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  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    The List

    Here's an appeal to those of you who know the details: the campaign begins now. Those of us on the forum need a list of everyone who voted for the Bogdanoff amendment, in order to make our displeasure known.

    This is not email time (though adjoining emails will help). This is the time to actually sit down and write them very well-worded letters on some Crane stock and send them down to Tallahassee. Let's make a few points:

    - we will actively campaign in favor of your opponent
    - you had my full support and now you don't
    - you've made myself, my family, my state, and my loved ones less safe
    - while we were counting on you to help make us safer, what you've done is make it easier to criminalize us -- those of us who have proven that we have clean records, the lowest crime rates in the state, and the Least likelihood of using a gun -- those of us who truly understand the sanctity of life and the horror that it is to take one
    - a very hard rain is going to fall on you from every direction, etc.

    Let's make it nice and personalized. Let's CC the NRA and other gun sites. 2012 is right around the corner and they ought to know that their time is coming to an end, and they ought to know why.

    Who caved? Does anybody have the full list?

    Jesus


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  2. #2
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Here's an appeal to those of you who know the details: the campaign begins now. Those of us on the forum need a list of everyone who voted for the Bogdanoff amendment, in order to make our displeasure known.

    This is not email time (though adjoining emails will help). This is the time to actually sit down and write them very well-worded letters on some Crane stock and send them down to Tallahassee. Let's make a few points:

    - we will actively campaign in favor of your opponent
    - you had my full support and now you don't
    - you've made myself, my family, my state, and my loved ones less safe
    - while we were counting on you to help make us safer, what you've done is make it easier to criminalize us -- those of us who have proven that we have clean records, the lowest crime rates in the state, and the Least likelihood of using a gun -- those of us who truly understand the sanctity of life and the horror that it is to take one
    - a very hard rain is going to fall on you from every direction, etc.

    Let's make it nice and personalized. Let's CC the NRA and other gun sites. 2012 is right around the corner and they ought to know that their time is coming to an end, and they ought to know why.

    Who caved? Does anybody have the full list?

    Jesus


    -
    Specifically, what we need is the 8 suspected NO votes if Evers' had not caved, right? Montford too.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    That is exactly what we need. The approach, however, is questionable. Should we be telling them that we will campaign against them, financially support, their adversary, etc.? 8 really narrows the list down, and if we focus on these, seriously, they're gone. Would I be correct in my assertion that the eight = the eight republican nays?

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    That is exactly what we need. The approach, however, is questionable. Should we be telling them that we will campaign against them, financially support, their adversary, etc.? 8 really narrows the list down, and if we focus on these, seriously, they're gone. Would I be correct in my assertion that the eight = the eight republican nays?
    Absolutely, any republican nay on SB234 needs to go. Any yea on bogdanoff’s amendment needs to hear from us. The NRA needs to hear us as loudly as we can possibly shout it.

    Bogdanoff’s needs to go. Even though I am not in her district I will be actively emailing, writing, editorializing and donating $$’s against her. This was a state issue and she “F” us and the entire state bad. So did the NRA. I do not think Evers was to totally blame here. He has to protect his party. Bogdanoff and the NRA are the culprits in this catastrophe. They knew that the Open Carry title of SB234 was a facade. I think the rest of the senators knew it also but how do you combat that? Their day of reckoning will come.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Absolutely, any republican nay on SB234 needs to go. Any yea on bogdanoff’s amendment needs to hear from us. The NRA needs to hear us as loudly as we can possibly shout it.

