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Thread: 8 tips on contacts with 'open carry' citizens @ The PoliceOne Firearms Corner

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    8 tips on contacts with 'open carry' citizens @ The PoliceOne Firearms Corner

    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Thanks for the link. It's good to see open carry becoming a more discussed issue, especially within the LEO community. Pro or con, discussion raises awareness. That's what were are all about.

    From the comment section...

    "I'm an Officer in Arizona where Open Carry has been legal and accepted for quite some time.I'm not sure where the author gets the idea that Open Carry is a form of political protest.Open carry in Arizona is like driving a car. It's what people do. It's something that officers here have become accustomed to."

    If only here in Michigan...
    Last edited by scot623; 04-25-2011 at 12:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    This should be sent to every Police Chief, Sheriff and anyone else...

    This is the first common sense article I have read in a long time...even if he is a "former" LEO
    Last edited by zekester; 04-25-2011 at 01:50 PM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Thanks Dr. that was good.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Pretty interesting read.
    very
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    That pesky 1st amendment, almost as bad as the 2nd.

    From article:

    2.) Understand that — as with any belief that people feel strongly about — open carry is a form of political protest. While the majority will do what is asked of them without a lot of fuss, there will be extremists who are willing to be political martyrs by doing whatever it takes to push their agenda and raise awareness to their cause.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    [quote]Excellent article Ron, a wealth of info on good vs bad armed citizen contacts. I have ALWAYS supported the right of the law abiding public to own firearms and to carry concealed with the appropriate licenses and training. It is a basic right bestowed on them by our Founding Fathers and....as they do it responsibly and lawfully I have no issues with it at all....[unquote]

    Since when does a right require permission from the elite in control?

    Oh... ever since the elite decided they needed to get rid of rights and make them all privileges they can deny or take away.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    "Further, what is to keep others with less than pure motivations from carrying openly? It’s feasible that gang members and militia types — who, obviously, do not have firearm ownership prohibitions stemming from prior criminal activity — could also legally carry under open carry conditions."

    Do I even need to go into how stupid this is?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    That pesky 1st amendment, almost as bad as the 2nd.

    From article:

    2.) Understand that — as with any belief that people feel strongly about — open carry is a form of political protest. While the majority will do what is asked of them without a lot of fuss, there will be extremists who are willing to be political martyrs by doing whatever it takes to push their agenda and raise awareness to their cause.
    I wonder if Avery has any idea how statist that sounds.

    Also, why would there be a problem needing extremist martyrdom if all the cop did was ask? As compared to demand?

    And, those who know their rights cold are extremists, are they? Hooo boy. Got some work to do.

  10. #10
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    So basically OCers are a bunch of disgruntled political hacks who carry for political reasons, until of course such time occurs that we can legally carry concealed. When that happens we'll all carry concealed because that's what we really want to do.

    What a goon.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The author keeps harping on the notion that LEOs (and the rest of the world) should key on the behavior of the individual and not on the [mere] presence of the gun, yet repeatedly states as a matter of fact that the mere presence of the gun will cause the person OC-ing to become a "person of interest", a "perceived threat", and more.

    While it is refreshing to read of a LEO who is attempting to spread the word to his fellow LEOs that OC is "permissable" under the law (as, I suppose is breathing which also does not have any laws restricting that behavior), we are still dealing with the fact that despite the author's claims, it is feelings that will control how he, other LEOs, and the general public are encouraged to respond to the presence of OC. And those feelings are, apparently, that "the gun is bad unless being OC'd by a uniformed LEO - unless it is a plainclothes LEO".

    My head - it hurts.

    stay safe.

  12. #12
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Our Founding Fathers didn’t give us the right to keep and bear arms, God did! Our Founding Fathers merely recognized this Divine right and codified it into law.

    Whatever men can give, they can also take away.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

  13. #13
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    Amen.

  14. #14
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i read a lot of good points in these posts. at first i thought it was a good article. and still think it has some good merit, because one of the main points is that leo's do not really need to fear someone OC'ing.

    quote
    "For the law enforcement officer, any type of weapon being carried, openly or concealed, appears as a threat to their well being and is therefore regarded as a hazard. The common perceptions of a person carrying openly is an escalation of perceived threat, potential for violence,"
    i have often wondered about this mentality and know from what i have learned over the years, it does come from the training.

    however, there seems to be a condescending attitude for OC. like others of you have pointed out, his statement that it is just a form of political protest. no mention that it is a deterrent. he actual states that the OCer will be a target.
    i will go back to that it still has a lot of good points. and generally is positive for citizens
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Thanks for the link. It's good to see open carry becoming a more discussed issue, especially within the LEO community. Pro or con, discussion raises awareness. That's what were are all about.

    From the comment section...

    "I'm an Officer in Arizona where Open Carry has been legal and accepted for quite some time.I'm not sure where the author gets the idea that Open Carry is a form of political protest.Open carry in Arizona is like driving a car. It's what people do. It's something that officers here have become accustomed to."

    If only here in Michigan...
    About 2 and a half years ago when I got back from living in Arizona, I can remember like it was yesterday the rude re-awakening of being felony stopped and detained numerous times. I went from being just a guy who wanted to be prepared to being a political protester, almost exclusively because of felonious ass hole cops and their handlers.

    We've come an awfully long way since then. We're not at Arizona's level yet because we don't have a hot climate where OC is almost mandatory, we don't have a constitutional specification that exactly says you can carry a gun openly, and we don't have constitutional carry. What we do now have is a state full of cops who have been educated and/or warned that we actually know our rights and how to stick up for them. No matter where you are, if you OC in a city some people will be thrown off by it. As long as the cops don't detain you, everything works as expected.

    We're getting closer...
    Last edited by Michigander; 04-26-2011 at 01:10 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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