Carry/Home Defense Gun

hvtopiwala said:

theres no such thing as double stack 1911 is there? cuz that would be the EXACT pistol im looking for lol

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Yes there is the Para P-14 .45 hi-cap double stack 1911 a few other manufactures make them as well, heavy pigs for carry in my opinion, i stay with the single stack 1911.

hmm ok...now i just gotta find a Para dealer in FL thats close lol

hvtopiwala said:

theres no such thing as double stack 1911 is there? cuz that would be the EXACT pistol im looking for lol

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Yes I have the Para Big Hawg. Not sure if they make them anymore but they are still available at gunbroker.com: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225400574

14+1 or 15+1 really isn't all that hard to carry. The Para is only slightly wider than a normal grip. I love almost everything about this gun but it had some feeding issues and I sent it back to the factory. Since I got it back I put 100 rounds through it and still had 3 FTF. :-( The only good news is that all 3 FTF were on the same magazine so I pulled that one out of rotation and will test without it next time. If I can get this gun to be 100% reliable it will be one of my daily carry guns. I love the accuracy, sights, grip feel, trigger (90% about 6lbs) and capacity. They recommend 300-400 break-in rounds through it though and my Colt and Springfield didn't need any break-in period.

There are other Springfield and some high end 1911's that have higher capacity too but usually I see them with target sights on. I prefer 3-dot or night sights for a carry gun vs a competition/range gun.

If you like higher capacity 45acp guns check out the FNP-45. It has been 100% reliable, low cost under $600 and feels like a Sig/H&K in your hand. It has 14/15+1 just like the Big Hawg. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225783285

Christopher said:

Yes there is the Para P-14 .45 hi-cap double stack 1911 a few other manufactures make them as well, heavy pigs for carry in my opinion, i stay with the single stack 1911.

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If you have a good belt they aren't that bad. Since the Big Hawg has a alloy frame it lightens up the gun nicely. Compared to a stainless steel frame the added capacity kind of equals out the weight.

While shooting it though you will notice more muzzle flip on the latter 7 rounds as opposed to the first 7. Of my three 1911's (Cold, Springfield, Para) I am more accurate with the Para. I sold the Colt and Springfield to finance another gun although I miss them a bit. :-(

Double Stack 1911's:

Para Ordnance makes several models, but make sure you know what trigger you're ordering because some of their guns come DAO. If you do a google search on them you'll find a whole bunch of mixed reviews that indicate some models are better than others.
Springfield Armory also makes double stack 1911s. In fact, my father has a new in box, never fired double stack Springfield 1911 that he'd like to sell. PM me if you'd like more info.

Heckler & Koch:

This would be my choice. They'll be significantly lighter than a double stack 1911 thanks to the poly frame, and they're dead reliable. I've never heard of anybody ever having a problem with an H&K.

cbpeck said:

Double Stack 1911's:

Para Ordnance makes several models, but make sure you know what trigger you're ordering because some of their guns come DAO. If you do a google search on them you'll find a whole bunch of mixed reviews that indicate some models are better than others.
Springfield Armory also makes double stack 1911s. In fact, my father has a new in box, never fired double stack Springfield 1911 that he'd like to sell. PM me if you'd like more info.

Heckler & Koch:

This would be my choice. They'll be significantly lighter than a double stack 1911 thanks to the poly frame, and they're dead reliable. I've never heard of anybody ever having a problem with an H&K.

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Yes some of the Para come with the LDA (light double action) trigger. I have heard good things about it but I decided to stick with a gun that had the standard 1911 SA trigger.

+1000 for the H&K. I have the FNP-45 and Big Hawg as my highest capacity 45acp guns but don't have a SERPA available yet for the FNP and the Big Hawg isn't 100% reliable yet so sitting on my belt right now is my H&K USP. 12+1 isn't as good as 15+1 but I know it will always work, and I have a SERPA it resides in. The USP has become my utility gun for most daily carry. My dress gun is the P220 Stainless Elite with rosewood grips.

