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If SB234 passes what about Non-friendly businesses?

Terminal Velocity

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
70
Location
JAX
I'm on pins and needles with all this anticipation, but what will happen if businesses go to a No Gun policy; will it not essentially cock block and nullify the bill? If even 80% of the businesses out there put up No Gun signs, then it will make it a pain in the ass to carry. I still don't see how a business can legally supersede a law or constitutional right, especially when it is in the public domain, but it obviously happens.

I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony? I would just hate to have my weapon on me and every 3rd store I need to go into, I am made to leave it in my car were it has the potential to be stolen.

TV
 

Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
I'm on pins and needles with all this anticipation, but what will happen if businesses go to a No Gun policy; will it not essentially cock block and nullify the bill? If even 80% of the businesses out there put up No Gun signs, then it will make it a pain in the ass to carry. I still don't see how a business can legally supersede a law or constitutional right, especially when it is in the public domain, but it obviously happens.

I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony? I would just hate to have my weapon on me and every 3rd store I need to go into, I am made to leave it in my car were it has the potential to be stolen.

TV

Are you espousing that you are wanting to carry openly everywhere all the time? If you intend to, understand that any private property owner can ask you to leave their property for any or no reason at all and at any time. In order to keep from getting arrested for armed trespass, you would be well advised to do so.

You have no right to make a private property owner honor your right to carry, either openly or concealed. But if the act of openly carrying is less important to you than patronizing that particular place, then conceal. It truly isn't a big deal to do so, as I assume you are doing that now. If you wish to make a political statement, then write the owner and protest, and publicize on gun forums the stores that are anti-2A.

We did not press open carry and do all this work to get it this far for you to go out and try to force it on people on their private property. We did the work so that you could open carry at your option in public without fear of arrest for that specific act. Unfortunately, you will still encounter society's scorn, at least for a while until they get used to it. But consider, why in open carry states, is it relatively rare to see an open carrier? Perhaps it's because open carriers, despite having the right, are considerate of societal perceptions and only open carry when it's "acceptable" to do so?

I'm just throwing this out there, to each their own!
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
I'd say passage is down to about 50/50 now, but if it does pass, nothing changes for private property owners. They can tell you to leave if they don't like the color of your hair! Something is "permissible" if it is not forbidden, so the only way you can get in trouble is if they ask you to leave and you refuse. Which would be an idiotic thing to do.
 

Terminal Velocity

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
70
Location
JAX
Thanks for the reply Rich!

It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry :rolleyes: My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know. ;)
 

Terminal Velocity

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
70
Location
JAX
I'd say passage is down to about 50/50 now, but if it does pass, nothing changes for private property owners. They can tell you to leave if they don't like the color of your hair! Something is "permissible" if it is not forbidden, so the only way you can get in trouble is if they ask you to leave and you refuse. Which would be an idiotic thing to do.

Oh absolutely I would leave, without hesitation, if told to.
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
I'm not well versed with the law when it comes to carrying a gun into a Non-Friendly environment (I'm not referring to the obvious - Banks, Bars, Movies, etc.); is it a felony?
Is it a felony to go barefoot into a place that has a "no shirt no shoes no service" sign? The answer will be the same for a "no guns" rule. You can be asked to leave and if you refuse be charged with trespass(not sure where "armed trespass" another posted used comes from.)

ETA: Looks like there is an "armed trespass" law in FL. Same laws apply though (must be told to leave.)
 
Last edited:

flyinscot

New member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
3
Location
Kissimmee, FL
As far as constitutional rights are concerned, the constitution protects you from acts of government not generally from other citizens. A store owner can (and should) be able to prohibit whoever he wants from entering his private property. I don't want MY rights to be at the expense of others rights. I'll meet them in the middle. According to Guttmachers book (any gun owner in Florida without it is missing a very valuable reference) no gun signs do not carry any authority. If the owner sees you and complains just leave straight away. If they call the police to have you trespassed - just leave. If you're not there when the cops show up what are they going to do? No one other than an LEO has the power to make you hang around. As an aside, I bank at Wachovia. I really like them and always carry concealed when I go to a branch. They all have little no gun signs on the door. I will probably let someone else fight that one ( I know - I'm a p***y but you Pick yore battles right?)
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Thanks for the reply Rich!

It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry :rolleyes: My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know. ;)

Signs have no force of law in Florida, but if you see a sign you should not openly carry.
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
As an aside, I bank at Wachovia. I really like them and always carry concealed when I go to a branch. They all have little no gun signs on the door.
When Wells Fargo converts the branches (WF bought Wachovia), the signs will come down. WF, as far as I have seen is neutral on carry.
 

Terminal Velocity

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
70
Location
JAX
WOW great info guys, glad I asked! I was under the impression that if it was posted "Don't Do This" then it made it illegal to do what ever said sign advised you not to do, lol...

Thanks guys!
 

firedog

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
156
Location
FL/NC
WOW great info guys, glad I asked! I was under the impression that if it was posted "Don't Do This" then it made it illegal to do what ever said sign advised you not to do, lol...

Thanks guys!
Any business that posts a sign I will not go into. Whether open, concealed or not armed, I just won’t avail myself of their services. If it’s is 80% of the businesses then I will do my best to patronize the other 20%. Different states have different laws but Florida is not one that a sign carries any legal weight at all. Only if you are asked to leave and refuse do you run into trouble. NC is a different story. If the NC business post a sign and you enter with a concealed or open carry weapon you are immediately in violation of the law.

All this posted as to the best of my knowledge. Educate me if I’m wrong.
 

Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
Thanks for the reply Rich!

It seems that I misrepresented my concerns. I don't plan to blatantly Open Carry to the full extent of the bill, in fact, I like the bill for the original intentions it was made - accidental flagging. No what I am concerned about is businesses getting all worried and speculating that there will be issues and simply post NO GUNS signs.... basically jumping the proverbial gun, if you will. You see how speculating is screwing us at the gas pump and we can already see what speculation is doing to those that are uneducated about gun carry. I mean look at all the misinformed, misguided and out right hostel nah Sayers that are voicing their options on how this will turn the state into the Wild Wild West, even though 98% of the country is Open Carry :rolleyes: My concern is that businesses will do the same thing and post signs to "try and prevent something."

I hope I got my idea across, if not please let me know. ;)

No problem sir! I sometimes read between the lines and infer concepts that may not be so!
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
"Are you espousing that you are wanting to carry openly everywhere all the time? If you intend to, understand that any private property owner can ask you to leave their property for any or no reason at all and at any time. In order to keep from getting arrested for armed trespass, you would be well advised to do so.

You have no right to make a private property owner honor your right to carry, either openly or concealed. But if the act of openly carrying is less important to you than patronizing that particular place, then conceal. It truly isn't a big deal to do so, as I assume you are doing that now. If you wish to make a political statement, then write the owner and protest, and publicize on gun forums the stores that are anti-2A."

^^EXACTLY. 100%.

That said, if X number of biz establishments choose to take a NO GUNs approach, then there's always the simplest of responses to this: deny them the buisiness.
If enough pro-gun/pro-OC folks make an effort to deprive such establishments of the profits of our purchasing products/services from them, they'll eventually come around.
Yes, it may be inconvenient. But screw it. Would you rather give your $$ to some jackass who will deny you your rights,or support a local/small biz establishment instead, who will support your rights?
Even in the smallest of towns, there's usually a competing biz establishment for most things. Go do biz with the pros- rather than the anti's, and see how quick things turn around.
 
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