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Thread: This Is How You Handle A Negative Police Interaction While Carrying...

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    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    This Is How You Handle A Negative Police Interaction While Carrying...

    Last year I was in my buddies truck and we were on our way to get something to eat. I had a concealed weapon on my person as that is the only way to lawfully carry in this state currently.

    By buddy was rather aggressive about making the left turn light and we got pulled over, I was a passenger. Sadly my buddy does not know how to effectively interact with law enforcement and we had a really young deputy sheriff. When asked if he had anything illegal in the truck my buddy replied "I have some swords behind the seat" (he is a practicing martial artist). This is of course the wrong answer. Swords aren't illegal and the deputy isn't interested in swords. The correct answer is of course "there is nothing illegal in the vehicle" but it is too late for that now. The problem is real criminals often admit to something small or something that isn't illegal to mask why they might be nervous because there is in fact something very illegal and they are about to be discovered.

    So now we have a suspicious deputy. To make matter worse I start laughing because I know where this is going. He of course asks me why I am laughing and I know there is no good answer.

    So he asks to see my ID and I hand it over along with my CCW permit.

    He then begins to reprimand me about how I am "required by law" to immediately notify any law enforcement officer that I have a concealed weapon as a condition of my license. This is of course completely untrue, not to mention a very bad idea, but you simply can't win a debate with a uniformed officer on the side of the road who "thinks" he is right.

    I tried to calmly explain he was mistaken but it quickly became an obvious case of "Me cop - you civilian - Me right - You wrong."

    So rather than start some **** with a young and somewhat nervous rookie who was making all kinds of mistakes I just let it go for the time being.

    The actual statute in question is 790.06

    The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

    And with this statute I fully complied when I presented my DL and CCW to the deputy when asked.

    The next day I spoke to his shift sgt. about his mistaken understanding of the statute. We both agreed to could be a very bad idea to blurt out "I have a gun" upon first contact with a LEO. When then covered other issues such as his taking of my firearm without consent. His muzzle sweeping of me with my firearm when he removed it. And a few other things the deputy did because he believed it was within the law for him to do so that could have been disastrous with anyone who wasn't trying to be a "nice guy."

    I also explained to the shift sergeant that I wasn't looking to sue, and I wasn't trying to get anybody in trouble nor was I trying to get even with a cop. I told him I simply wanted to bring the issue to his attention so that somebody could provide the deputy with the correct information concerning the laws he is tasked with enforcing.

    As a result the entire agency underwent a procedural review related to dealing with individuals licensed to carry firearms. Not only was the deputy in question advised of the actual statutes and the proper way to deal with a person licensed to be carrying a concealed weapon, every deputy was provided this information and the proper procedures reviewed.

    Certainly a much better outcome then arguing your way into an arrest for disorderly conduct or some other "I may not be right, but I can still arrest you for something else" offense.
    Last edited by SteyrAUG; 04-22-2011 at 01:58 AM.
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    Regular Member SGB's Avatar
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    A couple of things, as a passenger one has no duty to provide ID. By statute you only have to provide your concealed carry license when specifically asked by an LEO for it and the only penalty for failure to do so as has been stated is a $25 administrative fine. However once the LEO knows that you're armed the Courts have consistently ruled that the LEO may take custody of the firearm for Officer Safety for the duration of the contact.

    I do agree that much of nonsense that occurred would have been prevented if the driver had simply answered that he had nothing illegal in the vehicle.
    Last edited by SGB; 04-22-2011 at 04:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    I do agree that much of nonsense that occurred would have been prevented if the driver had simply answered that he had nothing illegal in the vehicle.
    ...or driven like he had some sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    A couple of things, as a passenger one has no duty to provide ID. By statute you only have to provide your concealed carry license when specifically asked by an LEO for it and the only penalty for failure to do so as has been stated is a $25 administrative fine. However once the LEO knows that you're armed the Courts have consistently ruled that the LEO may take custody of the firearm for Officer Safety for the duration of the contact.
    I do agree that much of nonsense that occurred would have been prevented if the driver had simply answered that he had nothing illegal in the vehicle.
    State Dependant in bold.

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    SteyrAUG, I must applaud how you handled the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    ...as a passenger one has no duty to provide ID. By statute you only have to provide your concealed carry license when specifically asked by an LEO for it and the only penalty for failure to do so as has been stated is a $25 administrative fine...
    The OP cited the code. Unless he totally misquoted it, he does have to provide ID with the license.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    A couple of things, as a passenger one has no duty to provide ID. By statute you only have to provide your concealed carry license when specifically asked by an LEO for it and the only penalty for failure to do so as has been stated is a $25 administrative fine. However once the LEO knows that you're armed the Courts have consistently ruled that the LEO may take custody of the firearm for Officer Safety for the duration of the contact.

    I do agree that much of nonsense that occurred would have been prevented if the driver had simply answered that he had nothing illegal in the vehicle.

