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Thread: CADL v MOC Update - ANOTHER Hearing Date (OC Anywhere in MI = Crime! - so CADL Wants)

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Exclamation CADL v MOC Update - ANOTHER Hearing Date (OC Anywhere in MI = Crime! - so CADL Wants)

    A thread on MGO and MOC no one will want to miss!

    Quote Originally Posted by esq_stu
    CADL has filed a motion for Summary Disposition with the court. They are seeking a judgment even before the June hearing on the issues of preemption and brandishing. They want a ruling before the June hearing stating that:

    1) The library is not preempted from regulating firearms; and
    2) Open carry is brandishing as a matter of law under (MCL 750.234e (brandishing a firearm in public)).

    The remaining issue at the June hearing would then focus mainly on the issue of whether the library is a "weapon free school zone." At the June hearing CADL will need to prove it's libraries are schools.

    Needless to say, counsel for MOC and MGO disagree with these positions and we'll be prepared to respond. I will post a copy of the motion and brief as soon as I can get it scanned.

    The hearing on CADL's motion is scheduled for Wednesday, May 25, 2011 at 2:30 p.m.
    WHEREFORE, Plantiff CADL request that this honorable Court:
    ....
    B. Determine that the open carrying of weapons by Defendants violates MCL 750.234e;
    ...
    D. Grant Plaintiff CADL fees and costs in bringing this action, including reasonable attorney fees; and...
    1. Interesting -- only the open carry of firearms by the "Defendants" (strange, I only see one name on the case, MOC, and as we discussed MOC is only a organization and not a real person and as such can't carry a paperclip, no less a handgun). Since there is only one Defendant listed on the top of the case, why say "Defendants"? Maybe they need grammar lessons?
    2. It seems the DA's of Michigan (at least in Ingham County) won't have to try a case to make Open Carry illegal, CADL will do their dirty work for them. If the judge so declares, LPD and Ingham County Sheriff could start arresting people for Open Carry...and Stuart Dunning (Ingham County DA) would have case law when seeking a conviction.

    A few thoughts:
    1. This is a fight we must win or possibly kiss open carry goodbye in Michigan.
    2. This judge is scary.
    3. If we lose, we must appeal (or kiss OC in MI Goodbye). This will not be inexpensive.
    4. If they win and we don't appeal, they want money out of MOC (and MGO if they join them?) anyhow (part "D" of their Prayer)!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
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    Great. How can a judge just blow off the constitution like that?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Great. How can a judge just blow off the constitution like that?
    Welcome to Judicial Activism - 101.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    What about the lack of a definition of brandishing, wouldn't this be the end of any charge against any OCer?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    What about the lack of a definition of brandishing, wouldn't this be the end of any charge against any OCer?
    Not if they stand before a Liberal Activist judge.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    They said "Defendants" am I to assume that pertains to ALL OCers statewide? Even though you accurately stated that MOC is not a person.

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    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
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    WOW THE balls on that mentally incompetent person Brandishing is defined through out history as not mere possession

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckinchico View Post
    WOW THE balls on that mentally incompetent person Brandishing is defined through out history as not mere possession
    Indeed! Since I've not seen you're face around here before, I should plug that MOC Has a Legal Fund. Every dollar or five helps us win this case.

    Michigan Open Carry Inc. will need donations to pay for our legal defense of the temporary restraining order issued against us and our members(see other thread for details). Per legal counsel, a separate legal fund should not be created. All donations to MOC for this endeavor are much appreciated. A selfless MOC member has made a generous offer of $1000 in matching funds for the first $1000 donated. MOC has a PayPal page/account set up for electronic/credit card donations. There is a line which asks for "Purpose", please indicate "Legal Defense" and we will purpose those funds directly towards that end. Checks can also be sent to our PO box, please write "Legal Defense" in the notes section. Thank you in advance for your support.


    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=PDWLSZR4ANB5U


    Michigan Open Carry
    PO Box 8326
    Eastpointe, MI 48021
    Last edited by TheQ; 04-21-2011 at 11:54 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    This is not now,, and never has been an MOC, or MGO or OCDO thing, this is an OC thing. Now that OC is threatened, it is no longer an OC/ CC thing either, a dedicated CCer could easily be charged if this goes through, even if he/she was unaware that the piece came uncovered, even briefly.

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    How soon could this go down? And would we have to CC until the appeals case is won?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    From the Michigan Constitution......
    Right to bear arms.

    13. Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...tution1835.htm

    I am 18 and am not old enough to get a Michigan CPL so the only LEGAL way for me to carry is openly. If this RIGHT is taken away from me they had better be willing to allow me to get a CPL. If not, I would say in Michigan, I am no longer considered a "person".
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    They dont give a rats @$$ about our rights. If they did, there would be no 234d, 237a or 425o.

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    So by the Cadl interpitation there will no longer be any armed guards,no armed money transport, no armed service men and more I am sure I can't think of. They would be illegal because Mcl 750.234e only allows open carry be peace officers while on the job.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    even if the judge finds OC to be brandishing, i will continue to OC
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Me too. Sometimes you just have to make a stand.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    I am beyond words. IANAL but I can't possibly see how ANY of this hogwash can stand and how they can want to MOVE it up...

    This is such a TEXTBOOK case of legislating form the bench.


    SHE IS GOING TO -COMPLETELY- GO AGAINST MICHIGAN LAW AND THE US CONSTITUTION FROM THE BENCH.... going around legislature... going around the people....

    Wow... seriously. Just wow.

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    Maybe its time to call in these folks?


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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Now I'm pissed!

    I am currently tapped out helping Skidmark (see VA) and Mark (see PA) but it looks like it is time to dig deep for Michigan now!

    Now, the rest of y'all behave and be good little slaves, I am not a wealthy man! /sarc

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    even if the judge finds OC to be brandishing, i will continue to OC
    I too will continue to exercise Article 1 Sec. 6.
    Precedent is set by the Appeals Court and the Supreme Court,not by any lower court,as I understand it!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  20. #20
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    I'm glad you guys got some bigger grapes than me.... if Judge Aqualung says it's a no-go... I can't risk the trouble...

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Ding! Ding! Give that man a prize!



    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 04-22-2011 at 05:51 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    I will continue to oc regardless of what the judge says.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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