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Thread: Terry "Burn the Koran" Jones will be 'packing' during his Dearborn protest Friday

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    Terry "Burn the Koran" Jones will be 'packing' during his Dearborn protest Friday

    Terry Jones, Koran-burning pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, will pack pistol at next rally

    Koran-burning preacher Terry Jones says he'll demonstrate outside a Michigan mosque no matter what this Friday - and he plans to pack a pistol for the protest.

    "I have a .40-caliber semi-automatic and a concealed license permit, and I will be wearing that," the fundamentalist Florida preacher told Reuters.

    "There will be no provocative actions from us," he continued. "We are coming in peace."
    Uh-oh:

    Dearborn-denies-permit--says-Quran-burning-minister-could-face-arrest

    Dearborn denied a permit Wednesday for Quran-burning Pastor Terry Jones' planned protest outside the Islamic Center of America on Good Friday.

    Jones could be arrested if he goes ahead with the protest outside the mosque without a permit, said city spokeswoman Mary Laundroche. She added that the permit had been denied for "public safety reasons."

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    So people who protest funerals can get permits even though they are basically harassing emotionally distraught people, but someone can't protest outside of a mosque? That seems pretty hypocritical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    So people who protest funerals can get permits even though they are basically harassing emotionally distraught people, but someone can't protest outside of a mosque? That seems pretty hypocritical.
    And unconstitutional.

    The 1st Amendment is pretty clear that NO LAW shall interefere with the right to assemble and the 14th Amendment enforces said right on state governments.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The Dearborn police have a multi generational tradition of acting crazy. Considering that, and the fact that Dearborn has the largest middle eastern born population in the USA, this is just a bit crazy. It rather reminds me of in the 70's when Coleman Young was asked by the KKK for permission to march through Detroit, except Coleman encouraged them to come, and they opted not to since they'd have probably been massacred.

    To say the least, middle eastern people are going to see things differently than most other US residents. This is the kind of thing where I respect ones right to be a fool, but it's the sort of thing you'd have to be certifiably nuts to want to do.
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    This has the potential to be VERY bad for carriers, both OC and CC. It would be nice if he would keep his nutty self in his church in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highline View Post
    And unconstitutional.

    The 1st Amendment is pretty clear that NO LAW shall interefere with the right to assemble and the 14th Amendment enforces said right on state governments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The Dearborn police have a multi generational tradition of acting crazy. Considering that, and the fact that Dearborn has the largest middle eastern born population in the USA, this is just a bit crazy. It rather reminds me of in the 70's when Coleman Young was asked by the KKK for permission to march through Detroit, except Coleman encouraged them to come, and they opted not to since they'd have probably been massacred.

    To say the least, middle eastern people are going to see things differently than most other US residents. This is the kind of thing where I respect ones right to be a fool, but it's the sort of thing you'd have to be certifiably nuts to want to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    This has the potential to be VERY bad for carriers, both OC and CC. It would be nice if he would keep his nutty self in his church in Florida.
    He has the right, and so we can not argue against it. Otherwise we can't argue our right granted by 2A. I say let him do it and to be honest i want it to, just so i can see how fare the LEOs there go and see how they stomp on said right.

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    We should react to this guy in the very way that most Muslims don't, which is why the whole religion gets a bad name from the actions of violent Muslim groups. That is to say that we should strongly denounce what this bigot does.

    Burning the Koran was stupid and antagonistic.

    Protesting outside a mosque is stupid and antagonistic, especially while armed.

    I denounce him and his actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We should react to this guy in the very way that most Muslims don't, which is why the whole religion gets a bad name from the actions of violent Muslim groups. That is to say that we should strongly denounce what this bigot does.

    Burning the Koran was stupid and antagonistic.

    Protesting outside a mosque is stupid and antagonistic, especially while armed.

    I denounce him and his actions.

    same here, I can't condone this type of ignorance in any way, yet I guess I'm conflicted because I feel he does have the right to do it.


    But just because you have the right to do something, does it mean you SHOULD do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    same here, I can't condone this type of ignorance in any way, yet I guess I'm conflicted because I feel he does have the right to do it.


    But just because you have the right to do something, does it mean you SHOULD do it?
    But isn't that the argument that some anti-gun folks use? It's you're right to OC, but it doesn't mean you should. "You're scarring the children and people are concerned."

    And what is some of your responses? "It's not my problem they are scared. If people have a problem, well it's their problem."

    BTW, I support OC or I wouldn't be here.
    Just playing devils advocate here.

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_hustleman View Post
    same here, I can't condone this type of ignorance in any way, yet I guess I'm conflicted because I feel he does have the right to do it.


