higher education officials the authority to ban guns.
    Also, the legislation would not clear the way for guns to be carried in public-owned convention centers, sports arenas, courthouses, prosecutors' offices and police facilities.
    Since becoming governor in January 2009, Brewer has signed several major guns-rights bills. Those included one to allow carrying a concealed weapon without having a state-issued permit, and another to allow carrying a concealed weapon into a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1Jvca8zB2



    This is ridiculous--"difficult for officers to identify the wrongdoer"??? SO...its easier for the officers if everyone else is just dead and unarmed?
    skorittnig

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    Typical politician stuff.

    Brewer only signed Constitutional Carry and SB1070 because she spent all her political capital on the tax increases and needed to regain conservative support. Constitutional Carry bought votes and 1070 reframed the debate in her favor, giving her the primary and general election on a silver platter. Brilliant.

    She doesn't have any big political problems this year, so now she feels she doesn't need libertarian gun owners' votes badly enough to risk looking bad after Tucson.

    Funny thing is right now the same thing is happening in Illinois. Political leaders are about to throw a CCW bone to keep in office after supporting gay marriage and ending the death penalty.

    Brewer will support self defense rights again when it is in her best political interest.

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    Regular Member DontTreadOnMeVa's Avatar
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    Piss on Brewer, she vetos this bill and calls herself a strong supporter of the second amendment.
    Piss on you Brewer!

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    Regular Member Grimes's Avatar
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    Sad day indeed. I thought for sure it would have been signed.

    She doesn't want to look bad I guess after Tucson. Oh well, we will try again.

    She said, "While I support thoughtful expansion of where firearms should be allowed, the actual legislation that does so must be unambiguous and clear to protect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners. Senate Bill 1467 is neither."

    She just wants it worded better, then she'll sign it.
    Last edited by Grimes; 04-18-2011 at 10:25 PM.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    To Whomever is Concerned:

    The Arizona Legislature can Vote to Override any Bill Vetoed by The Arizona Governor, usally with a 75% Majority Vote.

    Furthermore, under The Senate Enbgrosssed Version of Arizona Senate Bill 1201, The Definition of 'Political Subdivison' includes: Colleges and ANY Property under The Control of The Arizona Board of Regents.

    aadvark

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    You DON'T veto a bill that recognizes more rights on public property. You make your objections to the sloppy wording known and sign it or do nothing so it becomes law automatically. Then you encourage the legislature to force public universities to allow guns everywhere on campus.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Poop on Governor Brewer. What good is education if any thug who cares not a whit for the law or my life can come onto campus and rid me of my own life because I have been given the choice to be a criminal or be defenseless?

    When will these people ever get it?

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    They'll 'get it' when an incident happens on some campus 'n nobody's armed. (as usual). 'Doesn't affect me any... i never go anywhere near the UofA (or any others). The libs made their beds... let 'em lay in 'em.

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    Regular Member Super Saiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    They'll 'get it' when an incident happens on some campus 'n nobody's armed. (as usual)
    Ha! That'll be the day...
    Most people learn from their mistakes, but not these people. It's like picking up a hot pan for the first time as a child. You didn't know it would hurt, but you sure did learn quick. Most people have enough sense to realize 'Hey, that was hot. I don't like pain and/or physical injury, so I'm not going to pick it up anymore with my bare hands.' On the other hand, you have these people, some of whom have actually survived school shootings. They've heard all about these school shootings time and time again, and what is their answer? Instead of getting trained and arming themselves, they opt to support others hanging up magical 'gun free zone' signs, because apparently that'll actually stop someone from committing a mass school shooting. I mean, the probability of getting gunned down by a law enforcement officer, going to prison for life, or being put to death by the State isn't enough to deter these types of people, but hey, a sign will do the trick.
    Ugh!!! What idiots!!!
    Last edited by Super Saiyan; 04-19-2011 at 04:20 PM.

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    I'm confused; the OCDO campus carry map shows Arizona as "green" -- carry is not statutorily prohibited. This bill only sought to legalize carry on public rights of way. By that standard, Texas should be green, because guns are only prohibited in buildings.

