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Thread: A Clarification On Liquor Establishments

  1. #1
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    A Clarification On Liquor Establishments

    http://www.practicaltacticaltraining...stablishments/

    At this last weekend’s gun show, I had a gentleman come up asking me about the law concerning liquor establishments and firearms. I explained that any licensed liquor establishment (including places like Wal-Mart and Pic-Quik) are off limits without a concealed handgun license (and even then, there are limits on which places a licensee can carry).

    “Actually,” he says, “In the law it says only places licensed to dispense are off limits.”

    He then told me of some of his adventures open carrying in Albertson’s, Toucan Market and Wal-Mart. He has been escorted out of the stores several times by police, but not arrested for it. Supposedly the police stopped escorting him out when he explained his interpretation of the law that he had printed out and with him.

    NMSA 1978 30-7-3: Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages…

    His argument rests on defining ‘dispense’ as selling alcohol for consumption on premises. I told him I highly doubt a judge would interpret it that way, and more importantly I don’t feel like being a test case for a fourth degree felony. He wasn’t hearing any of it.

    So I did some digging and found this:

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises

    So, in the Liquor Control Act, a dispenser is defined as both a seller for consumption on the premises and a seller for off-premises consumption. Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Albertson’s, Pic-Quik–all of them are included in 30-7-3, and are therefore off limits to unlicensed or open carry.

    I’ve also had several people try and tell me that ‘premises’ means only the aisle where the beer is, or the area of a restaurant where the bar is…

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;

    No go. Don’t try it unless you are looking for a felony charge.

    Eventually my new friend from the gun show is going to run out of luck and get arrested for and convicted of a felony. He’s going to lose his guns and the right to own or buy a gun for life unless he’s extremely lucky and finds a governor willing to pardon him later.

  2. #2
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    I didn't think...

    ...this was an issue. In my mind, the law is clear. But, thanks for laying it out for others. Another good reason to get a CCW permit.

  3. #3
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    Practical, I would not believe this guy's stories. I always question someone's motives when they do something like that- ask for "clarification" when they seem to be very clear on their opinions and don't seem to want to listen to your explanations if they are contrary.

    I agree- let the guy get busted and learn the hard way.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    http://www.practicaltacticaltraining...stablishments/

    At this last weekend’s gun show, I had a gentleman come up asking me about the law concerning liquor establishments and firearms. I explained that any licensed liquor establishment (including places like Wal-Mart and Pic-Quik) are off limits without a concealed handgun license (and even then, there are limits on which places a licensee can carry).

    “Actually,” he says, “In the law it says only places licensed to dispense are off limits.”

    He then told me of some of his adventures open carrying in Albertson’s, Toucan Market and Wal-Mart. He has been escorted out of the stores several times by police, but not arrested for it. Supposedly the police stopped escorting him out when he explained his interpretation of the law that he had printed out and with him.

    NMSA 1978 30-7-3: Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages…

    His argument rests on defining ‘dispense’ as selling alcohol for consumption on premises. I told him I highly doubt a judge would interpret it that way, and more importantly I don’t feel like being a test case for a fourth degree felony. He wasn’t hearing any of it.

    So I did some digging and found this:

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises

    So, in the Liquor Control Act, a dispenser is defined as both a seller for consumption on the premises and a seller for off-premises consumption. Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Albertson’s, Pic-Quik–all of them are included in 30-7-3, and are therefore off limits to unlicensed or open carry.

    I’ve also had several people try and tell me that ‘premises’ means only the aisle where the beer is, or the area of a restaurant where the bar is…

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;

    No go. Don’t try it unless you are looking for a felony charge.

    Eventually my new friend from the gun show is going to run out of luck and get arrested for and convicted of a felony. He’s going to lose his guns and the right to own or buy a gun for life unless he’s extremely lucky and finds a governor willing to pardon him later.
    Actually Albertsons, Wal-Mart and other stores are considered "retailers", which according to the NMSA 1978 60-3A-3 "retailer" means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person's possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises;

    The term dispenser as seen below has two parts. The term both requires that you are permitted to both purchase as well as consume alcoholic beverages on the premises.

