Kennewick OCer makes KPD police blotter...

.45ACPaddy said:

It just felt more comfortable, especially in the car. I'd rather have something on the side of my leg than digging into my right kidney.

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Did you try and draw the weapon carried in a thigh rig while seated and belted in a car seat? Just remember that you may have to do so in that position while stopped in traffic or at a light. Might be close to impossible if you have a console without some contortions. For car carry, try a cross draw. Not trapped under the seat belt and when you draw the firearm is already on the side of your body where it is most likely to be needed.

It was not me.

I OC in the Pasco Albertsons just about every time I'm there, and never a word. Of course, I try not to go there any more than necessary because the store is poorly managed, IMO.

joeroket said:

Same thing could mean he had been contacted by KPD for OC'ing and not necessarily for carrying in that store.

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Read that sentence again.

"Store management advised him that he was not welcome inside their store with a displayed firearm. The subject has been previously contacted by KPD for same thing."

Taken literally "not welcome inside their store" and then "previously contacted for the same thing", says what? That he was previous contacted by the KPD for not being welcome inside their store.

While it could simply be poor journalism as written and not true, that statement is perfectly clear.

VW_Factor said:

Read that sentence again.

"Store management advised him that he was not welcome inside their store with a displayed firearm. The subject has been previously contacted by KPD for same thing."

Taken literally "not welcome inside their store" and then "previously contacted for the same thing", says what? That he was previous contacted by the KPD for not being welcome inside their store.

While it could simply be poor journalism as written and not true, that statement is perfectly clear.

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You don't read police blotters much do you? They are hardly clear and concise. Either interpretation of it is correct. I stand by how I interpret the sentences.

I guess it really depends on the context of the 911 call. I worked in NC as a 911 operator for several months and there are very few calls we are allowed to brush off. (you get your occasional nut job that would like the police to tell his neighbor that his dog cant crap in his yard or something) but anything involving a gun no matter how legal an officer is going to at least come out and investigate the call.

I wasnt there and I dont know but it could have been a call from the manager where they wanted the OC to leave but did not want to tell them themselves?

Thanks Freedom, I am subscribed, although they didnt make it easy to find. you have to go to govt, then police, then briefing reports.

I read the last part as a seperate instance. (The subject has been previously contacted by KPD for same thing.) Now I am looking for a way to search.

Sc0tt said:

I wasnt there and I dont know but it could have been a call from the manager where they wanted the OC to leave but did not want to tell them themselves?

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But the police have no authority to tell someone to leave unless an employee of the store says it to the person first. Only when said individual refuses to leave does the cops have any authority and then it is only to enforce a trespass.

Contrasts of Conformity ...

BigDave said:

... Wonder if he had open carried in a holster on a belt if it would have brought the attention it did with a thigh rig !!!!

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I guess this statement has always bothered me a little. I've run the gambit here more than once. Dave please didn't take this as an affront, it's not at you, but merely the topic of personal styles. Being the eccentric freedom loving type that I am, I would point out that we as gun owners, and especially open carriers, indeed lay siege against the status quo. We raise our fist to the air and demand our liberties be protected, that our desire to go about our business un infringed be respected ...... Yet here, with the simple concept of carry style, we fall backward, and impinge upon each other the same conformist restraints that we have fought against with anti-gunners. We lay down our parameters of what is typically "acceptable" and expect others to fall in line and keep pace. At times, we even condemn or pick on the ones who enjoy a flare, a fashion or have a little fun with how and what they carry. Though i would thank the forum in general for not treating me as a fringe type, the fact is I often am. I often CC or OC my 1911 at the belt line, one or two spare mags discretely tucked away... Spring the warm summer days, I often wear a single action in a drop loop. It is comfortable, it is wicked fast coming out, it looks rustic and has a certain flavor that i dearly love. ~ Stands out? Yes, it does. - Should i be treated any different that any other OCer because I like to carry outside of the conformities or the expected norm? Absolutely not. Not by the police, or by fellow OCers, or even by my fellow general public. Fact is, my liberties and freedoms, as protected by the State and US Constitutions are no more or less valuable, nor are they different because I like a certain carry style. We indeed need to drop the conformist concepts of "acceptable" carry styles, save for obvious safety issues that may arise from a dangerous or hap-hazard carry methods. (thats a completely different concept). I understand floggings for those that have guns flop out of a pocket and discharging on the ground, or holsterless belt tuckers that drop the gun when they bend over - those are genuine safety issues. But John Doe that wears a thigh rig, or Jane Doe who wears vintage WWII rigs, etc, should not be made to feel less than welcome while practicing their god given liberties with a bit more flare, flavor or passion that the rest of "Us".
- I care deeply for our liberties and freedoms, and i respect ANYONE who has the guts to open carry and help make a positive impact on their community. Open carry is OPEN CARRY, no matter on the belt line, or in a thigh rig, an old western rig, vintage WWII, or bright pink Hello-Kitty glock in a pink cross draw holster ~ We are all in here for the same thing... personal freedom ...