USP: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225089051

P220: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225143146

You might consider the CZ97. It's a honkin' big pistol with a double-stack .45 ACP mag but the grip is surprisingly ergonomic. It is a favorite of competitive shooters and I certainly can see why; mine is spectacularly accurate. Right out of the box it shot 1" groups at 25 yards. The only other .45 pistol I have that will do that is a Wilson CQB Elite which cost five times as much. They have a reputation for not feeding hollow-points but that turns out to be due to the magazine. Since CZ started supplying Mec-Gar mags, that doesn't seem to come up much. I simply had the feed ramp on mine polished and it feeds anything. For several months, it was my everyday carry gun in a High Noon concealment holster. The HN holster really distributes the weight and it smooths the profile so well that I can conceal the CZ under a scrub shirt. Unfortunately, the weight started to cause my old back injury to flare up which is why I bought the Wilson. I still carry the CZ sometimes, though, and it's my go-to handgun around the house. Whatever is downrange of me when I start slingin' lead with that baby is goin' down!

Cavalryman said:

You might consider the CZ97. ....

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I had heard good things about the CZ97 and considered getting one for a bit. My chief complaint with it, the M&P, Sig P250, HK45 was that they all only had 10+1 in their design.

I was looking at higher capacity 45's and the USP is 12+1, FNP-45 14/15+1, Para Big Hawg 14/15+1. So with them already in my arsenal I decided against the CZ. BTW I also decided against the XDm 45 since it uses the same magazine as the XD 13+1. The glock and XD triggers seemed odd to me although many people love theirs.

I always thought if Papa 1911 had a baby with momma glock, it would come out a Springfield XD. Just my thought tho.

Hk usp

+ infinity on the HK USP. When I read your original post, my first thought was "Where is the USP on that list?" I have 2 USPs in .45ACP and both will eat anything from 115 grain shot shells to 230grain +P without a hicup. The recoil reduction system is very good and even younge shooters can shoot well with a "big ol 45".

The Wolfhound said:

+ infinity on the HK USP. When I read your original post, my first thought was "Where is the USP on that list?" I have 2 USPs in .45ACP and both will eat anything from 115 grain shot shells to 230grain +P without a hicup. The recoil reduction system is very good and even younge shooters can shoot well with a "big ol 45".

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I was disappointed waiting for M&P, P250, HK45 to see how many rounds they would carry and decided on a USP. I haven't regretted the decision since the USP is a great gun and meets all my needs. My daughter tried to shoot both of mine but didn't like it as much as a smaller Taurus she is practicing with so every shooter has different preferences.

Here is a little H&K Porn.

45acpForMe said:

I really like the FNP-45 but it is large so depending on your hand size you may or may not like it. If you have regular to large hands though it is fine but "feel" is totally subjective.

I prefer a properly holstered handgun to a handgun with a thumb safety. Since 1911's are single action I like a thumb safety on them and any other gun you are going to carry cocked-and-locked. One other thing is that you "don't" have to use the thumb safety if you find a gun you like that has one but whatever you do train for how you will carry it.

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When WE Fairbairn was working with the Shanghai police department nearly 100 years ago, he noted that a considerable number of officers had died from criminal gunfire while failing to deactivate the safety on their Browning handguns, which if I remember right were 1908's and 1911's. He made the move to pin the pistols thumb safeties off and decided that the grip safety was plenty for a SAO safety feature, which is exactly what I decided was the correct strategy for Browning handguns many years before I ever heard of this.

I'd also point out that I know several CPL instructors, and among the re-occurring themes is students fumbling on their thumb safeties during drills. For someone who is totally practiced and confident in their sidearm, perhaps this isn't an issue. For someone who needs to seek the help of a forum to pick their handgun, it very well might be.

I would like to begin by pointing out as previously stated that the guns mentioned so far are not hi-capacity. The amount of ammunition the magazine carries(6-30) does not make it hi-capacity if that is what the firearm comes with standard. For instance a Glock 17 comes with a 17rnd magazine, it is not hi-capacity unless I put a 33rd(non stock) magazine into it.

That being said a shotgun is going to be a much better alternative for home defense. Consider if you have neighbors or children what is the likelyhood of your handgun round penetrating multiple common building material walls? Much more likely then most shotgun rounds barring slugs of course. Here is a link that discusses your options from a professionals point of view. It also talks about the .357 sig (handgun). The upside to a shotgun vs handgun for home defense (besides wall penetration) is that simply racking the gauge is usually enough to send BGs back out where they just came in. Just my $.02

My appologies for mentioning LGs but I am concerned for the OPs neighbors:uhoh:. But if your stuck on getting a HG... FN tactical, its pre-threaded for suppressors. You can put him down long before he realizes whats going on.

