Take it easy, guys

StogieC said:

This is taken from the Biker's most recent legislative alert.



Bikers showing up at the capitol is exactly the same thing we will be doing with our lobby day. Instead of Harleys, we will have empty holsters.

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When is lobby day?

StogieC said:

This is taken from the Biker's most recent legislative alert.



Bikers showing up at the capitol is exactly the same type of thing we will be doing with our lobby day. Instead of Harleys, we will have empty holsters.

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sign me up. I'll try to get others to come. The makeup of the senate isn't changing next year and rumor is Evers doesn't even care about doing it. If we can't OC next year, I don't want it to be for lack of effort. Should be very effective.

FzSBLACKMAGICK said:

When is lobby day?

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Planning it for next legislative session. Still working on an exact date but Jan 17th is tentative.

StogieC said:

Doc is one of the most effective lobbyist in the country. He is president of ABATE of Florida. (American Bikers Aimed Towards Education). The guys on the harleys you are talking about.

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Ah ok, I thought he was someone working for our cause.

You have to admit there's a certain element of intimidation when bikers show up en masse'.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/ne...ikers-want-tougher-laws-on-motorists-04112011
"Motorcyclists from around Florida rolled into Tallahassee Monday and went to work lobbying for a variety of issues, including helmet laws."

Well, I open carry but I don't have a Harley (or any bike for that matter). So I guess I'll have to either ride bitch or put side pipes on the Buick.

StogieC said:

Nobody is going to vote to let people who call or write to threaten them carry a gun.

Please express disappointment that a legislator voted against open carry and take the opportunity to educate them, politely, on the common since aspects of open carry that will change their mind.

Ask legislators to help with our cause, do not demand that they do what you want "or else".

Those legislators who do not come around to supporting us will have to contend with Florida Carry working extremely hard to elect more RKBA friendly Senators and Reps at election time. They already know that.

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+1! or 2...
Hey everyone, it's completely possible to contact your reps and senators in a way that is both civil and firm. You can seriously, calmly, intelligently, firmly, state your stances and the fact that you will only support those in power who agree with them, while NOT being "rude, angry, or threatening," as they like to say. As legally armed citizens you have already committed to controlling your temper and reacting in calm and rational ways, to avoiding hostile confrontation when possible. Just because they are politcians who refuse to support constitutional rights, we still have to be who and how we are. Though this ethically requires us to confront them to put our voter pressure on so we get closer to our goals, we've still gotta treat this the way we treat any offense - as rational and defusing as possible. Tempers will only incur theirs. It's hard enough getting our rights back when they AREN'T agitated.

Rick H said:

Yes we do "FREEDOM TO VOTE THEIR DUMB UNCONSTITUTIONAL ASSES OUT"
And boycott the rest.

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What does this even mean?

There seems to be a few uninformed hotheads around.

Outside of Mom's basements all across the state, a number of adults are working very hard to get our rights restored. It is an extremely difficult proposition as there are powerful political forces fighting very hard against us. Many of the names you will never know and never understand their contributions to the cause.

Out here in the real world, when elected officials get phone calls, e-mails and letters from loud, abusive, threatening, uninformed people they tend to do three things.

1) Put the sender's communication in the crazy nut-case file. i.e. the trash can. Without attempting to read or understand the ideas it is attempting to communicate.
2) Associates, unfairly so, the crazy nut-case label with the entire group that the sender identifies with.
3) Depending on the message, contacts certain members of the law enforcement community to perform checks to determine if this crazy nut-job is just a loudmouth, disrespectful, immature, fool, or if there is some larger issue that might need their attention.

In any case, it is mostly counter productive.

I don't know. Empty holsters just feels weak.

Can't we just carry like this

Schlitz said:

I don't know. Empty holsters just feels weak.

Can't we just carry like this

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There are metal detectors at the entrances. We don't need stand around outside. We need to go in and talk to the reps and senators as small groups.

Read VCDL's guide on communicating with legislators.
http://www.vcdl.org/new/comm.html

I've posted this before but it needs to be reviewed again.
http://www.floridacarry.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=23

StogieC said:

I've posted this before but it needs to be reviewed again.
http://www.floridacarry.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=23

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Extremely helpful post. It should be stickied, and all the the old SB 234 stuff removed.

