The NEW SB-234

GIdeon_70 · Apr 27, 2011

D a m n!!!

RRobaldo said:
They've posted the NEW text of SB-234.

While it is absolutely NOT what we wanted. I believe it is still basically a "good" bill and is a step in the correct direction.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/0234/BillText/e1/PDF

It's a useless pile of words that is still steaming. It does nothing for us, nothing at all. It should be opposed, and Greg Evers should be contacted and asked to pull the bill. I am so pissed off right now that I'm seeing red!~

FzSBLACKMAGICK · Apr 27, 2011

I had to go to work earlier, I see they adopted the amendment. Stabbed in the back by our own.

Oh well, I really liked Florida but I can't stay here now. Plans will change accordingly.

For those to whom Florida will always be home, I suggest trying to get this bill voted down, it looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

BTW is OC while fishing and hunting even still legal if this gets passed? By the wording it looks like it might not be.

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

GIdeon_70 said:
It's a useless pile of words that is still steaming. It does nothing for us, nothing at all. It should be opposed, and Greg Evers should be contacted and asked to pull the bill. I am so pissed off right now that I'm seeing red!~

Oh, it does something for us alright... It does something TO us.

During their lobbying the LEOs touted their own inability to get any of us prosecuted under their bogus arrests for accidental exposure. We had precedent that at least kept us out of jail.

The new subjective language created by this amendment hands our heads to them on a silver platter.

They turned a freedom bill into a weapon against decent citizens. Even with a permit and aboding all laws, you can still go to jail based on a cop or 911 caller lying about your conduct. It's Carte Blanche to fabricate whatever they want. Before, we at least had the precedent... Not now. It's Open Season on CCers. The opposite of what they claimed the amendment's intent was.

~*'Phoenix'*~ · Apr 27, 2011

mach1chris said:
Im sorry guys... I know how down you all must feel, most of you are very angry, but try and look at this in a more positive manner.Before you couldnt expose your weapon at all, now at least it kinda protects you if you happen to display it..

The only problem that I see in this amendment, is that there is no real way for the officer to tell if it was accidental brife display or not. This again leaves it to the officer to decide if it was or not. I spoke to Mr.Rice and even gave him my own input on this whole thing. He was very sorry to say that sen.Evers wasnt sure if he had enough votes to pass the bill as a all out open carry verson.

Sen.Evers never agreed with her on anything but didn't want the bill to go to waste. You really have to give it to him for at least trying. That being said, I dont think open carry is over just yet, they are still chipping away at the wall that leads to open carry.

I understand you guys must be depressed, but as law-abiding and honorable citizens as all of you are... you must obey the law, carry responsibly and set the example..

I cannot begin to say how I feel. Most of the words would be censored or hateful and I will not share these feelings, even to those who would be sympathetic to them. This bill is ruined, and along with it any hope I had for freedom in this state. Unfortunately, wiithout true open carry, this bill does nothing. All it's provisions are already either in place or not enforcible.
I will continue to obey the evil, oppressive, statist, fascist laws I live under, but will begin doing everything I can to get out from under the heel of this state, or run for office to rid us of these oppressors.

brboyer · Apr 27, 2011

RRobaldo said:
Uhm... Yes there is. Right now, an EMPLOYEE can have his firearm in his vehicle on company property. But a PATRON CANNOT!

Under the new law, I can have my gun IN my car wherever I go.

So, Yeah, I would call that a good thing.

You are mistaken. Please tell me what statute I will be charged under if I have a securely encased firearm in my car in the mall parking lot.

ETA: I assume you are referring to 790.251, right? If so here is a link to the statute. Please copy and paste the section I will be charged under and the associated penalty, please.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.251.html

The continued mischaracterization of the actual scope of 790.251 simply amazes me!

GIdeon_70 · Apr 27, 2011

RRobaldo said:
They've posted the NEW text of SB-234.

While it is absolutely NOT what we wanted. I believe it is still basically a "good" bill and is a step in the correct direction.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/0234/BillText/e1/PDF

Look, being 100% serious here.
I listened to the NRA rep address the senate committees, and saw Greg Evers stand in front of everyone and make a apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidental exposing their firearm. The Bill may have been WORDED as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill because it was never spoken of that way. it was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was saying about it. In other words, they tried to get sneaky, and were called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proved that the reps were afraid of doing it in the first place and felt the need to defend themselves before the ink was dry on the demand.

