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Thread: Seattle PD, the Rotten Onion

  1. #1
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Seattle PD, the Rotten Onion

    And the more it's peeled, the more rotten it appears.

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/27696228/detail.html

    Seems like Shandy "I'll beat the Mexican Piss out of You" Cobane is in the news again. Alledged to have choked a subject just for the fun of it and his "dash cam" magically was not working.

    Harrell said he saw the footage of Rengo's arrest and while he wouldn't say if city policy was violated, he did say that the entire matter could have been avoided if officers were equipped with body cameras.
    Yeah! Sure! The body cams that have a shutter on the front that the officer can merely slide up over the lens to stop any recording. Until these body cams are made tamper proof with batteries that will last an entire shift they will be the same as the dash cams. "Oops" I forgot to point the car towards the subject's car", "the subject moved off to the side", "I don't know how it got turned off" are excuses today. Wonder what excuses will be put forth when the "body cams" are issued. Of course we could try a new concept. Stop hiring cops that behave like Cobane and fire anyone that refuses to report actions like his. Even consider a lawsuit against the Unions that try to protect those that step outside the law.

    When the "Onion" is peeled with the Seattle PD it will reveal what we all suspect. That it's rotten to the core. I'd love to be proved wrong but until I see officers like Shandy Cobane and the numerous others that have protected him kicked to the curb I hold my beliefs.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I saw this last night on the news, this so called officer needs to be suspended immediately and charges sought.
    It is clear he is in a culture of acting outside of the law and getting his training from poor movie selection!
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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    When the "Onion" is peeled with the Seattle PD it will reveal what we all suspect. That it's rotten to the core. I'd love to be proved wrong but until I see officers like Shandy Cobane and the numerous others that have protected him kicked to the curb I hold my beliefs.
    http://www.seattle.gov/police/contact/location/default.htm

    "Seattle is divided into five different Precinct areas, and these facilities provide the city with 24 hour a day patrol services.
    The Police Headquarters facility, houses administrative and investigative units. Public services are provided in the lobby by the Public Request Unit."

    I have no idea how many officers they employee but by your investigation there isn't a single good COP in Seattle? You may be more believable; if ď"Widespread" were used as did the Knapp Commission, but rotten to the core suggests every single COP in Seattle!
    Seattle Gun owners are rotten to the core, I donít think so.

  4. #4
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post

    I have no idea how many officers they employee but by your investigation there isn't a single good COP in Seattle? You may be more believable; if “"Widespread" were used as did the Knapp Commission, but rotten to the core suggests every single COP in Seattle!
    Seattle Gun owners are rotten to the core, I don’t think so.
    My "To the Core" comment was meant to imply that the "rot" goes just exactly there. To the core meaning the culture within the department. From the Union which has their "front man" defending every officers bad actions as caught on tape to the management that refuses to take timely action, hoping public opinion will cool off or be diverted. How long has this one officer been doing what he seems to do best, abuse subjects, without anything but a wrist slap and a forced tearful apology? How many more incidents has he been involved in where the camera was magically "malfunctioning"?

    What should exist in the Department is a culture of "We won't stand for this, we're all men/women of honor". Instead we have supervisors or senior officers advising that fellow officers not report what they see. THAT should also be an offense subject to termination except for the existing "Culture" and Union meddling.

    For some of the younger people here, you ought to go back to the newspaper archives and read about the corruption in SPD from the 60's. Also some of the physical abuses that occurred back then. One "Captain" even left the country to avoid prosecution. I've had long conversations with a retired (35 year vet) officer of the SPD. Even he is appalled by the "culture of cover-up" that exists at all the levels even to this day.

    It would be nice if the Justice Department investigation could do something about it but all in all it will most likely be a case of their dropping in, ride around, interview a few, look at some video, write a report, and then leave it all up to the PD to take action.