~ Anyways, I recently got back from Tokyo Japan, didn't have my gun for over 15 days - hehe. Glad to be home, however, it was also really cool to be in a culture and country that has such rich traditions and respect for each other in general. It is a whole different world there .

Be good to each other.

:dude: Bat.

Glad to have you back Bat. Hope your family in Japan are surviving well considering the hardships that country has faced.

.45ACPaddy said:

I've tried someone's thigh rig a few times and never received any more attention than normal, i.e. next to none.

It just felt more comfortable, especially in the car. I'd rather have something on the side of my leg than digging into my right kidney.

I just don't have the funds for such a holster at the moment. I'd wear one because of comfort, and because of what my own experience has told me.

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What's all the fuss over thigh rigs on this forum ? If you don't like them, guess what. . .you don't have to wear one.




Duke

Batousaii said:

I guess this statement has always bothered me a little. I've run the gambit here more than once. Dave please didn't take this as an affront, it's not at you, but merely the topic of personal styles. Being the eccentric freedom loving type that I am, I would point out that we as gun owners, and especially open carriers, indeed lay siege against the status quo. We raise our fist to the air and demand our liberties be protected, that our desire to go about our business un infringed be respected ...... Yet here, with the simple concept of carry style, we fall backward, and impinge upon each other the same conformist restraints that we have fought against with anti-gunners. We lay down our parameters of what is typically "acceptable" and expect others to fall in line and keep pace. At times, we even condemn or pick on the ones who enjoy a flare, a fashion or have a little fun with how and what they carry. Though i would thank the forum in general for not treating me as a fringe type, the fact is I often am. I often CC or OC my 1911 at the belt line, one or two spare mags discretely tucked away... Spring the warm summer days, I often wear a single action in a drop loop. It is comfortable, it is wicked fast coming out, it looks rustic and has a certain flavor that i dearly love. ~ Stands out? Yes, it does. - Should i be treated any different that any other OCer because I like to carry outside of the conformities or the expected norm? Absolutely not. Not by the police, or by fellow OCers, or even by my fellow general public. Fact is, my liberties and freedoms, as protected by the State and US Constitutions are no more or less valuable, nor are they different because I like a certain carry style. We indeed need to drop the conformist concepts of "acceptable" carry styles, save for obvious safety issues that may arise from a dangerous or hap-hazard carry methods. (thats a completely different concept). I understand floggings for those that have guns flop out of a pocket and discharging on the ground, or holsterless belt tuckers that drop the gun when they bend over - those are genuine safety issues. But John Doe that wears a thigh rig, or Jane Doe who wears vintage WWII rigs, etc, should not be made to feel less than welcome while practicing their god given liberties with a bit more flare, flavor or passion that the rest of "Us".
- I care deeply for our liberties and freedoms, and i respect ANYONE who has the guts to open carry and help make a positive impact on their community. Open carry is OPEN CARRY, no matter on the belt line, or in a thigh rig, an old western rig, vintage WWII, or bright pink Hello-Kitty glock in a pink cross draw holster ~ We are all in here for the same thing... personal freedom ...

~ Anyways, I recently got back from Tokyo Japan, didn't have my gun for over 15 days - hehe. Glad to be home, however, it was also really cool to be in a culture and country that has such rich traditions and respect for each other in general. It is a whole different world there .

Be good to each other.

:dude: Bat.

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Here here !


Duke

Batousaii said:

I guess this statement has always bothered me a little. I've run the gambit here more than once. Dave please didn't take this as an affront, it's not at you, but merely the topic of personal styles. Being the eccentric freedom loving type that I am, I would point out that we as gun owners, and especially open carriers, indeed lay siege against the status quo. We raise our fist to the air and demand our liberties be protected, that our desire to go about our business un infringed be respected ...... Yet here, with the simple concept of carry style, we fall backward, and impinge upon each other the same conformist restraints that we have fought against with anti-gunners. We lay down our parameters of what is typically "acceptable" and expect others to fall in line and keep pace. At times, we even condemn or pick on the ones who enjoy a flare, a fashion or have a little fun with how and what they carry. Though i would thank the forum in general for not treating me as a fringe type, the fact is I often am. I often CC or OC my 1911 at the belt line, one or two spare mags discretely tucked away... Spring the warm summer days, I often wear a single action in a drop loop. It is comfortable, it is wicked fast coming out, it looks rustic and has a certain flavor that i dearly love. ~ Stands out? Yes, it does. - Should i be treated any different that any other OCer because I like to carry outside of the conformities or the expected norm? Absolutely not. Not by the police, or by fellow OCers, or even by my fellow general public. Fact is, my liberties and freedoms, as protected by the State and US Constitutions are no more or less valuable, nor are they different because I like a certain carry style. We indeed need to drop the conformist concepts of "acceptable" carry styles, save for obvious safety issues that may arise from a dangerous or hap-hazard carry methods. (thats a completely different concept). I understand floggings for those that have guns flop out of a pocket and discharging on the ground, or holsterless belt tuckers that drop the gun when they bend over - those are genuine safety issues. But John Doe that wears a thigh rig, or Jane Doe who wears vintage WWII rigs, etc, should not be made to feel less than welcome while practicing their god given liberties with a bit more flare, flavor or passion that the rest of "Us".
- I care deeply for our liberties and freedoms, and i respect ANYONE who has the guts to open carry and help make a positive impact on their community. Open carry is OPEN CARRY, no matter on the belt line, or in a thigh rig, an old western rig, vintage WWII, or bright pink Hello-Kitty glock in a pink cross draw holster ~ We are all in here for the same thing... personal freedom ...

