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Thread: If SB234 passes what about Non-friendly businesses?

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    Question If SB234 passes what about Non-friendly businesses?

    I'm on pins and needles with all this anticipation, but what will happen if businesses go to a No Gun policy; will it not essentially cock block and nullify the bill? If even 80% of the businesses out there put up No Gun signs, then it will make it a pain in the ass to carry. I still don't see how a business can legally supersede a law or constitutional right, especially when it is in the public domain, but it obviously happens.

    I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony? I would just hate to have my weapon on me and every 3rd store I need to go into, I am made to leave it in my car were it has the potential to be stolen.

    TV

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal Velocity View Post
    I'm on pins and needles with all this anticipation, but what will happen if businesses go to a No Gun policy; will it not essentially cock block and nullify the bill? If even 80% of the businesses out there put up No Gun signs, then it will make it a pain in the ass to carry. I still don't see how a business can legally supersede a law or constitutional right, especially when it is in the public domain, but it obviously happens.

    I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony? I would just hate to have my weapon on me and every 3rd store I need to go into, I am made to leave it in my car were it has the potential to be stolen.

    TV
    Are you espousing that you are wanting to carry openly everywhere all the time? If you intend to, understand that any private property owner can ask you to leave their property for any or no reason at all and at any time. In order to keep from getting arrested for armed trespass, you would be well advised to do so.

    You have no right to make a private property owner honor your right to carry, either openly or concealed. But if the act of openly carrying is less important to you than patronizing that particular place, then conceal. It truly isn't a big deal to do so, as I assume you are doing that now. If you wish to make a political statement, then write the owner and protest, and publicize on gun forums the stores that are anti-2A.

    We did not press open carry and do all this work to get it this far for you to go out and try to force it on people on their private property. We did the work so that you could open carry at your option in public without fear of arrest for that specific act. Unfortunately, you will still encounter society's scorn, at least for a while until they get used to it. But consider, why in open carry states, is it relatively rare to see an open carrier? Perhaps it's because open carriers, despite having the right, are considerate of societal perceptions and only open carry when it's "acceptable" to do so?

    I'm just throwing this out there, to each their own!
    Rich
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I'd say passage is down to about 50/50 now, but if it does pass, nothing changes for private property owners. They can tell you to leave if they don't like the color of your hair! Something is "permissible" if it is not forbidden, so the only way you can get in trouble is if they ask you to leave and you refuse. Which would be an idiotic thing to do.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Thanks for the reply Rich!

    It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

    I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I'd say passage is down to about 50/50 now, but if it does pass, nothing changes for private property owners. They can tell you to leave if they don't like the color of your hair! Something is "permissible" if it is not forbidden, so the only way you can get in trouble is if they ask you to leave and you refuse. Which would be an idiotic thing to do.
    Oh absolutely I would leave, without hesitation, if told to.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal Velocity View Post
    I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony?
    Is it a felony to go barefoot into a place that has a "no shirt no shoes no service" sign? The answer will be the same for a "no guns" rule. You can be asked to leave and if you refuse be charged with trespass(not sure where "armed trespass" another posted used comes from.)

    ETA: Looks like there is an "armed trespass" law in FL. Same laws apply though (must be told to leave.)
    Last edited by Kingfish; 04-20-2011 at 03:29 PM.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Are you espousing that you are wanting to carry openly everywhere all the time?
    Why not? I do.

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    As far as constitutional rights are concerned, the constitution protects you from acts of government not generally from other citizens. A store owner can (and should) be able to prohibit whoever he wants from entering his private property. I don't want MY rights to be at the expense of others rights. I'll meet them in the middle. According to Guttmachers book (any gun owner in Florida without it is missing a very valuable reference) no gun signs do not carry any authority. If the owner sees you and complains just leave straight away. If they call the police to have you trespassed - just leave. If you're not there when the cops show up what are they going to do? No one other than an LEO has the power to make you hang around. As an aside, I bank at Wachovia. I really like them and always carry concealed when I go to a branch. They all have little no gun signs on the door. I will probably let someone else fight that one ( I know - I'm a p***y but you Pick yore battles right?)

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal Velocity View Post
    Thanks for the reply Rich!

    It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

    I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know.
    Signs have no force of law in Florida, but if you see a sign you should not openly carry.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Why not? I do.
    I support you. It's important that such be normalized.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinscot View Post
    As an aside, I bank at Wachovia. I really like them and always carry concealed when I go to a branch. They all have little no gun signs on the door.
    When Wells Fargo converts the branches (WF bought Wachovia), the signs will come down. WF, as far as I have seen is neutral on carry.

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    Thumbs up

    WOW great info guys, glad I asked! I was under the impression that if it was posted "Don't Do This" then it made it illegal to do what ever said sign advised you not to do, lol...

    Thanks guys!

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal Velocity View Post
    WOW great info guys, glad I asked! I was under the impression that if it was posted "Don't Do This" then it made it illegal to do what ever said sign advised you not to do, lol...

    Thanks guys!
    Any business that posts a sign I will not go into. Whether open, concealed or not armed, I just wont avail myself of their services. If its is 80% of the businesses then I will do my best to patronize the other 20%. Different states have different laws but Florida is not one that a sign carries any legal weight at all. Only if you are asked to leave and refuse do you run into trouble. NC is a different story. If the NC business post a sign and you enter with a concealed or open carry weapon you are immediately in violation of the law.

    All this posted as to the best of my knowledge. Educate me if Im wrong.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal Velocity View Post
    Thanks for the reply Rich!

    It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

    I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know.
    No problem sir! I sometimes read between the lines and infer concepts that may not be so!
    Rich
    MSgt, USAF Ret.
    Executive Director
    Florida Carry, Inc.
    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
    _____________________________________
    Want to do something about your gun rights?
    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

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    "Are you espousing that you are wanting to carry openly everywhere all the time? If you intend to, understand that any private property owner can ask you to leave their property for any or no reason at all and at any time. In order to keep from getting arrested for armed trespass, you would be well advised to do so.

    You have no right to make a private property owner honor your right to carry, either openly or concealed. But if the act of openly carrying is less important to you than patronizing that particular place, then conceal. It truly isn't a big deal to do so, as I assume you are doing that now. If you wish to make a political statement, then write the owner and protest, and publicize on gun forums the stores that are anti-2A."

    ^^EXACTLY. 100%.

    That said, if X number of biz establishments choose to take a NO GUNs approach, then there's always the simplest of responses to this: deny them the buisiness.
    If enough pro-gun/pro-OC folks make an effort to deprive such establishments of the profits of our purchasing products/services from them, they'll eventually come around.
    Yes, it may be inconvenient. But screw it. Would you rather give your $$ to some ******* who will deny you your rights,or support a local/small biz establishment instead, who will support your rights?
    Even in the smallest of towns, there's usually a competing biz establishment for most things. Go do biz with the pros- rather than the anti's, and see how quick things turn around.

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