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Thread: Hb517..

  1. #1
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    Hb517..

    What is the next step for this legislation? When will they be meeting/voting to either approve the SB234 changes or allow HB517 to stand alone? If they do not merge the two into one identical bill then it is my understanding that SB234 dies and HB517 starts the committee process in the Senate all over again, correct?

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    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Yeah, that's about right. Which means, with the whole session ending in 10 days, that 517 wouldn't see it's first senate committee before the fat lady sings. Provided it ddid miraculously hit the committees, it would get through Criminal Justice anyway.
    American Government 101:
    The Executive branch's job is to provide celebrity figureheads for the pandering populace.
    The Legislative branch's job is to progressively destroy our freedoms for the "safety" of "We the Sheeple."
    The Judicial branch's job is to look like they're defending our freedoms against the abuses of the Legislative branch, only by token gestures that do not interfere is this pivotal process, but enough to deceive "We the People" into a false sense of security.

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    Looks as though the thing just fizzled out? Was probably a "go through -some-of the motions" thing anyway...smoke up our backsides, if they didnt follow-through..

    http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/sectio...x?BillId=45327

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    These people should vote against this new amendment on SB234 right ? will this effect the out come of the Amendment or the entire bill or will it even matter? there are eleven of them. or do they even get a say on this ?

    GENERAL BILL by Judiciary Committee and Criminal Justice Subcommittee and Dorworth (CO-SPONSORS) Abruzzo; Baxley; Broxson; Caldwell; Corcoran; Gaetz; Plakon; Tobia; Van Zant; Workman
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    An attempt to explain our legislative process...

    In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.

    The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.

    HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
    See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process

    Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.

    What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.


    We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....

    Bill
    Last edited by GoOfY-FoOt; 04-30-2011 at 11:56 PM. Reason: added information

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoOfY-FoOt View Post
    In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.

    The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.

    HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
    See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process

    Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.

    What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.


    We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....

    Bill
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoOfY-FoOt View Post
    In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.

    The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.

    HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
    See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process

    Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.

    What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.


    We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....

    Bill
    The session ends Friday - not enough time left for a House vote and then a conference committee (which would likely be CJ on the Senate side anyway.)
    Last edited by brboyer; 05-01-2011 at 12:54 AM.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoOfY-FoOt View Post
    In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.

    The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.

    HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
    See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process

    Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.

    What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.


    We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....

    Bill
    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    The session ends Friday - not enough time left for a House vote and then a conference committee (which would likely be CJ on the Senate side anyway.)
    That is the key to keep HB517 without change and have both bills die. They will have to revisit SB234 or new version of it under the next session to address the long gun language of the federal law. If we don't get that to happen (HB517 unchanged) it will be more difficult to introduce an open carry bill that doesn't have anything else in it but open carry.

    I doubt Evers will introduce a new bill strictly designed for open carry. The senators didn't want open carry from the start and the title "Open Carry Bill" was a smoke screen. The NRA just wanted a victory and open carry was not their priority. We will have very little support for a new open carry bill if SB234 is signed by the Gov.

    Contrary to what Florida Carry and Stogie are saying I don’t believe the “friendly senators” and the NRA are truly behind open carry. They do however need to address the long gun issue of the federal law. Killing both bills will force them to draft a new bill which hopefully will include open carry in it.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    That is the key to keep HB517 without change and have both bills die. They will have to revisit SB234 or new version of it under the next session to address the long gun language of the federal law. If we don't get that to happen (HB517 unchanged) it will be more difficult to introduce an open carry bill that doesn't have anything else in it but open carry.

    I doubt Evers will introduce a new bill strictly designed for open carry. The senators didn't want open carry from the start and the title "Open Carry Bill" was a smoke screen. The NRA just wanted a victory and open carry was not their priority. We will have very little support for a new open carry bill if SB234 is signed by the Gov.