Besides getting friends and family to join Florida Carry, do you think it would be worthwhile to send actual letters to Unified Sportsmen of Florida about helping us with OC? Or does Marion not need any encouragement? The lawmakers seem to notice when she speaks, and I think we'll need their support if we are to get OC. By norming guns into society, OC has potential to devastate the "gun control" movement. They even admit this. I have no idea how interested Hammer is on this, but we need to make her interested before she retires.

Unified Sportsmen of Florida
PO BOX 1387
Tallahassee, Florida 32302

?????????

77zach said:

Extremely helpful post. It should be stickied, and all the the old SB 234 stuff removed.

Besides getting friends and family to join Florida Carry, do you think it would be worthwhile to send actual letters to Unified Sportsmen of Florida about helping us with OC? Or does Marion not need any encouragement? The lawmakers seem to notice when she speaks, and I think we'll need their support if we are to get OC. By norming guns into society, OC has potential to devastate the "gun control" movement. They even admit this. I have no idea how interested Hammer is on this, but we need to make her interested before she retires.

Unified Sportsmen of Florida
PO BOX 1387
Tallahassee, Florida 32302

?????????

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Marion is one of our biggest allies. Do not for a second think that she would intend to hurt our efforts.

NRA generally supports open carry but it is not a priority for them.

StogieC said:

Marion is one of our biggest allies. Do not for a second think that she would intend to hurt our efforts.

NRA generally supports open carry but it is not a priority for them.

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So loving letters explaining why it should be a priority won't be counterprodcutive?

rvrctyrngr said:

No, brought to you by someone who is hip-deep in the process and understands the effect that threatening communications has on the process.

You can demand, stomp your footies and whine about your 'rights' all you want. See how far it gets you. Aggravating those that will vote on what you are demanding does not help, it hurts the cause. But go right ahead and continue to present the image of a 'gun-nut', and guarantee the status quo (you might want to look that one up).

A sheep working on your behalf? Cute. You have no idea who I am or what I've done on your behalf.

What exactly have YOU done to help besides prattle childish rhetoric on a website?

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While my commentary won't be as hostile, it is impossible to avoid that fact that he is right.

Begging the boot on your neck to kindly remove itself has never worked. EVER. Anywhere in the world. At any time. It has never worked.

This is what I was afraid Florida Carry would become, and why I never 100% supported it. You choose to fail before you even start because you are ignoring this fundamental reality.

While I know myself and a few others here are far more emotional and willing to 'go over the line,' the root matter that divides us is that you don't recognize reality, and we do. If you are in denial of your own circumstance, you cannot survive it.

The war is already upon us. Pretending that it isn't won't help us win...

I realize your point on tone, and it is valid. But until we are a threat, we can't do what is necessary, and that is, yes, making threats against them. Politicians never, ever do anything unless they feel their security in office is threatened. Period. There is no discussion on this point. It is the most proven fact of all time. Only gravity might be said to compete with it's degree of factuality.

This exposes the real problem. The People of Florida are willing slaves, for the most part. They want to be helpless. They don't want Open Carry. Floridians are, for the most part, Haters of their own would-be Freedoms. They voted these people into office because they wanted it this way. Floridians hate Freedom. Get it through your head. OC will never have a majority of support here. It's no different than fighting for OC in NJ or NYC. The masses don't want it. They're too dumb and hateful to grasp the concept.

ixtow said:

This exposes the real problem. The People of Florida are willing slaves, for the most part. They want to be helpless. They don't want Open Carry. Floridians are, for the most part, Haters of their own would-be Freedoms. They voted these people into office because they wanted it this way. Floridians hate Freedom. Get it through your head. OC will never have a majority of support here. It's no different than fighting for OC in NJ or NYC. The masses don't want it. They're too dumb and hateful to grasp the concept.

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This is true anywhere. We're trying to do something never done before: legalize OC. Every other state has had it from day 1. To the sheeple, OC is an order of magnitude more radical than shall issue CWFL. OC is 0-4 this year. AR, OK,SC, and now us. TX is pending but I'm not holding my breath.

If OC were made illegal in VA in 1987, I strongly suspect it would be illegal in 2011.

77zach said:

So loving letters explaining why it should be a priority won't be counterprodcutive?

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can't hurt!