    What's is too bad is that the existing culture forces those officers that do go about their jobs legitimately, and with the public welfare in mind, to keep quiet or face the wrath of those who believe that Police Officers don't blow the whistle on other Police Officers. Call it the Serpico syndrome if you will.
    Last edited by amlevin; 04-28-2011 at 06:20 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Just seems to have the ripeness to start the COP bashers on another rant. Since the OC element is complete missing, IMO. I may have posted in Social Lounge, but thatís just me!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    What does this have to do with OC?

    LEO bashing is not allowed.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    What does this have to do with OC?

    LEO bashing is not allowed.
    Agree with the first sentence somewhat.

    Don't feel this is LEO bashing though, he is pointing out a very specific problem in a very large police force. More often than not Amlevin has been on the opposing viewpoint as me concerning police actions.

    I may be grasping at straws and Amlevin can correct me if I am wrong but maybe he feels like I do, that only people we really have to deal with in OC'ing is LEO. And if they continue with corrupt practices and allow "****** bags" like this to continue to be top dogs and unaccounted for in there actions it presents a large danger to OC'ers and their legally protected method of carry. I think were our opinions strongly differ is I am for drastically down sizing the number and reducing the powers these so called "authorities" have over us.

    Jbone is right this does probably belong in Social Lounge only thing is that many Washington forum members here don't regular peruse those threads to see if there is anything of interest to them.

    On a positive note I had another pleasant encounter with WSP at Starbucks the other day I mentioned it in my courthouse thread.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    Just seems to have the ripeness to start the COP bashers on another rant. Since the OC element is complete missing, IMO. I may have posted in Social Lounge, but thatís just me!
    I am open carrying while reading this and nothing happened.
    This thread now has an open carry element...
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    98% of all the officers I have seen are open carriers. I think there is perfect relevance.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Agree with the first sentence somewhat.

    Don't feel this is LEO bashing though, he is pointing out a very specific problem in a very large police force. More often than not Amlevin has been on the opposing viewpoint as me concerning police actions.

    I may be grasping at straws and Amlevin can correct me if I am wrong but maybe he feels like I do, that only people we really have to deal with in OC'ing is LEO.
    Seattle PD, at the official level, has never been a fan of OC. Comments from their top officers, including a former chief, stating that OC'ers would be dealt with severely pretty much set the tone.

    The shooting of John Williams was widely discussed here. For all practical purposes, this news story is just a continuation of the discussion on the problems in SPD that led to his shooting and continue on today in the attitudes of some officers.

    As for Cop Bashing, since when is it "bashing" when it it the truth? Incident after incident in Seattle from stomping on a prone'd out subject (not just one officer but two), choking for the fun of it, kicking a person with his hands up and surrendering, abusing a subject in a wheel chair, are all just a few of the incidents that have been reported recently. How about the incident where SPD officers shot and killed a subject who was threatening suicide? I guess that's one way to stop him.

    Read the article I linked to. Especially the part where "There were gang unit officers who specifically told arresting officers not to give statements."

    Let's see now. Statements become part of the record and are available to not only the public but attorneys that might be suing the City. So lets make sure that our actions are not subject to FOIA or Discovery.

    Yes, everyone who OC's in Seattle, and runs afoul of an SPD officer that has a hard-on for anyone other than a Cop carrying a gun, is at risk of the same treatment that has been reported. It won't be during public events where there are lots of cameras present, or the risk that they are, it will be that encounter at night while shopping, leaving a movie, a traffic stop, or just plain going about your business.

    There are lots of good cops who work hard to do a good job. Too bad that there aren't enough of them in Seattle and the old culture of "don't rat us out" still exists. If anyones rights are being violated, what's to keep it from happening to you?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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  11. #11
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Move or Delete

    amlevin,
    I admire your concern with SPD, I too feel they have serious issues. But trying to make yours an OC topic, in the Washington forum is far stretched. Not to mentioned as I stated earlier it smells like a bashing topic.

