The NEW SB234: A statutory weapon against CCers

firedog · Apr 28, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
The GOA has accomplished what, exactly....ever?

They're not as strong as the NRA I give you that. But, they have pushed pro gun bills without compromise. They have not deviated from true and full 2A rights. Whether it is for the fight against assault weapons ban, the hi cap magazines or any degradation of 2A. Whether you want to carry a 25 or a 44 they support that. NRA supports what they believe they can win. I'm not saying the whole country should boycott the NRA. I just think Florida open carry supporters should send the NRA a message that 2A out ways the NRA desire to claim and tout their victories. The GOA accomplishment do not compare to the NRA but neither does their treasury.

I'm pissed at the NRA and may be over reacting but I do not agree that the NRA was not at fault for the bad amendment and bill. If you watch the session video you will see Hammer leave the floor just before SB234 was introduced. I believe she did that to meet with Bogdenoff and Evers and she (NRA) caved to Bogdenoff in order to score a useless victory in the name of the NRA. Once the NRA caved to Bogdenoff Evers set on his thumbs knowing the NRA was caving. I’m sure he didn’t want to portray two republicans arguing over the same bill on the senate floor.

Had the NRA stood their ground to Bogdenoff and faced the possibility of a defeated bill I think the republicans had the votes to pass it without Bogdenoff and her dumb ass amendment. The NRA caved to tout a victory regardless of the bills dangers or intent.

I find myself repeating myself in multiple threads. Sorry about the soap box..

77zach · Apr 28, 2011

firedog said:
They're not as strong as the NRA I give you that. But, they have pushed pro gun bills without compromise. They have not deviated from true and full 2A rights. Whether it is for the the fight against assault weapons ban, the hi cap magazines or any degradation of 2A. Whether you want to carry a 25 or a 44 they support that. NRA supports what they believe they can win. I'm not saying the whole country should boycott the NRA. I just think Florida open carry supporters should send the NRA a message that 2A out ways the NRA desire to claim and tout their victories. The GOA accomplishment do not compare to the NRA but neither does their treasury.

I'm pissed at the NRA and may be over reacting but I do not agree that the NRA was not at fault for the bad amendment and bill. If you watch the session video you will see Hammer leave the floor just before SB234 was introduced. I believe she did that to meet with Bogdenoff and Evers and she (NRA) caved to Bogdenoff in order to score a useless victory in the name of the NRA. Once the NRA caved to Bogdenoff Evers set on his thumbs knowing the NRA was caving. I’m sure he didn’t want to portray too republicans arguing over the same bill on the senate floor.

Had the NRA stood their ground to Bogdenoff and faced the possibility of a defeated bill I think the republicans had the votes to pass it without Bogdenoff and her dumb ass amendment. The NRA caved to tout a victory regardless of the bills dangers or intent.

I find myself repeating myself in multiple threads. Sorry about the soap box..

I mostly agree. The reason I agree is that what we get out of the new SB 234...... is nothing.

10x · Apr 28, 2011

77zach said:
GOA is a national group, they don't really concentrate at state level.

Do we know if the NRA is satisfied with the new language? Evers does support intentional open carry, or else that original amendment would never have been introduced, the one with the "level 2" holsters and ID display. I think Hammer arguing for our right to open carry would be powerful. Without any of their support we face a tough road. Texas is doing it, but Florida isn't Texas. Sean said he was drafting a bill that might get the FSA off our backs. Good thought, but I don't see how its possible.

Bottom line is that the NRA would be a powerful ally. Does Marion Hammer have an email address at USF or NRA? I can't find one. A little evangelism on our part toward her might be in order. The NRA should be promoting open carry at ever turn. There is no more powerful way to reverse the police state and to make the anti-gunners irrelevant. If guns are normed into every day life, I don't see how "gun control" can survive. Right now, they're dirty evil icky things that we have to hide like our private parts. The message the current open carry law in Florida sends is pretty clear: Guns are evil unless the state has them.