So now, what do we have. We can carry to the park and go fishing, and once we could do it openly, but NOW, if you have a CCW, and you expose it INTENTIONALLY, then you are committing a crime? They just wrote away some of our rights!!!!!!! And if we don't stop this travesty from being passed, it is just going to hurt every CCW holder in Florida!

Look, this bill was supposed to help us, and what it is doing now is hurting us by making what was once legal, illegal. No more open carry at ALL if you have a CCW - even when it WAS allowed before.

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

mach1chris said:
Im sorry guys... I know how down you all must feel, most of you are very angry, but try and look at this in a more positive manner.Before you couldnt expose your weapon at all, now at least it kinda protects you if you happen to display it..

Actually, it does the opposite. Since the qualities and 'mood' of that exposure are pivotal to weather that exception applies or not, and said 'mood' and qualities are unprovable and subjective; it eliminates what little protection under precedent we previously had.

The FSA touted their own inability to make charges stick as 790.06 was already written. This injects the unprovable subjectivity they needed to breach that.

Open Season on CCers.

Back when the matter wasn't even addressed, the LEOs had no say. Judges said "Hey, this isn't in the spirit or intent of the law, go screw yourselves. Dismissed." Now, the LEO's opinion/lies or the 911 Callers' opinion/lies become a consideration where they weren't before.

Just look back through the lobbying the FSA and other LEOs did during committee to see exactly what those opinions/lies are going to be...

CC isn't a safe thing to do anymore. even if you follow the letter of the law.

brboyer · Apr 27, 2011

GIdeon_70 said:
Look, being 100% serious here.
I listened to the NRA rep address the senate committees, and saw Greg Evers stand in front of everyone and make a apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidental exposing their firearm. The Bill may have been WORDED as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill because it was never spoken of that way. it was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was saying about it. In other words, they tried to get sneaky, and were called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proved that the reps were afraid of doing it in the first place and felt the need to defend themselves before the ink was dry on the demand.

So now, what do we have. We can carry to the park and go fishing, and once we could do it openly, but NOW, if you have a CCW, and you expose it INTENTIONALLY, then you are committing a crime? They just wrote away some of our rights!!!!!!! And if we don't stop this travesty from being passed, it is just going to hurt every CCW holder in Florida!

Look, this bill was supposed to help us, and what it is doing now is hurting us by making what was once legal, illegal. No more open carry at ALL if you have a CCW - even when it WAS allowed before.

Yes, the bill sucks, but no. Open carry under the existing provisions 790.25 are still perfectly legal and not impacted by this bill.

77zach · Apr 27, 2011

GIdeon_70 said:
Look, being 100% serious here.
I listened to the NRA rep address the senate committees, and saw Greg Evers stand in front of everyone and make a apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidental exposing their firearm. The Bill may have been WORDED as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill because it was never spoken of that way. it was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was saying about it. In other words, they tried to get sneaky, and were called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proved that the reps were afraid of doing it in the first place and felt the need to defend themselves before the ink was dry on the demand.

So now, what do we have. We can carry to the park and go fishing, and once we could do it openly, but NOW, if you have a CCW, and you expose it INTENTIONALLY, then you are committing a crime? They just wrote away some of our rights!!!!!!! And if we don't stop this travesty from being passed, it is just going to hurt every CCW holder in Florida!

Look, this bill was supposed to help us, and what it is doing now is hurting us by making what was once legal, illegal. No more open carry at ALL if you have a CCW - even when it WAS allowed before.

Pretty much the opposite of what was done in the House. We need Dorworth and Baxley to become Senators. The House was more concerned with our Rights and even netted some democrats.

This was a tall order folks. I just see this as a non-bill now. I don't think it will mean open season on CCers. I think it means nothing will change at all.

A tall order. What is the most pro gun state in the Union? Montana? Let's say by some weirdness Montana made OC accidentally illegal today and it stayed that way for 23 years because no one really cared. I'd wager that after the 23 years if somebody brought up a bill to legalize OC again, they'd be looked at like they have 3 heads. Given Florida's population and demographics, it is amazing we made it this far.

OC has been debated in the Fl legislature. That's something I didn't think would ever happen.

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

77zach said:
I don't think it will mean open season on CCers. I think it means nothing will change at all.