    Contrary to what Florida Carry and Stogie are saying I don’t believe the “friendly senators” and the NRA are truly behind open carry. They do however need to address the long gun issue of the federal law. Killing both bills will force them to draft a new bill which hopefully will include open carry in it.
    Ok, so a couple of scenarios:
    We need to begin looking at what to do if:

    a) Bill simply dies due to not enough time to work it out before session ends-OR- House is unable to get Senate to match it.
    Do we go back to begging and grovelling the same folks again to try to introduce a new one-PROPERLY WORDED in the 1st place- and spend however long riding their backs to keep the pressure on to stick to it?
    Or do we hold off until next election, and try to replace as many of them as we can with folks more favorable to our cause?

    b)if the House bows to the Senate, and changes it to match the Senate version-
    Do we simply accept that,and try again next time as in A)?
    or, do we add the House to the replace at all cost method next election?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    That is the key to keep HB517 without change and have both bills die. They will have to revisit SB234 or new version of it under the next session to address the long gun language of the federal law. If we don't get that to happen (HB517 unchanged) it will be more difficult to introduce an open carry bill that doesn't have anything else in it but open carry.

    I doubt Evers will introduce a new bill strictly designed for open carry. The senators didn't want open carry from the start and the title "Open Carry Bill" was a smoke screen. The NRA just wanted a victory and open carry was not their priority. We will have very little support for a new open carry bill if SB234 is signed by the Gov.

    Contrary to what Florida Carry and Stogie are saying I don’t believe the “friendly senators” and the NRA are truly behind open carry. They do however need to address the long gun issue of the federal law. Killing both bills will force them to draft a new bill which hopefully will include open carry in it.
    Don't see it happening, firedog. Most likely scenario, sad to say, is that 517 gets tabled and the House votes on SB234, as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Don't see it happening, firedog. Most likely scenario, sad to say, is that 517 gets tabled and the House votes on SB234, as is.
    Indeed. And if that proves to be the case, I say scrap both this Senate and this House.
    Regroup, and begin working towards identifying,auditioning, and putting onto the ballot,candidates far more suitable to the task for the next election.
    Spend the time,money and efforts on things that will hopefully put us in a better position for a more determined effort with some fresh meat in the seats in Tally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Indeed. And if that proves to be the case, I say scrap both this Senate and this House.
    Regroup, and begin working towards identifying,auditioning, and putting onto the ballot,candidates far more suitable to the task for the next election.
    Spend the time,money and efforts on things that will hopefully put us in a better position for a more determined effort with some fresh meat in the seats in Tally.
    There you go! The senate and the NRA failed us and the house needs to know we took notice. The momentum now should be to convince the house members that if they don't get both bills killed do not expect our support when they are ready to move to the senate.

    That is the purpose of the house is to control the senate and learn the ropes for their future move as a Senator. Let them know we are here to support their growth but they better demonstrate their resolve (balls) if they want it.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    There you go! The senate and the NRA failed us and the house needs to know we took notice. The momentum now should be to convince the house members that if they don't get both bills killed do not expect our support when they are ready to move to the senate.

    That is the purpose of the house is to control the senate and learn the ropes for their future move as a Senator. Let them know we are here to support their growth but they better demonstrate their resolve (balls) if they want it.
    Far as Im concerned,if you want to get it, you need to EARN it. (promotion)
    It is waaay past time elected officials-of any kind/office/level learn that.
    For some items/issues the whole "aw,gee, no problem, maybe next time" crap can work.
    This,I do not consider to be one of those items or issues.

    If you or I went in to work tommorow, with the intent of slacking off, going through the motions, telling the boss "yeah yeah" then going on our merry way and not doing the job-would we have any reasonable expectation of still having that job tommorow?
    Or would we still be dillusional enough to think we are still in line for that next promotion to something bigger, better, with improved pay and benefits?

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    Folks,
    There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House, or a veto by Scott.

    The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over.

    Same thing if the House does nothing and lets 517 dies.

    And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.

    It's politics folks, remember that. We may not like it, but thats the way it works IRL. Angry, threatening, uninformed e-mail and letters will be counter-productive.

    Relax on all of the hate and loudmouthed posturing. Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. They will discover all of the underlying politics and then we can start to address it.

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    "There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House"

    A bit interesting,is it not, how that timed out? hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."oops,sorry ran out of time to go through the motions for ya, sorry.."


    "how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief."

    I'd like to hope not. Im sure most people see,or should see, that there is no blame to be laid at the Governor's feet on this ,yet. Had this bill made it to his desk in this form, Im confident he would have vetoed it.If he were to prove me wrong on this, I'd of course be singing a different tune,but it seems a moot point for the moment.