Well said, I agree 100%. As long as guns are hidden away anti-gunners keep breeding!

rvrctyrngr · Apr 28, 2011

firedog said:
They're not as strong as the NRA I give you that. But, they have pushed pro gun bills without compromise. They have not deviated from true and full 2A rights. Whether it is for the fight against assault weapons ban, the hi cap magazines or any degradation of 2A. Whether you want to carry a 25 or a 44 they support that. NRA supports what they believe they can win. I'm not saying the whole country should boycott the NRA. I just think Florida open carry supporters should send the NRA a message that 2A out ways the NRA desire to claim and tout their victories. The GOA accomplishment do not compare to the NRA but neither does their treasury.

I'm pissed at the NRA and may be over reacting but I do not agree that the NRA was not at fault for the bad amendment and bill. If you watch the session video you will see Hammer leave the floor just before SB234 was introduced. I believe she did that to meet with Bogdenoff and Evers and she (NRA) caved to Bogdenoff in order to score a useless victory in the name of the NRA. Once the NRA caved to Bogdenoff Evers set on his thumbs knowing the NRA was caving. I’m sure he didn’t want to portray two republicans arguing over the same bill on the senate floor.

Had the NRA stood their ground to Bogdenoff and faced the possibility of a defeated bill I think the republicans had the votes to pass it without Bogdenoff and her dumb ass amendment. The NRA caved to tout a victory regardless of the bills dangers or intent.

I find myself repeating myself in multiple threads. Sorry about the soap box..

There is much in your post I agree with, firedog, and I respect the hell out of you saying what you have to say. My point is that the GOA is not a visible force in Florida, though I was a member of that organization for well over a decade. Lack of tangible results gave me pause. The NRA is a visible and powerful force here, even though our agendas may not always coincide. We'd still be fighting for state-wide CC if it were not for them.

Oh...you saw Ms. Hammer leave the gallery because we were melting her cell phone with text messages trying to save this thing! ::lol:

Support whom you choose to support, but don't burn bridges unnecessarily.

KBCraig · Apr 28, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
The GOA has accomplished what, exactly....ever?

One thing they've been very successful at, is giving the NRA a counterpart to point at and say, "See? We're being reasonable!"

Now, I think the only reasonable gun control is the text of the 2nd Amendment, which is GOA's position as well, but GOA can scare on-the-fence politicians into supporting the NRA's legislation. They find full firearms freedom much too scary!

Brimstone Baritone · Apr 29, 2011

KBCraig said:
One thing they've been very successful at, is giving the NRA a counterpart to point at and say, "See? We're being reasonable!"

Now, I think the only reasonable gun control is the text of the 2nd Amendment, which is GOA's position as well, but GOA can scare on-the-fence politicians into supporting the NRA's legislation. They find full firearms freedom much too scary!

If that is even partly true, I'm going to have to look into them. I can't stand when people ask us to 'compromise' and 'meet them halfway' when it comes to rights. If I don't think the police should enter my home without a warrant, should I 'compromise' and only let them into the livingroom? Hell no. If I want to go to a Baptist church but the flavor of the month is Catholic, should I compromise and go to a Methodist church? Hell no.

Why, then, is it seen as 'okay' to ask people to compromise their right to self-defense.

What representatives do I need to call to tell them how much Alabama money I won't be spending in Florida this year because of this bill?

KBCraig · Apr 29, 2011

mcdonalk said:
If that is even partly true, I'm going to have to look into them. I can't stand when people ask us to 'compromise' and 'meet them halfway' when it comes to rights.

Just as one example, GOA opposed passage of the Texas CHL law in 1995. Their position was that that requiring a license was just as unconstitutional as the ban on carrying a handgun.

GOA urged just repealing the ban, turning Texas into Vermont-style carry.

ixtow · Apr 29, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
The GOA has accomplished what, exactly....ever?