    I vote to have it removed, or moved to Social Lounge.
    Last edited by jbone; 04-29-2011 at 11:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    amlevin,
    I admire your concern with SPD, I too feel they have serious issues. But trying to make yours an OC topic, in the Washington forum is far stretched. Not to mentioned as I stated earlier it smells like a bashing topic.

    I vote to have it removed, or moved to Social Lounge.
    Did you feel the same when the "Woodcarver" thread was going on for hundreds of posts? The only firearm involved in this thread was that which killed him, the cops.

    Any issue with a Police Department that makes their own rules as they go is an issue to OC.

    Keeping an issue alive and in front of people is not "Bashing". There is nothing the SPD would like more than for all these incidents to just go away. To not be discussed or reported on by the media. Right now they are hoping that the Justice Department people will just do their work, write their report, and go away so they can return to business as usual.

    BTW, if you have a better topic to discuss, by all means post it. Then this thread will just die and fade away into the archives, like SPD wishes their problems would.
    Last edited by amlevin; 04-29-2011 at 11:16 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I don't' remember where the Woodcarver topic was, I went back 13 pages and found nothing, my lacking search skill revealed nothing. If it was in the Washington section than yes it was in the wrong place, OC with a Knife is no more a topic then the OC with long gun, or sword, that I believe ALL get deleted.

    If it was presented properly and lacked the bashing atmosphere then I would highly agree it deserves discussion rights in social.

    But your doing a good job of keeping me in a topic I think is OT for it's WA listing. But I'm out now!

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I don't' remember where the Woodcarver topic was, I went back 13 pages and found nothing, my lacking search skill revealed nothing. If it was in the Washington section than yes it was in the wrong place, OC with a Knife is no more a topic then the OC with long gun, or sword, that I believe ALL get deleted.

    If it was presented properly and lacked the bashing atmosphere then I would highly agree it deserves discussion rights in social.

    But your doing a good job of keeping me in a topic I think is OT for it's WA listing. But I'm out now!
    Heres the link http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ght=woodcarver

    YOU may feel it shouldn't be here but the thread has drawn over 15,000 views and almost 500 posts. The thread is still open. Apparently others feel it was relevant.

    To further support the article I linked in my OP, here's more.

    "Cops Gone Wild"

    http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-02...ops-gone-wild/
    Last edited by amlevin; 04-29-2011 at 01:48 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    To me, part of the solution would be finding out and uncovering those attitudes which cause the cops to act as they do.

    Is it an 'us v.s. them' situation?

    Is it an elitist position?

    Is it an anger management problem? Lack of support from the command staff?

    Are these incidents tacitly approved by the command staff? It seems to me that unless upper management approved these harsh tactics they wouldn't be happening. Indeed, when you look at many of the 'board reviews' from IAD where they figure out a way to call something very heinous as 'justified' that there is an elitist and separatist attitude.

    IMO one of the biggest problems is that the cops stop being able to discern the ordinary citizen (who may be making a mistake) from a recidivistic predator type who might engender a harsher approach.

    How often do we see that LEOs exacerbate the situation by trying to cowboy up and not call for back up and be patient and let some guy with a butter knife get tired. Instead they act with extreme prejudice failing to remember they should be there to protect and serve their public. There are many cases where an overwhelming show of force would solve problems that are created by a lone officer trying to solve everything with an attitude and a handgun.

    It's hard to blame the LEOs on the street if they are not getting backup, are not being paid enough or educated enough. But I think part of the problem is the selection process where they select for big tough steroid-abuser types and not for educated, patient people with a law background.

    To illustrate my thought here's an example:
    Seattle artist Maikoiyo Alley-Barnes received a $185,000 settlement in 2007 from the department after filing a federal civil-rights lawsuit over his 2005 arrest. He was badly beaten, and photos of his bloodied, swollen, puffed-up face made him a poster boy for police brutality. Dash-cam audio/video of the incident in a Capitol Hill alley revealed blows being struck and a woman saying "Oh, my God!" while Alley-Barnes pleads with officers to "please stop kicking me!"