    "uninformed e-mail and letters"
    Now to this: Please,do enlighten me, and the rest of us of like minds, where we are "uninformed" exactly.
    Sure, in the little nuts/bolts/schemes of why/how this got mangled,perhaps.
    But, five over-riding principles are at the root of all of this:


    *That a fundamental right of our citizens is being deliberately,and knowingly, denied.And has been for years.

    *That a chance to put that to rights was knowingly and deliberately sabotaged by some of our legislators.

    *That other legislators -whom we were led to believe were in support of this effort- failed to push that effort through to victory.Regardless of the mechinations in place publicly,and behind the scenes.

    *That the alleged "friendly" law-makers,armed with at least a margin of a majority,still caved in and surrendered at the last moment.For whatever reasons or motivations they may have had for doing so.

    *That for more than just a few of us,all of the above is entirely un-acceptable.
    Last edited by j4l; 05-01-2011 at 12:29 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Folks,
    There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House, or a veto by Scott.

    The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over.

    Same thing if the House does nothing and lets 517 dies.

    And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.

    It's politics folks, remember that. We may not like it, but thats the way it works IRL. Angry, threatening, uninformed e-mail and letters will be counter-productive.

    Relax on all of the hate and loudmouthed posturing. Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. They will discover all of the underlying politics and then we can start to address it.
    Humm, " Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. We did that already and got nothing. Not taking away from their efforts but just saying they need some help.

    "The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over". I think the Governor can defend himself and he has already said he supported OC which got yanked. It was his senate that that failed us and he is well capable or relaying that point to the people, be them "nut-cases on the pro side" or not.

    Relax: Are you kidding me?

    And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.: And they will demonstrate they are not willing to compromise on 2A rights of Floridians. And, in a few years "welcome to the senate".
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House"

    A bit interesting,is it not, how that timed out? hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."oops,sorry ran out of time to go through the motions for ya, sorry.."


    "how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief."

    I'd like to hope not. Im sure most people see,or should see, that there is no blame to be laid at the Governor's feet on this ,yet. Had this bill made it to his desk in this form, Im confident he would have vetoed it.If he were to prove me wrong on this, I'd of course be singing a different tune,but it seems a moot point for the moment.

    "uninformed e-mail and letters"
    Now to this: Please,do enlighten me, and the rest of us of like minds, where we are "uninformed" exactly.
    Sure, in the little nuts/bolts/schemes of why/how this got mangled,perhaps.
    But, five over-riding principles are at the root of all of this:


    *That a fundamental right of our citizens is being deliberately,and knowingly, denied.And has been for years.

    *That a chance to put that to rights was knowingly and deliberately sabotaged by some of our legislators.

    *That other legislators -whom we were led to believe were in support of this effort- failed to push that effort through to victory.Regardless of the mechinations in place publicly,and behind the scenes.

    *That the alleged "friendly" law-makers,armed with at least a margin of a majority,still caved in and surrendered at the last moment.For whatever reasons or motivations they may have had for doing so.

    *That for more than just a few of us,all of the above is entirely un-acceptable.
    You admit that
    Please,do enlighten me, and the rest of us of like minds, where we are "uninformed" exactly.
    Sure, in the little nuts/bolts/schemes of why/how this got mangled,perhaps.
    It's really quite simple. You do not know what happened for the events to transpire as they did. Then you make these grandiose accusations based on nothing more than an admittedly brief public exposure during committee meetings/votes. 95% of politics is done behind closed doors, it's not right, but it is a fact.

    The nature of politics will likely never change, and it will certainly never change because of angry, threatening, nut-case e-mails.

    For the most part, it's about money. There may be a few altruistic souls in politics, but they never last long. The priorities are re-election and election to a better post with more ability to get more money. The people with the most money convey the most power. That is why the NRA is so effective when they go all out on one of their priorities. We need to convince them that this is what they should focus on in Florida. And again, angry, threatening e-mails to them are going to end up in the circular files too.

    We must work from within the system to effect change.

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    "We must work from within the system to effect change. "

    Bingo.Precisely. By replacing those currently IN the system,and serving only to impede the achievment of our goals, with folks more inclined to get it done. Thank you.


