Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: The problem with 'open carry' laws

  1. #1
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196

    The problem with 'open carry' laws

    snip

    There is a strong effort in the Florida Legislature, with a heavy push from the NRA, to pass an "open carry" of firearms bill for holders of the Florida Concealed Weapons Permit. Some proponents say this is necessary to prevent the arrest of CWP holders who may inadvertently, or accidentally expose their firearm. That is a misconception, and is not the law. Others feel it will make defensive use of a firearm safer and easier. That is debatable. However, the vast majority of Florida citizens, including those within the firearms industry, are in opposition. Why?

    snip

    http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...pen-carry-laws

    NOTE- I do not agree with this, just posting the article for you guys to see.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 04-27-2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Note

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    There is a strong effort in the Florida Legislature, with a heavy push from the NRA, to pass an "open carry" of firearms bill for holders of the Florida Concealed Weapons Permit. Some proponents say this is necessary to prevent the arrest of CWP holders who may inadvertently, or accidentally expose their firearm. That is a misconception, and is not the law. Others feel it will make defensive use of a firearm safer and easier. That is debatable. However, the vast majority of Florida citizens, including those within the firearms industry, are in opposition. Why?

    http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...pen-carry-laws
    Open carry (or any other mode of bearing arms) was decided in 1783 and so enumerated as the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution. Let me be REAL CLEAR here... This whole 'permit' nonsense began when legislators began to de-criminalize the practice which had been viewed as devious... altho the 'Right to keep and bear arms' mentions nothing as to how arms were to be carried. There are no caveats to that end... as none were ever intended. However, there are those who never understood (and still don't) that the 'permit' was to conceal... not to 'carry'. The issuance of permit in the free exercise of an enumerated Right is tyranny. It is no longer a right but a government contrivance of permission. Rights do not require 'permission'. Rights only require responsibility. The real misconception is that arms must be carried concealed. The cart is leading the horse.

    Debatable? Are you serious? It's a simple exercise in ergonomics of bringing a weapon to bear w/o having to dig for it or wear excessive clothing to 'hide' it. Hide it from whom? Do LEO's normally carry concealed? Of course not. LEO's carry for self defense... under the same Constitution as everyone else and for the exact same reason. Many of your post Disney 'Florida citizens' are Yankee transplants from states where the 2A is denied by local tyranny. They bring this culture with 'em. No 'law' allows you to open carry... or carry. Laws don't allow... laws restrict, regulate or deny. Y'see that avitar pix? That's a Winchester .30-30 in hand... with a 1911 holstered on my left side. There's no 'law' allowing me to do that. It's a Right. I don't need permission. Nobody should.
    Last edited by Sonora Rebel; 04-26-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    It's a Right. I don't need permission. Nobody should.
    Yeah, but the Fight for Freedom is here. You've already won over there... Wish us luck. We're going to need it.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,004
    It's unbelievable that the writer of the article could be so ignorant of history and be so illogical. Even when I thought OC was tactically stupid, I would never in my wildest dreams want to use the force of the state to make it illegal. This country is in a bad way. With friends like these....
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tampa, Florida, USA
    Posts
    51

    Did not expect this from Mr. Gutmacher

    If you haven't read Mr. Gutmacher's book on Florida concealed carry, I recommend it. It is a great explanation of Florida's concealed carry laws. However, I wonder if the fact that his book is endorsed by no small amount of teachers of Florida's concealed weapons permit classes and is almost considered required reading at some law enforcement academies hasn't tainted his view a bit. Open carry is a better deterrent than concealed carry, period. There are those that say concealed carry gives you the element of surprise, but the element of surprise (which is all concealed carry provides) is an offensive tactic, while deterrence is a defensive tactic. I would rather not have to use the element of surprise if the SOB about to mug/rob/beat me can plainly see that I am armed and not to be trifled with. Not one of the legislators up there in Talla-hustle-me would dare try to tell me that I can only exercise free speech in secret and anonymously or only on my property! Why, then, are they so afraid to see my gun? I think criminals, especially elected ones, need to be reminded now and then that the Second Amendment isn't about hunting or sport, its about reminding those that would harm or oppress us to toe that line!

