McDonalds Attack - Justification or Not

Fenris · Apr 22, 2011

I do not know where this attack occurred, but my question is whether in Virginia the use of deadly force would be justified in this case to protect this girl from death or serious bodily injury. Note I do not know her current condition.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec0_1303444048

USNA69 · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
I do not know where this attack occurred, but my question is whether in Virginia the use of deadly force would be justified in this case to protect this girl from death or serious bodily injury. Note I do not know her current condition.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec0_1303444048

Happened in 6300 block of Kenwood Avenue, Rosedale in Baltimore County, MD
http://www.wbaltv.com/r/27640819/detail.html

peter nap · Apr 22, 2011

I watched this a couple hours ago. It wasn't Virginia but why would you need to use deadly force to break up a fight between 3 women?

USNA69 · Apr 22, 2011

peter nap said:
I watched this a couple hours ago. It wasn't Virginia but why would you need to use deadly force to break up a fight between 3 women?

How could you be sure that none of them has a knife or a gun?
Maybe they would forget about their little disagreement and all turn on you.
Maybe their armed friends (or really big boyfriends), who were only spectators, would enter the fray against you.

These days, you can never be sure.

peter nap · Apr 22, 2011

USNA69 said:
How could you be sure that none of them has a knife or a gun?
Maybe they would forget about their little disagreement and all turn on you.
Maybe their armed friends (or really big boyfriends), who were only spectators, would enter the fray against you.

These days, you can never be sure.

Why did I have to ask...I already knew the answer.

MAYBE....terrorists with M60's were flipping burgers during their off hours too.:uhoh:

A pair of Yankee women jumped another Yankee woman for whatever reason. Yankee's behave that way.

I watched the video and there wasn't anyone in the place that I couldn't have thrown out and not spilled my double cheese burger.

Why is it that some here want to use their gun instead of a little old fashioned force.
What if doesn't count.:banghead:

Fenris · Apr 22, 2011

Sorry. My fault for not making my question more clear. I wasn't asking whether engaging would be wise or whether there might be a lower force alternative. My question is whether, in Virginia, it would be legally justified to employ deadly force to stop this girl from getting her head kicked/stomped, which at least in my eyes clearly presents a threat of death or serious bodily injury.

peter nap · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
Sorry. My fault for not making my question more clear. I wasn't asking whether engaging would be wise or whether there might be a lower force alternative. My question is whether, in Virginia, it would be legally justified to employ deadly force to stop this girl from getting her head kicked/stomped, which at least in my eyes clearly presents a threat of death or serious bodily injury.

NO, it wouldn't!
The only reason it presented a threat was because no one bothered to stop it and there was nothing that showed it couldn't have been stopped without killing them.

Fenris · Apr 22, 2011

peter nap said:
...why would you need to use deadly force to break up a fight between 3 women?

I watched the video and there wasn't anyone in the place that I couldn't have thrown out and not spilled my double cheese burger.

Why is it that some here want to use their gun instead of a little old fashioned force.
What if doesn't count.:banghead:

Peter, while a little off topic on whether it is justified. But personally I lack your confidence in my physical awesomeness. I am old. I am very fat. I have already had two back operations. I have a bad knee. And I carry a gun. Which means not only am I likely to lose the fight, but my gun may very well be taken from me and used on me (or the girl.)

So again I ask, is deadly force justified?

pyite · Apr 22, 2011

That is a difficult question. Stomping someone's head could definitely kill them but in that situation I think I would have just laid those two b1tches out.

All American Nightmare · Apr 22, 2011

peter nap said:
Why did I have to ask...I already knew the answer.

MAYBE....terrorists with M60's were flipping burgers during their off hours too.:uhoh:

A pair of Yankee women jumped another Yankee woman for whatever reason. Yankee's behave that way.

I watched the video and there wasn't anyone in the place that I couldn't have thrown out and not spilled my double cheese burger.

