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Thread: Answers Please, so much grey area.

  1. #1
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    Answers Please, so much grey area.

    Help I'm hoping that answers can be found here.
    My questions are regarding the law and Pretrial Diversion.
    The wonderful US army continued to send pay to a bank account i had after leaving the Army. in 1995 a US attorney contacted and the results of that contact were that I payed the money back to them in one lump sum. however I was set up on a pretrial diversion, by way of complaint, with no finding of guilt. I completed it successfully in june of 1996 (15yrs ago) and it was dismissed. I think it was sealed as well.

    my questions are. In Oklahoma
    Is PTD considered a charge and conviction?
    Have I lost my rights to gun ownership?
    Am I considered a convicted felon?
    Am I now precluded from getting a CCL.

    If this is not considered a conviction, am i required to report it when i apply for ccl?

    thanks for you answers and consideration
    very frustrated

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Was it even charged as a felony?

    Pretrial Diversion is sometimes called a deferred prosecution.
    As long as you completed the terms set forth by the judge then the charged should have been dismissed meaning that its like the whole thing never happened.

    (In most states you only get one of these and only on your first charge)

    As long as the charges were dismissed then there is no reason to have to put it on your CHP application.

    HOWEVER:
    You should contact a lawyer in you area (prefablly county) that is 2A friendly for concrete advice.


    And by the way: Welcome to the forum
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 04-26-2011 at 11:25 PM.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  3. #3
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    Scott thanks for you considered input.
    its been 15 years since i have tried to recall this information,
    I was not ever put in cuffs or, taken to any jail. so my understanding i was not arrested.
    I never stepped foot into a courtroom or before a judge.
    this pretrial situation appears to have been handled between my attorney and the US attorney,
    and the US Probation office oversaw the conditions, which was completed, in fact the US attorney dismissed it prior to the 18 month term because he was satisfied.

    I found the agreement

    the heading calls it a "pretrial diversion".

    in the agreement its later called deferring prosecution.

    the sentence i'm referring to is " it appears that the interest of the united states, defendant's interest, and the interest of justice will be served by deferring prosecution of defendant pending indictment."

    then it goes on to say " upon defendants fulfillment of the terms and conditions of this agreement, no furthis prosecution of the defendant will be pursued in the northern district of oklahoma for the offense described in the preface of this agreement, and federal criminal charges now pending against defendant, if any, will be dismissed.

    I also note that on this agreement there is not a filed in court stamp any where on it.

    the only signatures are myself, my counsel, the us attorney and the us probation officer,,

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    Oh and it was the first and only offense involving me.

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    Ok I was able to speak to the US attorney involved, he said most assuredly I am in the clear, no rights have been removed, I'm neither a felon nor convicted.
    whew!

    catch 22 is i do have to advise the OSBI on the ccl application that I was part of a successful pretrial diversion.

    Now the question remains will Oklahoma allow me a concealed carry license.
    or will they deny my application? simply because i have to answer yes that there was a charge.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmartin39 View Post
    Ok I was able to speak to the US attorney involved, he said most assuredly I am in the clear, no rights have been removed, I'm neither a felon nor convicted.
    whew!

    catch 22 is i do have to advise the OSBI on the ccl application that I was part of a successful pretrial diversion.

    Now the question remains will Oklahoma allow me a concealed carry license.
    or will they deny my application? simply because i have to answer yes that there was a charge.
    Not likely to deny for two reasons.

    Time and no conviction.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  7. #7
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Look up the OK state law. If it is not listed, don't worry about it.

    Were the app asks if you are a conviced felon, say no, as I understand what you said you were not conviced. Also, as this is long past, you are not pending trial either.

    Convicted felon, on trial for a felony (temporary, until conviced or exonerated), or domestic abuse is normally what is required to deny.

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    Thank you everyone for your input.

    as a follow up for people in my situation, I did get a 2 email responses back from SDA and they confirm the information that you have provided.

    With one caveat,
    you must list a charge, or file of information, irregardless of the outcome, even a pretrial diversion.
    if they find a charge, or file of information that you did not disclose your application will be denied.

    I Included the emails that pertain to my situation (only) below, removing the names of those that responded.

    ================================================== ======

    Mr. Martin,

    You must list any arrest, charge, or conviction of any crime, felony or
    misdemeanor you have ever had. If I was applying for a license, I would
    list EVERYTHING. I will tell you if we find an arrest or charge you did
    not list on your application, whether it was dismissed or not, your
    application will be denied.

    Thank you,
    SDA Unit

    ================================================== ====

    Good Morning

    A successful completion would not be a preclusion. However, if the attorney general has told you that the charge was dismissed, see if he can give you some documentation so that you can send in with your application. We canít predetermine an application but successful completion is not a conviction.

    Thanks
    SDA Unit

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