    Police withheld the video until three days into Alley-Barnes' municipal court trial, leading to dismissal of the case. ThenĖChief Kerlikowske, now President Obama's drug czar, refused to discipline any of the officers even though punishment had been recommended by an internal investigator.
    (bolding is mine)

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    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 04-29-2011 at 07:18 PM.

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    I liked the comment "co-operate, even if the cops are wrong."

    HUH?

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Nope didn't see any bashing, but I see a subject sensitive to police apologist who want to play see no hear no speak no evil (think the monkeys with hands over eyes, ears and mouth) about a very ingrained problem not only in SPD but in many LEA's.

    The only way to deal with these problems is to point them out to our communities. OC is a community and we are active, and we can be and are affected by the actions of cops like this. Knowledge is power.

    Now Amlevin you can see why I am very dubious of "police reports", you point out the very reasons why in this thread, I will not ever take a police report for the truth, ever. It must be substantiated with other evidence other wise I will always give the "civilian" the benefit of the doubt.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 04-30-2011 at 01:45 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    http://www.seattle.gov/police/contact/location/default.htm

    "Seattle is divided into five different Precinct areas, and these facilities provide the city with 24 hour a day patrol services.
    The Police Headquarters facility, houses administrative and investigative units. Public services are provided in the lobby by the Public Request Unit."

    I have no idea how many officers they employee but by your investigation there isn't a single good COP in Seattle? You may be more believable; if ď"Widespread" were used as did the Knapp Commission, but rotten to the core suggests every single COP in Seattle!
    Seattle Gun owners are rotten to the core, I donít think so.
    There is a tipping point of corruption and criminality beyond which the individual officer no longer matters. You may have heard of the Chicago Police Department. Or not.

    Once the level of corruption and contempt for the law reaches a certain magnitude, it becomes self-sustaining like a nuclear reaction. This is what happened in the Catholic Church with pedophile priests. Once you get enough corrupt actors in the mix, they achieve positions of responsibility over hiring and promotion. Whom do you think THEY favor?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=sudden valley gunner;1520198]Nope didn't see any bashing, but I see a subject sensitive to police apologist who want to play see no hear no speak no evil (think the monkeys with hands over eyes, ears and mouth) about a very ingrained problem not only in SPD but in many LEA's.

    QUOTE]

    eye95 will soon ride to the rescue of the hero cops "serving and protecting." The POS who killed the woodcarver, btw, has just cost taxpayers $1.5M in a settlement of the lawsuit. Now if we had Feds with any balls, he'd be going to prison for 20 years under 18 USC 241, as well.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Gunslinger;1521690]
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Nope didn't see any bashing, but I see a subject sensitive to police apologist who want to play see no hear no speak no evil (think the monkeys with hands over eyes, ears and mouth) about a very ingrained problem not only in SPD but in many LEA's.

    QUOTE]

    eye95 will soon ride to the rescue of the hero cops "serving and protecting." The POS who killed the woodcarver, btw, has just cost taxpayers $1.5M in a settlement of the lawsuit. Now if we had Feds with any balls, he'd be going to prison for 20 years under 18 USC 241, as well.
    I am not sure of the status at the moment but John T. Williams family (the woodcarver) are or were pursuing private prosecution. I hope they are successful because this will help us bring about prosecution to many cops who continually break laws with no fear of reprisal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=sudden valley gunner;1521777]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post

    I am not sure of the status at the moment but John T. Williams family (the woodcarver) are or were pursuing private prosecution. I hope they are successful because this will help us bring about prosecution to many cops who continually break laws with no fear of reprisal.
    This might depend on the terms of the settlement. If it was made to settle ALL actions, both against the City of Seattle and Ian Birk then there won't be any "private prosecution".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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