DevinWKuska said:

I would like to begin by pointing out as previously stated that the guns mentioned so far are not hi-capacity. The amount of ammunition the magazine carries(6-30) does not make it hi-capacity if that is what the firearm comes with standard.....

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Point taken. I looked back and edited 3 "high" posts to be "higher" capacity. I had another two higher/highest already.

Yes a shotgun is the all around best home defense gun. I like both the remmington 870 and mossberg 590a1 tactical versions. I have to admit that my handgun is on my nightstand more often than my shotgun though. It is much easier to take my gun out of my holster and set it on my nightstand than to go into my gun locker and pull out one of my shotguns. I also have night sites on my handguns and haven't mounted any light on my shotguns.

As far as shooting through walls, either a pistol or buckshot will travel through several. 00 Buckshot is recommended for badguy penetration although other forms of buck shot will work. Birdshot doesn't penetrate enough to guarantee a high probability of attack stoppage. Having a plan and knowing where family will be is helpful. In my case I plan to be shooting in a downward position if possible to avoid injuring my neighbors.

DevinWKuska said:

... FN tactical, its pre-threaded for suppressors. You can put him down long before he realizes whats going on.

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+1 for having a tactical pistol but don't know how many will have a suppressor threaded and ready for a home invasion.

I also recommend the USP tactical (either compact or fullsize) for suppressors. I have a Sig Sauer P220 threaded barrel but the USP feels like it was made for it. The Sig funtions but not optimally.

1911's are my favorite hangun, hands down. For carry reasons, 45acp is a great choice.
Home defense, forget about hanguns period. Get yourself a 12 gauge!
Nothing is better in close ratio than a shotgun. Well except for a semiauto shotgun.

45acpForMe said:

I had heard good things about the CZ97 and considered getting one for a bit. My chief complaint with it, the M&P, Sig P250, HK45 was that they all only had 10+1 in their design.

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It's a matter of individual preference. Personally, I'll take the amazing accuracy of the CZ97 as a good trade-off for the other five rounds. The pistols you are considering are also good firearms, though.

so i went to shoot straight today, and tried a few guns out...i didnt like the trigger pull at all on the FNP-45 so that is out of the question....they didnt have any double stack Para's in stock, but i did mess a few Kimbers and i loved the trigger pull. I might just have to suck up only being able to carry 7 rounds, but w/e lol. ill have to think about this one.

Would you guys carry a 1911 as your regular carry gun or would you prefer something with more rounds in it?

I have a Stainless Kimber Pro Carry II. I have carried it before, although I carry my XD40 SC a lot more. Not because I don't trust my Kimber, but more because it's a very nice pistol and I'd rather see the wear and tear of every day carry go on my XD. When I do carry it I have a Wilson Combat mag in it (8 rds), one in the chamber and usually an extra 7 round mag in a pocket.

While it's always better to be safe than sorry, my philosophy is if I can't hit the target with my first 9 rounds, I have no business carrying my pistol in the first place. With a .45 its unlikely it would take any more than 1 or two solid hits to stop the threat.

Of course there is the chance for a multiple target threat, but with 16 rounds of good .45 hollow points, I feel pretty confident that I'd be able to handle most any situation.

If you like 1911's then why look for something else? I'd just get a 1911.

hvtopiwala said:

Would you guys carry a 1911 as your regular carry gun or would you prefer something with more rounds in it?

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Yes to both. ;-) I carry my P220 which is 8+1 but when I do I always have a spare mag or two on me. I would guess that the majority of people carrying a 45acp gun have 7/8+1 since the 1911 design is so popular. I personally started looking for higher capacity 45's when I read stories of people being shot 22 times before going down and kept seeing the hi-cap 9mm's like the XDm 19+1. I have larger hands and the added weight isn't noticeable for me so carrying a higher capacity gun was fine if I could find one that I liked and was reliable.

So get what YOU like and you will practice with it more. Buying a gun is a very personal choice, kind of like woman buying shoes. Whatever YOU decide on will make you happy because only YOU can decide what wants/needs are important to YOU. And as I always say, you don't have to own only ONE gun!!! After the first you can get others to meet different needs like CC, or shiny-dress guns for more formal carry.