    Yes, I understand full well that all manner of BS transpires behind the scenes on such things.Although, I have a hard time figuring who's $$ would be gained/exchanged to convince them to deliberately prevent OC.
    Not that it matters-the result we get out of it is the same. Bent over like a cheap Bangkok prostitute on payday again.
    Hence, we need some folks in place-eventually-who are made to understand before they get voted in-that such back-room nonsense that undermines our efforts will/should result in their termination next time.

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    "The nature of politics will likely never change"

    Ah, and there's NO reason that has to be/should be accepted as some kind of "norm" that we just shrug off. It can very well change, if the practicioners of such methods are made fully aware (at the polls) that there is a flip side to selling out/betraying the voters today,in favor of a couple of bucks in their campaign coffers tommorow.
    Send that message often enough, and clearly enough,and I'm sure at least some of them will eventually "GET IT".

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "We must work from within the system to effect change. "

    Bingo.Precisely. By replacing those currently IN the system,and serving only to impede the achievment of our goals, with folks more inclined to get it done. Thank you.


    Yes, I understand full well that all manner of BS transpires behind the scenes on such things.Although, I have a hard time figuring who's $$ would be gained/exchanged to convince them to deliberately prevent OC.
    Not that it matters-the result we get out of it is the same. Bent over like a cheap Bangkok prostitute on payday again.
    Hence, we need some folks in place-eventually-who are made to understand before they get voted in-that such back-room nonsense that undermines our efforts will/should result in their termination next time.
    I agree completely that we need to get more 'rights' friendly folks into politics.

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    Let me put it another way-maybe this is easier to grasp: who knows?

    Your my employer. I asked,and all but begged you to hire me. I convinced you I have the skills it takes to sell/create/whatever your product or service is.
    For months I flooded you mail box, your email in-box, and rang your phone off the hook,trying to convince you I'm the guy to hire.
    So,eventually you agree,and hire me.
    1st couple of weeks a make a good show of it. I go through all the right motions- customer-service is top-notch,sales/productivity is up,sales/profits are suddenly soaring.
    Then, the next few weeks I totally slack off. I come in to work maybe 2 of the 5 days Im scheduled to do so. When I do, I come in late, leave early,and spend most of the time in-between on some kind of break,if Im even awake.
    Now, profits are down, customers are getting irate, products/services are not being delivered as before,and half-assed when they are delivered.
    Customers are trampling one another in their hurry to find another provider.
    So you come to me and tell me" hey, I hired you to do a job,you obviously have the ability to do so-get to it"
    To which I just nod and smile,and tell you no worries,everything's gonna be just fine...
    Then I go back to my nap.

    A couple of weeks later, you come to me with the same complaint. This time I say,ya know, I'll try to improve-in the meantime, how about a promotion? More pay? Better benefits?
    You shake your head in frustration and go back to your office-wondering if ever hiring me was even such a great idea to begin with..
    Right after you leave,however, another "customer" comes to me.
    Ya know what? Ignore him, screw him. Here's $50, go back to sleep or something.Blow him off next time he comes to you.

    A few weeks later-you come back yet again.Now with things on the verge of collapsing because biz is at an all-time low,as a result of my "work".
    You scold me again, and I blow you off again. Biz goes further into the crapper.


    Now, what do you do? Keep me around? Promote me to even more responsibility/power?
    Or do you send my ass back to the street faster than I can say OMG what happened?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post

    That is why the NRA is so effective when they go all out on one of their priorities. We need to convince them that this is what they should focus on in Florida. And again, angry, threatening e-mails to them are going to end up in the circular files too.
    Unified Sportsmen of Florida
    PO BOX 1387
    Tallahassee, Florida 32302

    If the NRA successfully promotes OC, it's a death blow to the enemy. To their credit they have used it to get Constitutional carry in 4 states the last two years. From their alerts: "A law abiding citizen does not suddenly turn into a criminal by putting on a jacket." But that's all they've done. We live in the hottest state, we deserve our rights. Florida NRA members should demand it be a priority.