77zach said:

If OC were made illegal in VA in 1987, I strongly suspect it would be illegal in 2011.

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I said exactly this back in October. If any kind of gun carrying were to come up today in FL, it would never happen. Concealed, Open, of any kind of weapon. It doesn't matter. The People of Florida WANT to be helpless. They WANT to be dominated. They WANT to be victims.

The general anti-freedom attitude of Floridians makes me not even want to associate with them. I can't stand to even have a simple conversation about the weather with most of them. It's horrible.

They voted for these representatives on purpose. It was never a choice between the lesser of two evils. Florida is filled with East Coast Neocon/Liberalism. The worst of the northern east-coast states all move here and spread their poison. Even the Conservatives have to adopt Statism to get elected, that's why we have so many RINOs and Neocons. Floridians WANT IT THAT WAY.

It will take a long time, if ever, to educate people that are this stupid and hateful. Frankly, its a lost cause.

ixtow said:

I realize your point on tone, and it is valid. But until we are a threat, we can't do what is necessary, and that is, yes, making threats against them. Politicians never, ever do anything unless they feel their security in office is threatened. Period. There is no discussion on this point. It is the most proven fact of all time. Only gravity might be said to compete with it's degree of factuality.

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"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip."
— Winston S. Churchill

You can politely tell someone that you will have to support someone else who better shares your views unless they can take the time to understand your concerns with their position.

77zach said:

So loving letters explaining why it should be a priority won't be counterprodcutive?

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how's this:

Dear senators:

I am very disappointed with the outcome of SB234. I have traveled to many open carry states (Arizona, New Mexico, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Michigan) and have also open carried in many of those states. I have not once had a problem with perception, or making someone nervous. I have been seen by law enforcement, and never had an encounter, and I have never had police called on me. Likewise, I have carried myself as I normally do, wearing nice clothes, smile on my face, and going about my business. Wearing a gun openly on my hip does not change my demeanor outwardly (or inwardly for that matter, other than I know I am still able to protect myself).

I am disappointed that open carry was not passed this year in Florida, and I am also disappointed in those of you who have voted for this amended version of SB234. We must always remember that criminals have complete disregard for the law. The only ones that laws "hurt" are those willing to submit to them. In this free country, this republic, the United States of America, we are not supposed to be subjected to "what the government wills or thinks best". In 43 of the 50 states in the USA, open carry is perfectly legal: 29 states do not require a license to open carry, only 14 states require a license to open carry, and only 7 states ban open carry. Justice Antonin Scalia had this to say about the entire Second Amendment; "We find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." Openly carrying my firearm does not turn me into a "gunslinger", or a person with criminal intent. There are many things in day to day life that may offend other people, but that is the result and the greatness of living in a free republic! (I find that the responsibility of carrying a concealed firearm in Florida is actually a testament to those law abiding citizens who have submitted to the firearm laws of Florida for the past 23 years.)

I am sure many of you have concealed weapons permits, and may understand the inconvenience of the hot weather in Florida while carrying concealed. Carrying openly allows a more comfortable means to carry our Constitutionally protected firearm for self defense. Carrying openly does not change our mindset from responsible to irresponsible. By not allowing the citizens of Florida to open carry a firearm, there may arise a situation where one is unable to carry their firearm for protection. Open carry creates an atmosphere that was intended at our country's founding: we are free, and able to protect ourselves and our fellow citizens if the need arises. It also allows the opportunity for those who would like to use a more comfortable holster, and still be able to dress how they normally do. I currently have 2 holsters that I can not use in Florida based on this law; even the amended SB234 doesn't help fix that inconvenience.

I hope that in future situations, you all will look not to the emotional or political side of open carry, but the lawful, and Constitutional side, which completely protects our actions: Restore open carry to the state of Florida!

If you can not be counted on in future situations to do this, then I will be making my vote elsewhere, as well as telling others to do the same.

hammer6 said:

... Twelve states permit open carry without requiring a license to do so. Thirty states either require a permit to carry open or concealed, or have certain requirements/prohibited places. (California allows open carry of an unloaded firearm, and Illinois allows open carry in un-incorporated areas...

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Keep it simple.
29 states do not require a license to OC.
Only 14 states require a license to OC.
Only 7 states ban OC.