    But just because you have the right to do something, does it mean you SHOULD do it?
    Of course you should! If you feel what you're doing is correct and worth the cost of doing it.

    The world's shock and outrage at burning a holy book is so much flatulence. I generally care not a whit either way. Everyone's welcome to their own follies.

    Unless of course you attempt to coerce me with screaming mobs and religious proclamations, then I'll be running for matches and lighter fluid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brion View Post
    But isn't that the argument that some anti-gun folks use? It's you're right to OC, but it doesn't mean you should. "You're scarring the children and people are concerned."

    And what is some of your responses? "It's not my problem they are scared. If people have a problem, well it's their problem."

    BTW, I support OC or I wouldn't be here.
    Just playing devils advocate here.
    Some things are legally right and morally right.
    Some things are legally right and morally wrong (as can be established by rational argument).
    Some things are legally right, morally right, but disliked by some, making it, in their opinion, morally wrong (no rational argument can support their misdirected POV). They can get stuffed.

    Jones' actions qualify for the second. He is acting out of bigotry, ignorance, and hate.

    Lawful OC is merely a mode of self-defense and is arguably the reason for the right! Therefore, lawful OC qualifies for the first and is, because of bigotry, ignorance, and hate, also an example of the third.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    So people who protest funerals can get permits even though they are basically harassing emotionally distraught people, but someone can't protest outside of a mosque? That seems pretty hypocritical.
    Well, president osama may be in attendence...

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We should react to this guy in the very way that most Muslims don't, which is why the whole religion gets a bad name from the actions of violent Muslim groups. That is to say that we should strongly denounce what this bigot does.

    Burning the Koran was stupid and antagonistic.

    Protesting outside a mosque is stupid and antagonistic, especially while armed.

    I denounce him and his actions.
    Why? While I may not agree with him philosophically, I defend his Constitutional rights to do exactly what he proposes. If we are so vocal in our defense of the 2nd--and 4th Amendments, how the hell can we ignore the 1st?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Some things are legally right and morally right.
    Some things are legally right and morally wrong (as can be established by rational argument).
    Some things are legally right, morally right, but disliked by some, making it, in their opinion, morally wrong (no rational argument can support their misdirected POV). They can get stuffed.

    Jones' actions qualify for the second. He is acting out of bigotry, ignorance, and hate.

    Lawful OC is merely a mode of self-defense and is arguably the reason for the right! Therefore, lawful OC qualifies for the first and is, because of bigotry, ignorance, and hate, also an example of the third.
    So what you are saying is, as long as you are with the majority of people that have the opinion that he is moraly wrong, then to hell with the minority and his right? And that you can develop in your own mind a "rational argument" then we can say he shouldn't do this?

    Because I'll argue that the term "rational argument" is an opinion in and of it's self. And I'll also argue that OC advocates compared to the general population are a minority. I don't know where we stand among people that are anti-OC. But I might go as far as to say that if you lined up everyone that believe in OC and lined up everyone that is truly anti-OC that do or do not speak out against it, the anti-OC might be a longer line.

    So as long as I'm not in a minority group I have nothing to fear I can do what I want?

    Let's trade 1 tyrant 1000 miles away vs. 1000 tyrants 1 mile away?

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    So people who protest funerals can get permits even though they are basically harassing emotionally distraught people, but someone can't protest outside of a mosque? That seems pretty hypocritical.
    Damn good point, I would hope that Jones' lawyer is ready to exploit that court ruling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    This has the potential to be VERY bad for carriers, both OC and CC. It would be nice if he would keep his nutty self in his church in Florida.
    I disagree 100%. I couldn't think of a more just cause for self-defense. Exercising your 1st amendment rights and if attacked exercising your 2nd Amendment rights. God Speed Pastor Jones!

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    ACLU agrees

    Quote Originally Posted by Highline View Post
    And unconstitutional.

    The 1st Amendment is pretty clear that NO LAW shall interefere with the right to assemble and the 14th Amendment enforces said right on state governments.
    Terry Jones refuses to pay bond; jury to decide Friday about Dearborn rally bid

    Florida pastor Terry Jones will face a jury trial on Friday after a Dearborn judge sided with Wayne County prosecutors and Dearborn police who were trying to make him pay a bond in order to rally in Dearborn.

    ...

    Earlier, the ACLU of Michigan and others slammed local authorities for trying to deny Jones the right to protest outside the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn.

    The ACLU said that authorities are denying Jones’ Constitutional rights.