    Bogdanoff’s needs to go. Even though I am not in her district I will be actively emailing, writing, editorializing and donating $$’s against her. This was a state issue and she “F” us and the entire state bad. So did the NRA. I do not think Evers was to totally blame here. He has to protect his party. Bogdanoff and the NRA are the culprits in this catastrophe. They knew that the Open Carry title of SB234 was a facade. I think the rest of the senators knew it also but how do you combat that? Their day of reckoning will come.
    Give us the NAMES!.....LOL

  6. #6
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Give us the NAMES!.....LOL
    Jones, Dean, Bennett, Oelrich, Simmons, Latvala, Boggie, Alexander

    One of these must be convinced next year, so don't be an asshat.
    Last edited by 77zach; 04-30-2011 at 06:02 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Jones, Dean, Bennett, Oelrich, Simmons, Latvala, Boggie, Alexander

    One of these must be convinced next year, so don't be an asshat.
    Your not convincing Latvala he is Sheriff Coats dog!
    Coats has to go too.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Your not convincing Latvala he is Sheriff Coats dog!
    Coats has to go too.
    I've heard some say this. Why? Because Coats is in Latvala's district? Coats is one man.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  9. #9
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Oelrich, Alexander, and Simmons could be convinced. I know the way Alexander could be convinced. I know the type.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Regular Member SteyrAUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Oelrich, Alexander, and Simmons could be convinced. I know the way Alexander could be convinced. I know the type.
    Why bother? We tried, they screwed us. Send them to McDonalds and let's give somebody else a shot.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    كافر

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I've heard some say this. Why? Because Coats is in Latvala's district? Coats is one man.
    Why is the FSA even allowed to lobby, are they not using taxpayer money?
    They are to enforce law, not make it. This has to be illegal.

  12. #12
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Why is the FSA even allowed to lobby, are they not using taxpayer money?
    They are to enforce law, not make it. This has to be illegal.
    FSA - They are an association, basically a private organization made up of Florida sheriffs. A big club as it were. The sheriff can use tax dollars for his personal travels on legislative issues but not his deputies. Some of the FSA members are being investigate for allowing their deputies to campaign on tax dollars but you’re never going to see FDLE/SA's results on that issue.
    Last edited by firedog; 04-30-2011 at 06:21 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Why bother? We tried, they screwed us. Send them to McDonalds and let's give somebody else a shot.
    Because they can't be replaced between now and the session next year.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    FSA - They are an association, basically a private organization made up of Florida sheriffs. A big club as it were. The sheriff can use tax dollars for his personal travels on legislative issues but not his deputies. Some of the FSA members are being investigate for allowing their deputies to campaign on tax dollars but you’re never going to see FDLE/SA's results on that issue.
    I saw Hillsborough county deputies up there for Sheriff David Gee.
    Funny his name has not been mentioned, another Coats.
    Last edited by 10x; 04-30-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Why bother? We tried, they screwed us. Send them to McDonalds and let's give somebody else a shot.
    Yeah, We do want to get rid of any of them who oppose us AGAIN NEXT YEAR. We need to fight FOR their vote next year, because we are trying again next year, and like it or not, they'll still be there then...
    American Government 101:
    The Executive branch's job is to provide celebrity figureheads for the pandering populace.
    The Legislative branch's job is to progressively destroy our freedoms for the "safety" of "We the Sheeple."
    The Judicial branch's job is to look like they're defending our freedoms against the abuses of the Legislative branch, only by token gestures that do not interfere is this pivotal process, but enough to deceive "We the People" into a false sense of security.

  16. #16
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    Yeah, We do want to get rid of any of them who oppose us AGAIN NEXT YEAR. We need to fight FOR their vote next year, because we are trying again next year, and like it or not, they'll still be there then...
    We may as well not get our hopes up for next year if it has to go through criminal justice. If we get the vote, it won't be Dean's, and he'll be sure to kill it in the cradle. Don't know if it can be assigned to a different one or not.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  17. #17
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    Which is another reason why I say forget hinging our hopes/efforts on any of these clowns again.
    Really- we have to "convince" people to uphold our rights,much less re-establish them?
    Even the ones we can "convince" somehow,they've already demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that they are not truly/fully behind the effort.
    Our effort seems not to be a priority to any of them. Even the ones who would seem to be likely to be.