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069
    Hard to sell your book when it no longer applies and is proven to contain bad info....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Panama City Beach, FL /Home from Afghanistan
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    There is a strong effort in the Florida Legislature, with a heavy push from the NRA, to pass an "open carry" of firearms bill for holders of the Florida Concealed Weapons Permit. Some proponents say this is necessary to prevent the arrest of CWP holders who may inadvertently, or accidentally expose their firearm. That is a misconception, and is not the law. Others feel it will make defensive use of a firearm safer and easier. That is debatable. However, the vast majority of Florida citizens, including those within the firearms industry, are in opposition. Why?

    http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...pen-carry-laws
    Of course you want the status quo. A lawyer, NRA member and CC instructor! Money to be made with CC. The hell with the Second Amendment! Guess what Detroit_fan. . . It is not a privilege to carry a gun. IT"S A RIGHT! Not like driving a car. You just love to have power over people. Why not move to Detroit with all the other people that know "What's Best" and leave us dumb Southern Folks alone! We want OPEN CARRY. UNDERSTAND. IT"S OUR RIGHT. Can you find that in your law books? Look under the Bill of Rights! Oh, I forgot, you’re a lawyer. The Bill of Rights are for interpretation. To be bent for your special purpose! No doubt you’re an Obama/ACLU supporter hiding out in the NRA looking for ways to restrict gun rights. Don't go away mad, just go away. I am so tired of lawyers and Progressives telling me "what's best" for me and telling me what to do and don't need. Please move you smug ass out to California where all socialist bread and leave us to our own course. To think I have been protecting your ass for nearly 30 years (military) so you can try and rise above us to enlighten our ways with your knowledge and lead us to socialism

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    343
    I think Detroit fan is just linking to the story, NOT ascribing to it's message...

  9. #9
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    I think Detroit fan is just linking to the story, NOT ascribing to it's message...
    You are correct! In no way what so ever do I agree with this. I actually posted the first reply to it as oliver wendell douglas. I am 1000% behind the OC movements in all states, but following florida especially close right now(for obvious reasons). I also OC in Michigan quite regularly.

    I hope no one thought I was posting to agree with that garbage!

  10. #10
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by tcfla View Post
    Of course you want the status quo. A lawyer, NRA member and CC instructor! Money to be made with CC. The hell with the Second Amendment! Guess what Detroit_fan. . . It is not a privilege to carry a gun. IT"S A RIGHT! Not like driving a car. You just love to have power over people. Why not move to Detroit with all the other people that know "What's Best" and leave us dumb Southern Folks alone! We want OPEN CARRY. UNDERSTAND. IT"S OUR RIGHT. Can you find that in your law books? Look under the Bill of Rights! Oh, I forgot, you’re a lawyer. The Bill of Rights are for interpretation. To be bent for your special purpose! No doubt you’re an Obama/ACLU supporter hiding out in the NRA looking for ways to restrict gun rights. Don't go away mad, just go away. I am so tired of lawyers and Progressives telling me "what's best" for me and telling me what to do and don't need. Please move you smug ass out to California where all socialist bread and leave us to our own course. To think I have been protecting your ass for nearly 30 years (military) so you can try and rise above us to enlighten our ways with your knowledge and lead us to socialism
    I'm sorry you hate me so much, but I was just posting the link for you guys to see and hopefully comment on.

    BTW-I hate obama, I lived in Tennessee and met my wife there, so I don't consider any southerners "dumb", and I'd rather move to antartica than live in kommiefornia.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    238
    Citizens against it? Really?

    Is that why I haven't seen a single Florida OC poll that wasn't overwhemingly in favor of it?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Panama City Beach, FL /Home from Afghanistan
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    I'm sorry you hate me so much, but I was just posting the link for you guys to see and hopefully comment on.

    BTW-I hate obama, I lived in Tennessee and met my wife there, so I don't consider any southerners "dumb", and I'd rather move to antartica than live in kommiefornia.
    Detroit_fan,

    I apologize to you. I misread your statement as being from you and not you quoting an article. Again, sorry for the attack.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069
    Ah, but we need fire in our veins...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  14. #14
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by tcfla View Post
    Detroit_fan,

    I apologize to you. I misread your statement as being from you and not you quoting an article. Again, sorry for the attack.
    No problem tcfla

  15. #15
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958
    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Yeah, but the Fight for Freedom is here. You've already won over there... Wish us luck. We're going to need it.
    We didn't win... we just never lost it. The 'win' was laid down in 1783.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069
    If sb234 doesn't pass, you may have a new neighbor. ;-)
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •