Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47

Thread: NRA just called

  1. #1
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196

    NRA just called

    Asking why I let my membership expire. I was able to talk to the lady for about 15 minutes and tell her how disappointed I was that the NRA was not on the front line of OC rights. We talked about several things relating to OC, including the CADL case, the current florida bill and constitutional carry.

    I did not renew at this time, but she assured me that she would forward my feelings to those above her to let them know there was a lot of dissatisfaction among 2A supporters with the NRA's stance and aggressiveness on OC issues. Hopefully someone important will get the info.

    I will renew in the near future, b/c I think the NRA does a lot of good too and they are the only ones that politicians listen to and are scared of, but I thought by not renewing at this time my statements may make it further up the ladder.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Kudos to you sir, and well played.

  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Some excerpts regarding why I don't support the NRA:

    Shocking Emails Show National Rifle Association Worked to Prohibit Rifles From National Parks

    "Shocking new e-mails obtained by RedState show that the National Rifle Association actively opposed and sought to undermine gun-rights legislation offered in the Senate by Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK).....

    This is referring to legislation by Senator Tom Coburn, which would have allowed rifles and pistols into national parks — legislation the NRA actively tried to undermine. In other words, in getting their puff piece written by the New York Times, the NRA is taking credit for things the NRA actively tried to stop. That is not the whole story.

    A congressional aide tells me, “You’re absolutely right that many conservatives view the NRA as an organization that represents itself rather than the 2nd amendment. For instance, the NRA was livid when Senator Coburn introduced the guns in the park amendment without their permission. The NRA worked to undermine the amendment.”

    see the whole article here:
    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/0...ational-parks/
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    I will do likewise, but won't renew. I hear good things about GOA from Venator. Maybe my money will do better there.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Uncasville, ct
    Posts
    14
    The letters in the mail rambling about how everyone will lose their guns if I dont renew is enough to keep me away.

    DCR

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    145
    I won't renew while the NRA continues the FUD campaign about everyone taking our guns.

    The last time they called I declined membership. Ten minutes later the SAF called and asked if I would support their litigation by donating. I renewed my membership and gave some extra for the great lawsuits.

    I find the SAF is doing more and getting better results and deserve more of our support.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    FUD also describes their tactics to get members: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

    I have no interest in an organization that attempt to control their membership with fear.

    Tell me more about "SAF"?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Why would the NRA care about OCing or NFA weapons or any other smaller time folks? There is no money in it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    There is when we are dropping our memberships in numbers.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    There is when we are dropping our memberships in numbers.

    Not sure if you were responding to my post, but assuming you were, I'll again state that there is no money in it for them. Even if open carriers and machine gun lovers across the country represent 80,000 lost memberships, (and I'm quite sure we don't account for that much) You have to consider the fact that they have millions of members, and have money coming in from every which way from their various sponsors and normally severely inept programs they teach. Ever consider the fact that they have training programs for cops, and therefore actually make money off of our tax dollars? Ever consider that state laws across the country either encourage or almost require NRA training, which requires NRA certified teachers to pay the NRA a bunch of money to become instructors, and then collect money from students for more money to the NRA? Nearly everyone here, including you and I took their dumbass course, in fact probably multiple times for programs such as Hunters Safety, and for some of us shooting activities in scouts, and they made money on it.

    They are one of the biggest and best pyramid schemes in the history of the USA.

    Consider all that, then ask yourself why they'd give a flying **** about any of us here having memberships.
    Last edited by Michigander; 04-23-2011 at 09:21 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  11. #11
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    As of right now I don't have the money to become a member but I'm sure I will be one day. Sure the NRA is not able to satisfy everyone but they do a lot of great work and can't fight every fight. Just not possible. But, being law abiding like I'm sure most if not all of us here are, having a big organization like the NRA to help with legislation. They are able to put time, energy, and money that none of us can. I'm not saying it perfect but as gun owners I do think we need them to help preserve our rights.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Sure the NRA is not able to satisfy everyone but they do a lot of great work and can't fight every fight. .
    It would seem that way, until you take a closer look at how they operate.