Why is it that some here want to use their gun instead of a little old fashioned force.
What if doesn't count.:banghead:

Really +1

Fenris · Apr 22, 2011

peter nap said:
NO, it wouldn't!
The only reason it presented a threat was because no one bothered to stop it and there was nothing that showed it couldn't have been stopped without killing them.

So I'm clear. Are you saying that if two people are kicking and stomping a girl's head then deadly force is not legally justifiable. I take it then that if it were your head being kicked and stomped and you were unable to physically prevail, that you would not draw your weapon but rather submit to the deadly assault?

curtiswr · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
So I'm clear. Are you saying that if two people are kicking and stomping a girl's head then deadly force is not legally justifiable. I take it then that if it were your head being kicked and stomped and you were unable to physically prevail, that you would not draw your weapon but rather submit to the deadly assault?

Are you just going to repeat and rephrase as much as possible until you get the answer you want from somebody?

Fenris · Apr 22, 2011

Curtis said:
Are you just going to repeat and rephrase as much as possible until you get the answer you want from somebody?

No. But I am curious why this doesn't qualify as self-defense of another. I guess stomping/kicking are a safe way to kill someone since lethal self-defense would be off the table. Or is it only women that get a pass on attempted murder by stomp?

ProShooter · Apr 22, 2011

peter nap said:
A pair of Yankee women jumped another Yankee woman for whatever reason. Yankee's behave that way.

No Yankee would ever consider 3 women from Maryland to be "fellow Yankees". Where I come from, Maryland is considered part of the South.

I guess your view depends on where you are viewing from.....location, location, location!

curtiswr · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
No. But I am curious why this doesn't qualify as self-defense of another. I guess stomping/kicking are a safe way to kill someone since lethal self-defense would be off the table. Or is it only women that get a pass on attempted murder by stomp?

What are you talking about? Did you watch Office Space recently and whip out your own jump to conclusions map? Throwing the attackers off, while not the same as shooting them to make them stop, is a form of defending the one being attacked... believe it or not. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail I guess.

ProShooter said:
No Yankee would ever consider 3 women from Maryland to be "fellow Yankees". Where I come from, Maryland is considered part of the South.

I guess your view depends on where you are viewing from.....location, location, location!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/maryland-trying-to-secede-from-the-south_n_505412.html

45acpForMe · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
I do not know where this attack occurred, but my question is whether in Virginia the use of deadly force would be justified in this case to protect this girl from death or serious bodily injury. Note I do not know her current condition.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec0_1303444048

I saw this earlier today too and thought the same question.

I could not stand by and do nothing while such a beating took place. I may have not unholstered and tried to intervene like the older lady seen in the video did but with more force. I would hope the sight of my holstered gun would encourage them to take my demand to stop seriously.

Even though I think the above would be a moral action, I could easily see any escalation to deadly force being closely scrutinized by a district attorney and the outcome of that analysis would probably be very skewed to whatever that DA's political agenda was.

So my answer would be yes but my two cents are worth less every day, darn fiat currency!!!

t33j · Apr 22, 2011

Fenris said:
Peter, while a little off topic on whether it is justified. But personally I lack your confidence in my physical awesomeness. I am old. I am very fat. I have already had two back operations. I have a bad knee. And I carry a gun. Which means not only am I likely to lose the fight, but my gun may very well be taken from me and used on me (or the girl.)

So again I ask, is deadly force justified?

Not your fight.

Intervene knowing there is potential for your own peril.

45acpForMe · Apr 22, 2011

t33j said:
Intervene knowing there is potential for your own peril.

Where is HankT to comment on this thread? (shooting an unarmed person...) :uhoh:

Chap · Apr 22, 2011

Just Yell

Free Food ................ :lol:

From a look at those women the fight would have been forgotten. While they graze on the free grub, slip the victim out the side door. :arrow:

Chap

ed · Apr 22, 2011

I may have told the victim to get in the corner and stay behind me. I would verbally warn the others they should leave and if they came towards me I would drop them.

McDonalds Attack - Justification or Not

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