~ Anyways, I recently got back from Tokyo Japan, didn't have my gun for over 15 days - hehe. Glad to be home, however, it was also really cool to be in a culture and country that has such rich traditions and respect for each other in general. It is a whole different world there .

Be good to each other.

:dude: Bat.

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Appreciate your candid and well articulated response. I personally disagree with nothing that you said.

There is another aspect to what we do and how we accomplish it in course of our normal daily routines - that of public relations, the perceptions of others. That cause and effect equation is a lot more difficult to reduce to finite terms and has frequently been a point of contention here.

It would be of immense benefit if all could so effectively define their position w/o attacking those not so clearly of the same precise bent. I thank you, sir.

Social Grace over Garments

- Ty SVG - Family is all OK there, Tokyo seemed to have retained allot of resiliency, thanks largely to building codes. They have bus stops in Tokyo, where people go and get picked up to volunteer and assist Sendai, it was amazing to see how supportive they are.

- Duke, Grapeshot, ty too. I'd like to add a quick comment, or really an observation as an OCer. How I carry myself plays a much bigger role than what or how i am carrying. In general, i tend to be a polite guy, maybe even a little old fashioned. I open doors for ladies and give a polite nod to guys when appropriate. This is just my nature, but tends to be a benefit when dealing with concerned citizens, or even the police. I am rarely argumentative with police, unless they are way out of line or rude. Manners are a big deal to me, so even on-line i tend to respect others, and again, this aspect of my life plays a much bigger role in dealing with peoples reactions than the equipment that i chose to secure my sidearm in. Most people, cops included, would rather deal with a polite mannered person wearing a thigh rig, than deal with a brash arrogant type wearing a 1911 at the belt line. This especially applies when standing ground with ones rights when dealing with police, but can apply as well with managers and mis informed citizens. As for Public Relations: how we wear ourselves is much more important that how we wear our equipment (within reasonable limits i presume). - This has been, at least for now, my personal experience, where manners and etiquette have relieved me of many difficult encounters. When going back to freedom and liberties, I'd comment that one should be able to be themselves, polite or not, and if not breaking any laws, should be left alone to go about their business, while wearing whatever, however they so desire. But for now, as we strive to reach that goal, yes, i agree, some measure should be made to ensure public relations and image are managed. I just believe attitude, manners and social grace play a much bigger role than the garments we employ to secure our arms.

:dude: With respect,

Bat.

Batousaii said:

I guess this statement has always bothered me a little. I've run the gambit here more than once. Dave please didn't take this as an affront, it's not at you, but merely the topic of personal styles. Being the eccentric freedom loving type that I am, I would point out that we as gun owners, and especially open carriers, indeed lay siege against the status quo. We raise our fist to the air and demand our liberties be protected, that our desire to go about our business un infringed be respected ...... Yet here, with the simple concept of carry style, we fall backward, and impinge upon each other the same conformist restraints that we have fought against with anti-gunners. We lay down our parameters of what is typically "acceptable" and expect others to fall in line and keep pace. At times, we even condemn or pick on the ones who enjoy a flare, a fashion or have a little fun with how and what they carry. Though i would thank the forum in general for not treating me as a fringe type, the fact is I often am. I often CC or OC my 1911 at the belt line, one or two spare mags discretely tucked away... Spring the warm summer days, I often wear a single action in a drop loop. It is comfortable, it is wicked fast coming out, it looks rustic and has a certain flavor that i dearly love. ~ Stands out? Yes, it does. - Should i be treated any different that any other OCer because I like to carry outside of the conformities or the expected norm? Absolutely not. Not by the police, or by fellow OCers, or even by my fellow general public. Fact is, my liberties and freedoms, as protected by the State and US Constitutions are no more or less valuable, nor are they different because I like a certain carry style. We indeed need to drop the conformist concepts of "acceptable" carry styles, save for obvious safety issues that may arise from a dangerous or hap-hazard carry methods. (thats a completely different concept). I understand floggings for those that have guns flop out of a pocket and discharging on the ground, or holsterless belt tuckers that drop the gun when they bend over - those are genuine safety issues. But John Doe that wears a thigh rig, or Jane Doe who wears vintage WWII rigs, etc, should not be made to feel less than welcome while practicing their god given liberties with a bit more flare, flavor or passion that the rest of "Us".
- I care deeply for our liberties and freedoms, and i respect ANYONE who has the guts to open carry and help make a positive impact on their community. Open carry is OPEN CARRY, no matter on the belt line, or in a thigh rig, an old western rig, vintage WWII, or bright pink Hello-Kitty glock in a pink cross draw holster ~ We are all in here for the same thing... personal freedom ...