    The bottom of their pyramid scheme is a huge grass roots army or instructors and members who have the potential to get together and get things done and be publicized just like the small but formidable core group of folks on this site do. But their grassroots actions are backed by fancy lawyers and all the money they need to get things done, and they have political contacts we can only dream of for the time being.

    If they had being pro gun in mind more so than their primary goal of being a money making business, they'd do a hell of a lot more with their resources.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  13. #13
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    As of right now I don't have the money to become a member but I'm sure I will be one day. Sure the NRA is not able to satisfy everyone but they do a lot of great work and can't fight every fight. Just not possible. But, being law abiding like I'm sure most if not all of us here are, having a big organization like the NRA to help with legislation. They are able to put time, energy, and money that none of us can. I'm not saying it perfect but as gun owners I do think we need them to help preserve our rights.
    I tend to agree with you. The fact is the NRA has the ears of the politicians, and without them we would be much worse of then we are. I have never herad a politician say they are afraid of GOA, SAF, or MOC, but I know a lot that are scared of ******* off the NRA. Instead of bailing on them and trying to create something equally as powerful(which would take a REALLY long time and a LOT of money) I think it's best to try and transform them into what we want.

    Has the NRA made some bad moves? Absolutely, but they have also done a lot of good. I think we all fall into that category.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    145
    The SAF is the Second Amendment Foundation and they successfully litigated Heller and McDonald to the SCOTUS and won. The NRA nudged themselves into each of those cases in a crappy way, but the outcome for all of us was the 2A was incorporated.

    The SAF at http://saf.org has more ongoing litigation than the NRA and we are all likely to see very positive results.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    The NRA just needs to get back to reality and it, (and we) would all do very well.

  16. #16
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by smn View Post
    The SAF is the Second Amendment Foundation and they successfully litigated Heller and McDonald to the SCOTUS and won. The NRA nudged themselves into each of those cases in a crappy way, but the outcome for all of us was the 2A was incorporated.

    The SAF at http://saf.org has more ongoing litigation than the NRA and we are all likely to see very positive results.
    SAF is great and I support them 1000%. But they do not have anywhere near the pull in DC and state legislatures that the NRA does, so I believe both need to be used to help with 2A issues.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I will do likewise, but won't renew. I hear good things about GOA from Venator. Maybe my money will do better there.
    i just joined them and bought a gift membership for my brother
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    721
    Here in Virginia the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) is responsible for the 2A freedoms we have. The NRA won't come down to the local level and I don't remember when was the last time they came down to the state level to help.

    One of our members, Dave Yates, is the one responsible for getting the National Parks ban over turned. At the last minute when all the work was done, the NRA stepped in to take credit. Then they ask you for financial support to help them to continue to fight battles like this. They also took credit for over turning the ban on carrying a concealed handgun into a place that serves alcohol (in Virginia we don't have bars, they must serve food).They had nothing to do with it but, it didn't stop them for taking credit and asking for a donation.

    I emailed them and told them how ticked off I was about them being willing to throw all the other 2A groups under the bus last year and taking credit for all 2A battles that are won everyday. All I got back was a nastygram.

    I support Gun Owners of America and VCDL. It's the grassroots efforts in Michigan that will get your 2A rights back not the NRA.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by kimbercarrier View Post
    . I emailed them and told them how ticked off I was about them being willing to throw all the other 2A groups under the bus last year and taking credit for all 2A battles that are won everyday. All I got back was a nastygram.

    I support Gun Owners of America and VCDL. It's the grassroots efforts in Michigan that will get your 2A rights back not the NRA.

    Similarly, Venator and others did a hell of a nice job organizing the second amendment march with as far as I know a complete refusal to help from the NRA. But then the NRA decided to set up booths at the event.

    Here in Michigan, actually having our rights recognized has been almost completely a matter of grass roots as well. Getting shall issue passed was done almost exclusively by MCRGO before it became nearly worthless. The NRA jumped on board only after it was almost a sure thing, and afterwards tried to take credit for it.