I don't see them accomplishing anything as the point. I see them more like the guy OCing a semi-auto MG-42. Which should be perfectly OK.

It makes everything else look moderate and not so controversial. If all we present is moderacy, then we end up actually being extremists, as no one is going any farther.

You can't be moderate if you're on the bleeding edge. My AMD-65 Pistol makes your 1911 look like no big deal, and that's the whole point.

j4l · Apr 30, 2011

"What representatives do I need to call to tell them how much Alabama money I won't be spending in Florida this year because of this bill? "

Every single one of em.

rpyne · May 7, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
My point is that the GOA is not a visible force in Florida, though I was a member of that organization for well over a decade.

So organize Gun Owners of Florida.

Negotiate Rights Away is not the friend of 2nd Amendment they try to portray themselves to be.

brboyer · May 7, 2011

rpyne said:
So organize Gun Owners of Florida.

Negotiate Rights Away is not the friend of 2nd Amendment they try to portray themselves to be.

Here is a specialized version:

Florida Carry, Inc.
http://www.floridacarry.org

vermonter · May 8, 2011

"New Jersey with Palm Trees". Thats b/call of New Jersey has moved there! Now they are moving to North Carolina to ruin that too like they did in Florida, Vermont etc. New Jersey is all foreigners now, all the "white guilt" libs have taken over other states! So let me ask a Q.... Why is CCW in FL now dangerous for the carrier? What bill was pushed that got the ball rolling on this? I am tired of all the no gun signs showing up all over b/c of the agenda of a few who keep pushing. Vermont has NEVER been an issue, but now it is. They are thinking about banning on Church St now b/c people have scared the sheep.... Perhaps in Texas we can push for elimination of the "printing" statute instead of shoving our own foot up our %#@^!

j4l · May 8, 2011

vermonter said:
"New Jersey with Palm Trees". Thats b/call of New Jersey has moved there! Now they are moving to North Carolina to ruin that too like they did in Florida, Vermont etc. New Jersey is all foreigners now, all the "white guilt" libs have taken over other states! So let me ask a Q.... Why is CCW in FL now dangerous for the carrier? What bill was pushed that got the ball rolling on this? I am tired of all the no gun signs showing up all over b/c of the agenda of a few who keep pushing. Vermont has NEVER been an issue, but now it is. They are thinking about banning on Church St now b/c people have scared the sheep.... Perhaps in Texas we can push for elimination of the "printing" statute instead of shoving our own foot up our %#@^!

Simply put- our govt tried to put through a bill that would allow for OC- or so they promoted it to get the support of folks like us. Ended up being a bill to allow for vaguely-phrased "brief" exposure during concealed carry.Supposedly to reduce/prevent folks being detained/arrested for carrying "openly" if,say, your shirt moved or lifted-revealing your pistol. (a non-issue to begin with,but seized upon- by some- so as to appear pro -2a).
They debated it (half-assed) watered it down, and then put it out as "protected" CC-but, they botched the wording of it so as to allow cops a lot of wiggle-room in determining what "brief" is. Hence what may actually be .05 of a second to you me and anyone else, can now-in theory-be decided by a cop is much much too long-and arrest you.

j4l · May 10, 2011

Understood. Ive not been one of those who felt-in the lead-up to this- that cops would be gunning for us the moment we strapped,if the bill passed. Often , in the "what if stopped" posts, I was telling folks to chill, this isnt NY/MD./Cali etc.

However, I do acknowledge that the rather vague wording of this bill, as it turned out,
does leave a bit too much wiggle-room for the hard charging/rookie-types with a ****-** against folks carrying.

The NEW SB234: A statutory weapon against CCers

firedog

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77zach

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10x

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rvrctyrngr

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KBCraig

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Brimstone Baritone

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KBCraig

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ixtow

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j4l

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rpyne

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brboyer

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vermonter

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j4l

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j4l

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