~ Anyways, I recently got back from Tokyo Japan, didn't have my gun for over 15 days - hehe. Glad to be home, however, it was also really cool to be in a culture and country that has such rich traditions and respect for each other in general. It is a whole different world there .

Be good to each other.

:dude: Bat.

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+ a really huge number that would wear out my keys if I attempted to enter it in here.

Bat, I would expect nothing less from you. You, my friend, are a true gentleman.

amlevin said:

Did you try and draw the weapon carried in a thigh rig while seated and belted in a car seat? Just remember that you may have to do so in that position while stopped in traffic or at a light. Might be close to impossible if you have a console without some contortions. For car carry, try a cross draw. Not trapped under the seat belt and when you draw the firearm is already on the side of your body where it is most likely to be needed.

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I did when I was at home, parked in the garage with an unloaded pistol. Worked way better than a hip holster.

Bat welcome back.
I agree with some of what you have said and acknowledge issues of should not and is on the issue of how open carriers are viewed, the point I am driving here it does not matter if one likes it or not, we are viewed by others on how we look and conduct ourselves.

I have seen officers and citizens in these thigh rigs in civilians clothes and cannot help the first thought that comes to mind is wannabe video game hero.
I have never taken this opinion when seeing someone with a belt holstered weapon operating in the same manner of decorum.

Drawing from the hip versus a thigh rig is likely slightly quicker when surprised in that moment in time, how much exactly I do not know.
How about weapons retention with a thigh rig as it will no doubt offer different nuances in maintaining control.
Those who from a professional well established training facility who teach handgun retention could enlighten us, it is easier, equal or harder to maintain control?

There are those who act or dress to make a statement to others about them and should not be shocked or upset at others do not share the same view as them, after all is that what they are also asking from others?

NavyLT said:

The concealed carry only crowd says exactly the same things about those who open carry in a belt holster.

The anti-gun crowd says exactly the same things about anyone who carries a gun at all.

We get all p......off when we hear them making those statements or see them post such statements.....

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Why does this not surprise me, you making a division between those who carry for self defense.
And of course this is your absurd twist on it, not mine.

NavyLT said:

I'm just saying we don't like idiit when people label us with terms like cowboy and wild west because we open carry, yet some people make the same judgements about those who carry in a certain type of holster or carry long guns.

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And the worst divisions are done by those who pretend to be pro 2A.

It is guys like this who were sitting on Josh's jury.

If I'd been the officer responding to my local Albertson's for a MWAG call and found a young man packing in in a thigh-rig, a couple spare mags and a tactical flashlight on his belt, and he wasn't a member of our SRT on a lunch break from training, I'd probably fall down laughing.

Yeah, open-carry is a great thing, but ostentatious open carry in a tactical rig is silly. C'mon now. Really? Why? More comfortable? No way. I hate wearing a strap tight around my thigh.

BigDave posted

How about weapons retention with a thigh rig as it will no doubt offer different nuances in maintaining control.
Those who from a professional well established training facility who teach handgun retention could enlighten us, it is easier, equal or harder to maintain control?

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I am a certified firearms instructor for my department. It is a fact; weapon retention is more effective from holster worn on the waist than with the thigh-drop holster. You have substantially more strength with your dominant hand/arm at the waist-level than at lower-thigh level. Most effective weapons-retention strikes and holds are taught for waist-mounted handguns. My department's special teams are now given the option of wearing our holsters on belts or drop-leg tactical rigs, and many are chosing to go back to wearing holsters on the belts -- it's more comfortable, a faster draw, and does provide for better retention, especially if an officer has to go hands-on.

Of course, much of our experience comes from wrestling/fighting with bad people, so if you want to wear your cool tactical rig when grocery shopping, don't take it personally if you hear some snickering and chuckles ...