    Here, now, we're basically on our own as a grass roots effort, standing alone with our comparatively meager resources, taking on the crooked politicians, judges and cops which get in the way of the constitution. For our size and resources, we're doing a hell of a job. As an organized group of people, MOC is about 2 years behind VCDL, but there is no reason why we can't get to the point soon where we directly lobby law makers and get laws passed. And I'm sure, true to form that if we get anything done the NRA will jump on board. Or maybe they won't, because as open carriers we have the potential to expose the worthless nature of NRA CCW type classes, and this is strongly evident to piss them off.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Maybe if we started refusing to let them participate, or set up thier booths for a while, that would start to get their attention. We need to keep the NRA, but we need to put them in their place first.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    721
    It takes time but, keep on fighting and you will see good results. Here inVa. we have what is called Lobby Day at the General Assembly of Va. It's on MLK day every year and we meet at the General Assembly building and lobby our state reps. We had about 600+ this year and about 1000 last year.

    We wear round orange Guns Save Lives stickers as we lobby. They pretty much all know our organization. We have printed talking points about up coming bills printed that we use to address them and leave them a copy also. It has bills listed as strongly support, support, neutral, oppose, and strongly oppose.

    We also have a great leader Philip Van Cleave, and lots of tireless volunteers. and we also have tables for our organization set up at gun shows, political events and anywhere we can spread the word.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oakland County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    I tend to agree with you. The fact is the NRA has the ears of the politicians, and without them we would be much worse of then we are. I have never herad a politician say they are afraid of GOA, SAF, or MOC, but I know a lot that are scared of ******* off the NRA. Instead of bailing on them and trying to create something equally as powerful(which would take a REALLY long time and a LOT of money) I think it's best to try and transform them into what we want.

    Has the NRA made some bad moves? Absolutely, but they have also done a lot of good. I think we all fall into that category.
    Yeah that!!!

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Similarly, Venator and others did a hell of a nice job organizing the second amendment march with as far as I know a complete refusal to help from the NRA. But then the NRA decided to set up booths at the event.

    Here in Michigan, actually having our rights recognized has been almost completely a matter of grass roots as well. Getting shall issue passed was done almost exclusively by MCRGO before it became nearly worthless. The NRA jumped on board only after it was almost a sure thing, and afterwards tried to take credit for it.

    Here, now, we're basically on our own as a grass roots effort, standing alone with our comparatively meager resources, taking on the crooked politicians, judges and cops which get in the way of the constitution. For our size and resources, we're doing a hell of a job. As an organized group of people, MOC is about 2 years behind VCDL, but there is no reason why we can't get to the point soon where we directly lobby law makers and get laws passed. And I'm sure, true to form that if we get anything done the NRA will jump on board. Or maybe they won't, because as open carriers we have the potential to expose the worthless nature of NRA CCW type classes, and this is strongly evident to piss them off.
    grass roots, you're absolutely right. what we see in michigan is quit literally people taking to the streets with guns. you rarely hear any group taking credit or even being named in news reports. even when MOC members are interviewed, the name of the group takes a back seat to the common goal of educating the public.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 04-25-2011 at 07:05 AM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  24. #24
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by kimbercarrier View Post
    We also have a great leader Philip Van Cleave, and lots of tireless volunteers. and we also have tables for our organization set up at gun shows, political events and anywhere we can spread the word.
    I'd been a fan of Phillip's work for quite a while before I finally got to meet him just over a year ago at the second amendment march. I was actually a lot more excited to meet him than Dick Heller and Suzanna Hupp.

    Didn't know that part about MLK day. This is the sort of thing Michigan needs, for sure.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  25. #25
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    It would seem that way, until you take a closer look at how they operate.

    The bottom of their pyramid scheme is a huge grass roots army or instructors and members who have the potential to get together and get things done and be publicized just like the small but formidable core group of folks on this site do. But their grassroots actions are backed by fancy lawyers and all the money they need to get things done, and they have political contacts we can only dream of for the time being.

    If they had being pro gun in mind more so than their primary goal of being a money making business, they'd do a hell of a lot more with their resources.
    Every year they submit their expenses publicly so you can see where the money goes.Check it out if you like.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •