Why would anyone carry in a church?

Depends on your state. In Michigan, it's this--> MCL 28.425o (snip) (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.


IMO, it should absolutely be covered by freedom of religion, and the second amendment.

They are in fact, prohibiting the practice of sound doctrine which in any form, is blatantly against the first amendment.

In terms of doctrine, a church isn't a place anyhow, see cite --->Matthew 18:20 King James Bible
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Where is the building? property? facility?

The church is called the body of Christ, and it is NOT a building!

1 Corinthians 12:12-27 (King James Version)


12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


Ephesians 4 12,
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

How do you edify a building?

"The church is called the body of Christ, and it is NOT a building!"

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Correct. The church is the body of Christ. It is a called out body of people of all nations who have been born again and who live a true Christian life. It is all those who are alive and in Christ.

If one is a believer, then God is in favour of self defence! Scripture teaches us to be armed and able to defend ourselves. What true minister or follower of Christ and believer in God would think they know more than God Himself and want to ban people from being able to do just that if and when attacked regardless of what building they are in?

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36). Haz.

When I was arrested for OC at a church last summer (04JUL) "why did you carry a gun in a church" was a common question from reporters.

I didn't "carry a gun to church".
I carried like I normally do, and I went to church.
There's a difference.
I did what I normally do - being ready to protect myself - where I happened to be that day - at a church.

I've seen & read enough news reports to know that criminals will strike anywhere, and they're most attracted to places they think they'll not be confronted or harmed.
Churches are not exempt. In fact, they're a favorite target because of the large number of people, generally presumed to be unable to defend themselves, and those collection plates full of cash. Then there's the shock value of mass murder in a church.

+1

If we could just convince the religious voters of this country to follow the instructions in the Bible, AND to stand up for the first amendment alone, there would be enough votes to decimate the anti viewpoint and the infringements that come with it. :exclaim:

arentol said:

The question should be "Why wouldn't people carry in a church?"

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Don't you mean "Why would people go to church?"

Well I rather be an open sinner than a false saint. A big reason I left corporate religion is so many has perverted what the bible clearly states as right and wrong. So many churches have selectively ignored many parts of the bible because simple they do not like what the bible says what they are doing is wrong. I have seen way to many "Christians” have an attitude of holier than thou and stick their noises where it does not belong. Instead, they need to make sure their own house is in order before trying to condemn other around them. I believe in God, but only God can Judge me. All others who say I am going to hell for this or that can shove it. The constant hypocrites that come up to me and others has burned my trust of religion in general. A another sore point I have is they push and push giving to the church, yet you have pastors making off like bandits. Yet when you go to the church asking for assistance not even monetary assistance they have their deacons have what I consider a congressional vote on wither the church should get involved or not. The modern church that is present today is not even worth wasting your time, your better off having private bible study's with friends and family who want to study Gods word with out the hypocrites telling you that your going to hell and the church pushing harder for your money than the IRS does. Yet when the time comes that you need help the church acts like they don't know you that they can't do anything for you, but don't forget the bible says you need to continue to give to the church.

Reminds me of this.

YOU TELL ME THAT I SIN,
YOU SAY I AM BOUND FOR HELL,
SO ONCE YOUR JUDGEMENT CONDEMNS YOU,
I SHALL SEE YOU THERE.

QUOTE-THORN

This is not exactly a new problem.

stainless1911 said:

This is not exactly a new problem.

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Agreed, but it is openly accepted in many groups as normal and when people show the churches and their members that the bible clearly states that they are in the wrong. Your again told your going to hell and that you just don't understand what your talking about, that you just need to sit there and shut up. That you just need to be a good little servant of God and stopping bring unwanted attention to the church.

Agreed, but I think it would be better if instead of staying away, those of us who know better, should try to change it.

I have been part of a few churches with that had that mindset to correct those problems that so many churches accept. The one church I was a part of started out quite small and the church grew quite large just by word a mouth and many of the members came from churches that we had discussed so far. Yet even this church fell into the same corruption that we fought against. I have seen it time and time again, so many Christians long for a church like that but when they get so large "mega church" it gets out of control and its and never ending cycle. I strictly attend a small 15 person bible study and it has none of the issues of corruption.

That's the truth. I'm looking for a church group again right now.

I always carry to church. My church has a congregation of 1. Invitations to join are not under consideration.

technically in the state of Maine you must bring a gun to church. There is an old 1700-1800's law that was never taken down stating that every man must bring a shotgun to church on sundays incase of indian attacks. Now i do not believe any Native americans are going to attack a church. however the KKK might.........then i would love to have a shotgun handy ;-)

When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

The Bible is chock full of Scriptures teaching mankind to be armed and prepared for anything, anywhere.

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: (Luke 11:21);

"But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils."(Luke 11:22).

"He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Luke 11:23).

your better off having private bible study's with friends and family who want to study Gods word with out the hypocrites

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I don't think one has to attend church to accept their savior... but it can't hurt... If you are actually taking the time to have small group meetings, than you're doing more than most.

I just think you havne't found a cool church yet.

Christians SHOULD judge other christians.. but only out of love and in steering that person back towards the path. Condemning them to hell is stupid because it's not true. The only path to heaven leads through Christ. Once you accept Christ as your savior that can never be taken away.

At least that's what my church says... and that's backed up by scripture.

Thats all true HK. Jesus expects us to have fellowship with the believers. If the church isnt working, and small groups are bringing more fruit, thrn I think that would be actually preferred to going to a "traditional" church.

I saw a light bulb over my wife's head turn on today. She finally relized that defending one's self, family, and property with a leathal weapon was extremely biblical (1st Timothy 5:8). Also, God required us to defend to the death if need be. But, using a weapon out side of defense i.e. murder is a sin, "who ever lives by the sword, dies by the sword" Matt. 26:52.

carry for myself said:

technically in the state of Maine you must bring a gun to church. There is an old 1700-1800's law that was never taken down stating that every man must bring a shotgun to church on sundays incase of indian attacks. Now i do not believe any Native americans are going to attack a church. however the KKK might.........then i would love to have a shotgun handy ;-)

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I'd love to see the cite for that.

DCKilla said:

I saw a light bulb over my wife's head turn on today. She finally relized that defending one's self, family, and property with a leathal weapon was extremely biblical (1st Timothy 5:8). Also, God required us to defend to the death if need be. But, using a weapon out side of defense i.e. murder is a sin, "who ever lives by the sword, dies by the sword" Matt. 26:52.

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Strictly speaking, that's not what 1 Timothy 5:8 says, but many have interpreted it to infer what you say. All it really states is in regarding to "providing" for one's relatives. If you're going to present this in a religious argument overself defense, remember to bring in some other quotes that help support that meaning (some of which have already been posted above).

JamesCanby said:

Why would anyone carry in a church?

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In my mind, you have the question backwards. "Why wouldn't anyone carry in a church?"

I carry to church just like I carry everywhere. My carry mode changes at church out of respect for the Pastor's preference but I would feel naked without my handgun. And no one wants me nekked in church!

DCKilla said:

I saw a light bulb over my wife's head turn on today. She finally relized that defending one's self, family, and property with a leathal weapon was extremely biblical (1st Timothy 5:8). Also, God required us to defend to the death if need be. But, using a weapon out side of defense i.e. murder is a sin, "who ever lives by the sword, dies by the sword" Matt. 26:52.

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Hi Mate.

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

I like that Scripture and all.

I listened to a so called religious person say this morning on Australian talk back radio that those people who killed Osama Bin laden were murderes and quoted the commandment thou shal not kill!

What these, "Thou shalt no kill" adherents always fail to ALSO qoute is this Scripture for those who ignore the thou shalt not kill scripture;

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (Genenis 9:6).

I'm sure Osama has killed or arranged to kill a few people in his days.

Haz.