    The government should “not impinge on a person’s right to protest, even when their speech is as distasteful and offensive as Rev. Jones’ is,” said Rana Elmir, communications director for the Michigan ACLU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brion View Post
    He has the right, and so we can not argue against it. Otherwise we can't argue our right granted by 2A. I say let him do it and to be honest i want it to, just so i can see how fare the LEOs there go and see how they stomp on said right.
    Oh I'm not arguing with his right to do it. I couldn't care less as a matter of fact. I'm just pointing out that he's taking his life into his own hands and endangering it. People have been shot for a lot less in Dearborn. A comparable thing would be to walk around a particularly bad part of LA with a shirt that says "I hate ni****s" while shouting "I hated Tupac, he deserved to die!"

    To put it another way, the results would probably be almost as pleasant as sticking your wiener in a hornets nest. From a civil rights standpoint there is nothing objectionable. From a sense God gave a hamster standpoint, it's a bad idea.
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    I completely disagree with his burning of the koran, it's an ignorant stupid thing to do but I defend his right to do it.

    That he want to OC while doing it is fine with me. There are A-holes in all walks of life and organizations. I know plenty of A-holes that OC......sometimes I'm one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander
    he's taking his life into his own hands and endangering it
    I would argue that he's also endangering the people who will be around him, who (since he's announced this & gotten publicity) will probably include police trying futilely to prevent violence while he does his best to stir it up.

    From a civil rights standpoint there is nothing objectionable.
    From a "sense God gave a hamster" standpoint, it's a bad idea.
    LOL!!! I usually say 'kumquat' instead of 'hampster', but same idea.
    And I agree on the rest.

    If he'd shown up with no fanfare or publicity, stayed on public property, done his book burning, yelled his slurs, and gone away, there wouldn't be a problem. Free exercise of civil rights. (Though is there an ordinance about open burning?)

    But he wanted to turn it into a parade or gathering or demonstration or some such, and got publicity because that gathering was deemed not in the best interest of the public because of its potential for violence (also a good reason to turn away the KKK), so the permit was denied.

    On another topic, I wonder if he knows that he can't carry concealed with his out of state permit?
    He has to carry openly in MI, and for that he needs to have his FL permit.
    Could solve the problem right as he gets out of his car & starts unloading stuff - arrest him for carrying a concealed weapon without a license.

    If I were closer & available whenever he's going to pull his little stunt, I'd be there with gun on demonstating against his hate. The interfaith coalition in those parts needs to get its act together and get a wide variety and large number of people out to counter his message of hate.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 04-22-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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    Well I completely agree with his burning of the Quran. It's an ignorant hate-filled book written by a sick pedophile.

    My response and others is why John and Mike want to avoid going too far off topic.

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    Here's my thoughts...

    As to the Koran burning, I agree that he has the right, but I disagree that he should have done it if only because it will turn fence sitters into supporting / joining radical Muslim extremists, making it that much harder for our troops. (note, I'm against any type of extremists).

    But here's a question for those who protested his burning of the Koran by rioting in the streets and burning homes and stores... did not those homes & stores most likely contain at lease one or more Korans. So.... it's only offensive to burn the Koran when done by infidels, or do you take responsibility for the same offense?

    My other question... if I download a .doc file of the Koran and then later delete it am I guilty of the same offense? Will I get a fatwā like Salman Rushdie or the Danish cartoonist?

    It's not the book, it's what's in the book... the words, meanings, and lessons that give people something to believe in and aspire to, whether the Bible or the Koran or some other faith.

    You have the right to your own faith or religion, as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's beliefs and rights.

    I'm Agnostic... I'll figure out the afterlife when I get there. Until then I try to live with personal honor, for my greatness is reflected in my little girl's eyes looking up to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Why? While I may not agree with him philosophically, I defend his Constitutional rights to do exactly what he proposes. If we are so vocal in our defense of the 2nd--and 4th Amendments, how the hell can we ignore the 1st?
    Nowhere did I dispute his right to do what he does. Please don't imply that I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brion View Post
    So what you are saying is, as long as you are with the majority of people that have the opinion that he is moraly wrong, then to hell with the minority and his right?...
    I hate posts that start with, "So what you are saying is..."

    NO. What I am saying is what I said and bears no resemblence to the tripe you tried to attribute to me.

    Moving on until you stop putting words in my mouth.

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    He absolutely has the right to do it and pack heat while he is at it. Do I agree with his actions? No. Does he have the right? Yes.

    Funeral protestors? Yup. They got the right. I hope they keep doing it so eventually a group of fed up people will open a can of whoop *** on them.

    But isn't that the argument that some anti-gun folks use? It's you're right to OC, but it doesn't mean you should. "You're scarring the children and people are concerned."
    Just because you have the right doesn't mean you should abuse the right. Open Carrying is not ABUSING the right. It is exercising the same right with out a cloth covering it.

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