    Was this a bill to override college bans, or is there actually a statute banning campus carry?
    Last edited by KBCraig; 04-19-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    They'll 'get it' when an incident happens on some campus 'n nobody's armed. (as usual). 'Doesn't affect me any... i never go anywhere near the UofA (or any others). The libs made their beds... let 'em lay in 'em.
    They probably won't even then. I'm not more than maybe 100 miles from Virginia Tech and know several people who went there during the time of the shooting where 30+ people were murdered one morning and another woman was hacked apart with a butcher knife in a cafeteria with students in the cafeteria and Virginia Tech administrators still don't get it.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Good news! Colin Goddard is happy!

    It's hard to make Goddard happy. Brewer apparently succeeded:
    It offends me that people who have never faced a gunman in the confined space of a classroom would think that it makes sense to allow loaded guns on campus, and even through rights of way. Gov. Brewer apparently understood the dangers of allowing guns to be transported through school and college zones, and I applaud her for rejecting this legislation that needlessly put lives at risk. Given the tragedy of Tucson, it's heartening to see elected officials stand up to the gun lobby and wake up to what needs to be done to protect the public from gun violence.
    -- Colin Goddard

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    From what I heard, the bill was amended and redered useless!
    Had too many grey areas in it and would open up too many negative issues for anyone who CC'd on campus.
    I like Brewer and I dont even live in Arizona. I think it's a good move on her part to veto the bill. " The Bill got screwed by liberals", Not Brewer!

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    Regular Member Super Saiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    It's hard to make Goddard happy. Brewer apparently succeeded:


    -- Colin Goddard
    Using Goddard's logic, the Virginia Tech. massacre should have never happened because murder isn't allowed. Yeah...that worked out real well for those 32 people killed that day...
    And let's not forget about his other nugget of wisdom: It makes more sense to be defenseless when a gunman enters a classroom and starts shooting, than to be armed and put him down before he can shoot/kill anyone/everyone. I wasn't there, but I don't think Seung-Hui Cho was much in the mood to spare those who were begging for their lives that day when he went on his killing spree.
    And Goddaard is offended that I want the ability to protect and defend myself? Well I'm offended that he thinks just because he survived a shooting, that somehow makes him an expert on the subject and empowers him to legally keep me disarmed and a victim.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Actually I think the veto in this case is a good idea. In her letter she objected to the lack of definition to what a public right of way is. With ambiguity like that, it wouldn't be hard for the schools and courts to dictate policy. I remember that before Constitutional Carry, car carry was a grey area depending on who you talked to. I think with the law as it is written now has the potential to turn law abiding citizens into criminals because the law isn't clear on what areas are allowed and what constitutes a "public right of way." Besides, if you can't carry in the buildings, there isn't really a point to carrying on campus at all.

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    Does Arizona law allow for the governor to return bills to the legislature with suggested modifications prior to veto? If so I could see the possibility that the governor would use this, however, if she or her staff have watched the proceedings in the legislature and are confident that suggestions for amended wording would go ignored, then I could understand vetoing a bill that is not clear.

    Lack of clarity in bills is what gets them tied up in courts and rendered useless. If the governor has stated that her opposition is based on a lack of clarity in the law, then I'd be willing to take her at her word. She probably has the political cover to state if she didn't think people should carry on university property, but it's my understanding she didn't say that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    They'll 'get it' when an incident happens on some campus 'n nobody's armed. (as usual). 'Doesn't affect me any... i never go anywhere near the UofA (or any others). The libs made their beds... let 'em lay in 'em.
    Doesn't affect me one way or another. I carried concealed firearms on AZ college campuses for decades with no particular concern for anti-carry laws, etc. My behavior will be the same as it always has been. My personal safety trumps all.

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    As a college student myself, these rules do affect me and my safety. Although, I do live in Prescott and the percentage of people who own or carry is so high, as long as someone is not being irresponsible, just about everybody will leave you alone.