    What else do they have left here besides the OC ban? Campus carry, bar carry, 3 day waiting period. Minor inconveniences. Self defense laws are the gold standard. No AWB, no Class III regs. We need to politely tell them that OC has been on the back burner long enough. Florida Carry needs to get as many members and fishing events as possible to lobby the NRA!!
    Last edited by 77zach; 05-01-2011 at 03:26 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    You admit that

    It's really quite simple. You do not know what happened for the events to transpire as they did. Then you make these grandiose accusations based on nothing more than an admittedly brief public exposure during committee meetings/votes. 95% of politics is done behind closed doors, it's not right, but it is a fact.

    The nature of politics will likely never change, and it will certainly never change because of angry, threatening, nut-case e-mails.

    For the most part, it's about money. There may be a few altruistic souls in politics, but they never last long. The priorities are re-election and election to a better post with more ability to get more money. The people with the most money convey the most power. That is why the NRA is so effective when they go all out on one of their priorities. We need to convince them that this is what they should focus on in Florida. And again, angry, threatening e-mails to them are going to end up in the circular files too.

    We must work from within the system to effect change.
    OK for the first part you stated "You do not know what happened for the events to transpire as they did - 95% of politics is done behind closed doors, it's not right, but it is a fact." Both those statements are not "right". Somebody knows what went on behind those closed doors and most of the time its the people taking our money to promote our desires. When they fail to do that then they no longer deserve our support or our money. If they have an agenda that differs from our desires they should relay that to us and not keep us in the dark with lies.

    I confirm that with your second statement "For the most part, it's about money".

    "Then you make these grandiose accusations based on nothing more than an admittedly brief public exposure during committee meetings/votes." You bet'ya. That's why there are TV cameras in the room. Their positions are supposed to be seen, heard, and recorded. Those that present grandiose presentations for the purpose of drumming up support for stuff they never intended to follow through with are frauds. The senate committee members and the NRA did exactly that. They perpetrated a fraud on their constituents & members knowing full well they never intended to include OC in a bill titled "Open Carry". Even the title of the bill was bullsh*t and they knew it. I hope Florida Carry didn't know it before hand and the fact that they didn't leave questions as to their ability. I am trying real hard not to criticize Florida Carry but this mild, meek acceptance of this deception is weighting on me.

    I donate money to people I think are truthful and working for what they claim to be working for. Now I have to reassess my contribution priorities. It is obviously not the NRA and I feel bad about that. They've done spectacular things but this is the first time I have ever felt deceived by them and I simply cannot get that out of my head. The NRA needs to demonstrate to me that they are truly 2A supporters. And I don’t mean portions of 2A that they feel are priorities and are easy winners. I mean the entire second amendment as it was intended. They had SB234 and they caved for the easy win..
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  24. #24
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    Please help me understand this "fishing event" concept.
    Not trying to be a jerk,but..Im trying to grasp the effect.
    Im you,me, and 12 other guys are standing around somewhere with a pistol on our hip (in a place/situation where it's already legal to do so) a fishing pole in hand, and being eaten alive by mosquittoes and gnats, who else is around to see/hear this other than perhaps a couple of local hicks? Most of whom are probably already inclined to agree with us anyway?
    Isnt that sort of preaching to the choir? Or is the media invited,and perhaps an NRA rep will just happen to drive by and say "oooh lookie, a gathering of armed-to-the-teeth fishermen!" wtf,over?

  25. #25
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    "That's why there are TV cameras in the room. Their positions are supposed to be seen, heard, and recorded. Those that present grandiose presentations for the purpose of drumming up support for stuff they never intended to follow through with are frauds. The senate committee members and the NRA did exactly that. "

    This =100% concur. It's gonna take a lot of fast,fancy-talking to convince me otherwise.


    " I am trying real hard not to criticize Florida Carry but this mild, meek acceptance of this deception is weighting on me. "

    And this. It is giving me considerable pause.Especially since hearing all this "hang-on,take it easy,dont get angry" bit. I dont go so far as to say anything deliberate or decietful was at play here.

    But...the timid "take it in the rear,and thank them for it" response has me very very concerned. The Senators and the House, and the rest of the known opposition I can already see/expect it from. From those carrying the diplomatic torch in this matter though..
    For some time we got the pep-talks, and the "work the phones and e-mails and contact so and so" thing. And we complied. Nice, polite,etc. That approach did not work.
    I dont blame Florida Carry for that,dont get me wrong there. But, to suggest the same approach,on the same folks.....see the Wall....

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