The circumstances and charges which previously didn't fly, now will. The LEOs have made it their mission, and openly declared such, to be on the warpath against carriers.

I'm of half a mind to send back my CWFL and call the $117 a loss. I'm better off carrying without a license.

hammer6 · Apr 27, 2011

ixtow said:
The circumstances and charges which previously didn't fly, now will. The LEOs have made it their mission, and openly declared such, to be on the warpath against carriers.

I'm of half a mind to send back my CWFL and call the $117 a loss. I'm better off carrying without a license.

how? unless that was sarcastic...i'm not feeling well so my sarcasm detector is malfunctioned...

hammer6 · Apr 27, 2011

oh well

http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html

lowlux · Apr 27, 2011

Call or email rick scott sb-234

IF SB-234 is NOT A OPEN CARRY BILL, we need to call and tell RICK SCOTT to trash the damn thing.

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

hammer6 said:
how? unless that was sarcastic...i'm not feeling well so my sarcasm detector is malfunctioned...

As 790.06 is currently written, it doesn't address accidental exposure at all. Judges have ruled that accidents are not within the spirit or intent of the law. So, the bogus charges don't stick.

With this bill as amended, the LEOs get to add in their own opinion of your intent to determine if the now statutory exception applies to you or not. They have made their position on how they intend to abuse this very clear over the past 24 years, and very vocally during committee debates.

The bill, as amended, serves no other purpose.

brboyer · Apr 27, 2011

hammer6 said:
how? unless that was sarcastic...i'm not feeling well so my sarcasm detector is malfunctioned...

Not sarcastic at all. The unconstitutionally vague wording of 'Brief", "Unintentional", "Accidental" are open to interpertaion...

At dinner tonight, I asked my wife (a very reasonable person) what time period 'Brief' is...she said "Well that depends...could mean seconds, hours or days...everyone would have a different opinion."

Someone famous (I forget who) said something to the effect "Time is relative. Put your hand on a hot stove: A second will seems like hours. Talk to a pretty girl for hours: It seems like only minutes."

Liberty 1st · Apr 27, 2011

Not a surprise

StogieC said:
It not an open carry bill anymore.

While some might be surprised, I was not fooled. This almost seemed planned to the end game. See it was not the liberals, nor the LEOs that were walking around asking the bill be killed. In the end it we were simply betrayed. Our trust is what led us to where we are. In the end those who said they would stand up for our rights did not. They continue time and time again to stomp on us, they do it because they know they will get away with it every single time. I for one stopped believing politicians :cuss: a while ago, I suggest people learn from their mistakes. I don't understand how a right under the constitution can come and go on the whim of a single woman. Does no one else see what is wrong with that picture? That is because there was a lot more than just one woman behind it. $$$$$. Think about it

red light cameras are just money mills. Won't be long before we get a gun tax like cigarets and so on.

rvrctyrngr · Apr 27, 2011

brboyer said:
Not sarcastic at all. The unconstitutionally vague wording of 'Brief", "Unintentional", "Accidental" are open to interpertaion...

At dinner tonight, I asked my wife (a very reasonable person) what time period 'Brief' is...she said "Well that depends...could mean seconds, hours or days...everyone would have a different opinion."

Someone famous (I forget who) said something to the effect "Time is relative. Put your hand on a hot stove: A second will seems like hours. Talk to a pretty girl for hours: It seems like only minutes."

Your wife is a wise lady, sir. That whole marrying you thing notwithstanding.

I probably won't feel good about this whole mess until I see Capt. Fewless in handcuffs answering to 3 felony charges.

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

Liberty 1st said:
While some might be surprised, I was not fooled. This almost seemed planned to the end game.

I called it exactly that back in October.

brboyer · Apr 27, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
Your wife is a wise lady, sir. That whole marrying you thing notwithstanding.

I probably won't feel good about this whole mess until I see Capt. Fewless in handcuffs answering to 3 felony charges.

That reminds me...Did we ever get a legal opinion from an attorney about the lobbying issue?

ixtow · Apr 27, 2011

rvrctyrngr said:
I probably won't feel good about this whole mess until I see Capt. Fewless in handcuffs answering to 3 felony charges.

Never gonna happen. Even if the evidence supports it. The SA simply won't charge him. I was told as much when asking about my FOIAs in reference to lobbying reimbursement.

"Doesn't matter what you find, we won't touch them."

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