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    Regular Member rickc1962's Avatar
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    I am a very strong 2nd Amendment advocate and try to educate as many as I can, but I am not a single issue person by no means, there's the 10th Amendment, parents choice on how to raise their children, the economy, the welfare state, and probably the most important for our State, immigration.

    No one is perfect and neither is Gov. Brewer, she does make mistakes, as all of us also do, but she has advanced freedom in our State like no other has in recent history, and for the moment I will stand with her. Its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but none of us know her motivation, I would also like to see campus carry but I don't want the courts to be the deciding factor.

    As far as all those from other states criticizing her, when your own states have absolute freedom then by all means please let us know how its done, but until then, I think you all have enough on your plates to deal with.

    I am not trying to start an argument, I'm just saying, that when I see politicians in other states working hard to advance states rights, I do not criticize until I see they are in it for their own future, or the person is trying to advance a progreseve, socialist, or communist agenda.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    They'll 'get it' when an incident happens on some campus 'n nobody's armed. (as usual). 'Doesn't affect me any... i never go anywhere near the UofA (or any others). The libs made their beds... let 'em lay in 'em.
    It'll be the gun's fault and more restrictions will be needed.... Same as everywhere else when it happens.
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    Other threads in other forums support Gov. Brewer because the bill was very flawed; supposedly she's submitting her own language that isn't ambiguous.

    For those of use following along outside AZ, please: what is the current statute? And what does the proposed legislation try to fix?

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Actually I think the veto in this case is a good idea. In her letter she objected to the lack of definition to what a public right of way is. With ambiguity like that, it wouldn't be hard for the schools and courts to dictate policy. I remember that before Constitutional Carry, car carry was a grey area depending on who you talked to. I think with the law as it is written now has the potential to turn law abiding citizens into criminals because the law isn't clear on what areas are allowed and what constitutes a "public right of way."
    +1

    After the amendments, the bill became a bit ambiguous. Fred and AZCDL just got done fixing the situation dealing with the gray area of openly carried weapons in vehicles; is it really time to open the same can of worms again in regard to campus carry?

    I'd like to see campus carry pass, and I think it will come to pass, but that's not enough reason for me to support this bill as amended. I don't have much heartburn with her veto, given the stated reasons for it.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    It offends me that people who have never faced a gunman in the confined space of a classroom would think that it makes sense to allow loaded guns on campus, and even through rights of way. Gov. Brewer apparently understood the dangers of allowing guns to be transported through school and college zones, and I applaud her for rejecting this legislation that needlessly put lives at risk. Given the tragedy of Tucson, it's heartening to see elected officials stand up to the gun lobby and wake up to what needs to be done to protect the public from gun violence.
    -- Colin Goddard

    Goddard... is a coward. Dude... sometimes ya gotta cowboy up and FIGHT BACK! If you have nothing to fight back with... you're dead meat. Were guns 'allowed' at VT? NO. Oh... all those GFZ signs really did the trick didn't they? Apparently they don't teach common sense anymore. Gun Lobby? This is Arizona pogue... Get used it it or take a hike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    For those of use following along outside AZ, please: what is the current statute? And what does the proposed legislation try to fix?
    This is the law that allows educational institutions to prohibits guns on campus:

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....13&DocType=ARS

    This is the proposed law that was vetoed:

    http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument...Session_ID=102

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    Regular Member Super Saiyan's Avatar
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    Don't forget...

    It's been nearly two years since Arizona law was revised to allow CCW permit holders to carry into many establishments that serve alcohol. At the time, we heard the usual rheotirc: There will be blood in the streets, people will be drinking and shooting like in the Wild West, mixing alcohol and guns is a lethal combination, blah, blah, blah.
    Well, like I said, it's been nearly two years. The streets look pretty clean to me, don't see any blood. Where are all of the drunken, gun-wielding CCW permit holders?
    Wait...so you mean to tell me they can actually be trusted? And maybe, just maybe, they can be trusted enough to have their weapon on them while sitting in a classroom at GCC or while walking through MCC?
    I don't understand these people...

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