    He invoked the "You aren't wearing a seat belt so if you don't want to provide ID I can just give you a ticket" clause. I had taken off my seat belt as we pulled over so that I could more easily access my ID. But I wasn't going to waste time telling him that, he would have found a way and you can't win on the side of the road.

    As for removing the firearm, if he had asked for it I would have complied. The problem is he reached in the window without notice and simply removed it, and in the process muzzle swept me completely. I also had to override an initial reaction to protect my weapon when he reached for it which was the result of years of weapons retention practice. Had I not been on my toes I could have responded without thinking and it would have been very bad.

    99% of LE in this state have a "don't show me yours and I won't show you mine" policy for lawfully armed citizens during a simple traffic stop and I think this is generally the safest way to go for all parties. They simply want your hands on the wheel or dash and to keep them there, I think that is probably the best way to go.
    Last edited by SteyrAUG; 04-22-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is what your buddy did illegal? Did he violate a traffic ordinance? Was the stop legal in your opinion? (Same question asked three different ways.)

    Keep an eye and ear out to see if the "review" worked. Get back to us one way or the other. Positive encounters are just as important to pass along as negative encounters.

    Good post.

    +1 to you Sir.
    The left turn arrow was "orange."

    Not a huge violation, but the deputy was within his rights to pull us over for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    He invoked the "You aren't wearing a seat belt so if you don't want to provide ID I can just give you a ticket" clause. I had taken off my seat belt as we pulled over so that I could more easily access my ID. But I wasn't going to waste time telling him that, he would have found a way and you can't win on the side of the road.

    As for removing the firearm, if he had asked for it I would have complied. The problem is he reached in the window without notice and simply removed it, and in the process muzzle swept me completely. I also had to override an initial reaction to protect my weapon when he reached for it which was the result of years of weapons retention practice. Had I not been on my toes I could have responded without thinking and it would have been very bad.

    99% of LE in this state have a "don't show me yours and I won't show you mine" policy for lawfully armed citizens during a simple traffic stop and I think this is generally the safest way to go for all parties. They simply want your hands on the wheel or dash and to keep them there, I think that is probably the best way to go.
    retention holster! Also, perhaps don't open the window so much to allow him to reach in as such.

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    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    retention holster! Also, perhaps don't open the window so much to allow him to reach in as such.
    It was in a retention holster, police know how they function.

    I had the window down already. If I hadn't he'd have simply asked me to step out of the car. Bottom line is he was intent upon taking possession and my only recourse would have been to fight him for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    It was in a retention holster, police know how they function.

    I had the window down already. If I hadn't he'd have simply asked me to step out of the car. Bottom line is he was intent upon taking possession and my only recourse would have been to fight him for it.
    If the law in your state does not specifically grant him such authority and I were in your position, I would see his superior. If I didn't get satisfaction there I would obtain a lawyer and pursue litigation to rectify an illegal search and seizure. It costs money and time, but I value some things above money and time.

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    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    If the law in your state does not specifically grant him such authority and I were in your position, I would see his superior. If I didn't get satisfaction there I would obtain a lawyer and pursue litigation to rectify an illegal search and seizure. It costs money and time, but I value some things above money and time.

    And that is more or less what I did.

    Of course my definition of "satisfaction" was simply to get him brought up to speed on proper procedure rather than to have him fired and end up scrubbing toilets at McDonalds. If my actions resulted in better informed law enforcement who are now more mindful of the rules and regs when it comes to dealing with armed Joe Citizen then I am satisfied.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    steyrAUG, you did well, I commend you...next time tell your buddy you will drive...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    steyrAUG, you did well, I commend you...next time tell your buddy you will drive...
    and to not speak...

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    SteyrAUG...very good post and I really liked the way you went to his supervisor and handled your business....young officers can be rather difficult to talk too....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    A couple of things, as a passenger one has no duty to provide ID.
    There was some case somewhere where it was decided that since the passenger was not free to leave the stopped car, he was being detained as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by SGB
    I do agree that much of nonsense that occurred would have been prevented if the driver had simply answered that he had nothing illegal in the vehicle.
    Obviously he needs to watch some Chris Rock... Or a few episodes of COPS.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    As a result the entire agency underwent a procedural review related to dealing with individuals licensed to carry firearms. Not only was the deputy in question advised of the actual statutes and the proper way to deal with a person licensed to be carrying a concealed weapon, every deputy was provided this information and the proper procedures reviewed.
    Bravo! You handled the situation very well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    There was some case somewhere where it was decided that since the passenger was not free to leave the stopped car, he was being detained as well.
    While he might be required to identify himself if he's being detained, and giving false ID information is a crime, there is still no requirement for a passenger to "produce ID", since there's no requirement of have "ID" as a passenger.


    Obviously he needs to watch some Chris Rock... Or a few episodes of COPS.
    Advisable for everyone.

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