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises

    After review of the 30-7-3 Unlawful Carrying of a firearm in a Licensed liquor establishment, it can clearly be determined by not only citizens but Law Enforcement officeres as well that the carrying in stores such as Wal-Mart and Albertsons is permitted due to the inability to consume alcoholic beverages on there property, however it all depends on the Liquor license they are issued from the state. If the License is a dispensory then you obviously can not carry however if it is a retail license you are legally authorized to carry.

    Use this site to find out if the area you shop at is considered a dispenser.

    http://rldverification.rld.state.nm....spx?facility=Y

    NMSA 1978 30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.

    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    Last edited by nemo1980; 05-15-2012 at 12:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    Now I'm also a little unsure. The key sentence is "both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises"

    If that "and" were an "or" then Walmart, etc would definitely be a "dispenser", but since it has to meet both requirements ......

  6. #6
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    Motel rooms?

    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    http://www.practicaltacticaltraining...stablishments/

    At this last weekend’s gun show, I had a gentleman come up asking me about the law concerning liquor establishments and firearms. I explained that any licensed liquor establishment (including places like Wal-Mart and Pic-Quik) are off limits without a concealed handgun license (and even then, there are limits on which places a licensee can carry).

    “Actually,” he says, “In the law it says only places licensed to dispense are off limits.”

    He then told me of some of his adventures open carrying in Albertson’s, Toucan Market and Wal-Mart. He has been escorted out of the stores several times by police, but not arrested for it. Supposedly the police stopped escorting him out when he explained his interpretation of the law that he had printed out and with him.

    NMSA 1978 30-7-3: Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages…

    His argument rests on defining ‘dispense’ as selling alcohol for consumption on premises. I told him I highly doubt a judge would interpret it that way, and more importantly I don’t feel like being a test case for a fourth degree felony. He wasn’t hearing any of it.

    So I did some digging and found this:

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises

    So, in the Liquor Control Act, a dispenser is defined as both a seller for consumption on the premises and a seller for off-premises consumption. Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Albertson’s, Pic-Quik–all of them are included in 30-7-3, and are therefore off limits to unlicensed or open carry.

    I’ve also had several people try and tell me that ‘premises’ means only the aisle where the beer is, or the area of a restaurant where the bar is…

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;

    No go. Don’t try it unless you are looking for a felony charge.

    Eventually my new friend from the gun show is going to run out of luck and get arrested for and convicted of a felony. He’s going to lose his guns and the right to own or buy a gun for life unless he’s extremely lucky and finds a governor willing to pardon him later.
    "...'licensed premises' includes all public and PRIVATE [emph. added] rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel..."
    Does this mean that if you're staying at a motel, and have firearms in your luggage, you can't have a beer? That would seem to conflict with the principle that if you rent property, you have the rights of a homeowner, except in regard to things like modifying the structure,etc.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo1980 View Post
    <snip>
    Let me see if I can make any sense of this law...

    H. "dispenser" means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person's possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises;
    I read that with some of the bloat taken out and I get:

    H. "dispenser" means a person licensed to sell alcoholic beverages by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption off the licensed premises;
    Sounds like they're trying to suggest that both types of sellers of alcohol are subject; on-site and off-site.

    Even if you don't read it that way the "both" and "and" are irrelevant. This law was written with the intent on barring OC from places that sell alcohol. The judicial branch is tasked with ruling by their interpretation (or spirit of the law). Play semantics with the judge all you want; you're still going to jail.

    If you want the law to change (or at least be more clear) then I urge you to contact your State legislature. Testing your "both-and" theory against a judge (that probably already has case law to backup his guilty ruling) will not aid in moving forward with the cause of liberty or OC laws anywhere.
    Last edited by TravisNM; 05-27-2012 at 06:12 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by warywolfen View Post
    "...'licensed premises' includes all public and PRIVATE [emph. added] rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel..."
    Does this mean that if you're staying at a motel, and have firearms in your luggage, you can't have a beer? That would seem to conflict with the principle that if you rent property, you have the rights of a homeowner, except in regard to things like modifying the structure,etc.
    No, that's not what it means. You can have guns in your hotel room, just don't carry them into the hotel bar/restaurant if there is one.

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