    Let's look, for example, at one I picked at random:
    In Bills they've authored/introduced, among them we find items like this one from Bennet:
    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/910

    "SB 910: Bedding MaterialsTrack This Bill


    GENERAL BILL by Bennett

    Bedding Materials; Cites this act as the "Safe and Hygienic Bedding Act." Prohibits a person from manufacturing or selling bedding that is made in whole or in part from secondhand material unless such material has been sanitized, germicidally treated, or cleaned using a method approved by the DOACS. Requires that all bedding manufactured, renovated, sanitized, or sold in this state which contains secondhand materials bear a clear and conspicuous label affixed to the bedding which contains specified information, etc.

    EFFECTIVE DATE: July 1, 2011"


    Bedding materials..are you FNG KIDDING ME? BEDDING MATERIALS?
    How many bedding manufacturers are there,actually, in Florida to begin with?
    How large an issue can such nonsense actually be?

    Now, sure it's important to someone to have a properly manufactured bed. One in complaince with basic health/safety concerns..granted..but is there some RIGHT in our State's constitution to having a well-made bed? Our in the national Constitution?
    Folks can go and make a fuss over, author legislaation to propose the regulation of bed-making materials, but they cant somehow convince themselves of the need to correct a continuing violation of our citizens' actual rights?


    Bedding Materials?

    With priorities like these, it's no bloody wonder we're in the mess we're in.
    At a time when we need a Tony Sopranno, we get Martha Fng Stewart instead...

  18. #18
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Wow, that bill looks like a waste of electronic storage space...
    It would almost be a 234-level travesty if they wasted paper and ink printing out hard copies.
    American Government 101:
    The Executive branch's job is to provide celebrity figureheads for the pandering populace.
    The Legislative branch's job is to progressively destroy our freedoms for the "safety" of "We the Sheeple."
    The Judicial branch's job is to look like they're defending our freedoms against the abuses of the Legislative branch, only by token gestures that do not interfere is this pivotal process, but enough to deceive "We the People" into a false sense of security.

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    Now now j4l you know bedding materials and sinkholes will always take precedence over your right to defend such a little thing as...your life.

    I say it's worthy of a minimum 8 hour debate on the virtues of new bedding materials vs. recycled.

    I want no amendments to this one either...unless it's for mandating the use of organic cotton and pillowtops.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Here's an appeal to those of you who know the details: the campaign begins now. Those of us on the forum need a list of everyone who voted for the Bogdanoff amendment, in order to make our displeasure known.

    This is not email time (though adjoining emails will help). This is the time to actually sit down and write them very well-worded letters on some Crane stock and send them down to Tallahassee. Let's make a few points:

    - we will actively campaign in favor of your opponent
    - you had my full support and now you don't
    - you've made myself, my family, my state, and my loved ones less safe
    - while we were counting on you to help make us safer, what you've done is make it easier to criminalize us -- those of us who have proven that we have clean records, the lowest crime rates in the state, and the Least likelihood of using a gun -- those of us who truly understand the sanctity of life and the horror that it is to take one
    - a very hard rain is going to fall on you from every direction, etc.

    Let's make it nice and personalized. Let's CC the NRA and other gun sites. 2012 is right around the corner and they ought to know that their time is coming to an end, and they ought to know why.

    Who caved? Does anybody have the full list?

    Jesus


    -
    Sequence: 2 The Florida Senate Date: 04/28/2011
    Session Day: 52 2011 Regular Session Time: 09:12 AM
    Calendar Page: 6
    CS/CS/SB 234, 1st Eng.
    Third Reading
    Yeas - 26 Nays - 11 Not Voting - 3
    Presiding - President Haridopolos
    Y Alexander-17 Y Gaetz-4 N Rich-34
    Y Altman-24 Y Garcia-40 Y Richter-37
    Y Benacquisto-27 Y Gardiner-9 Ring-32
    Y Bennett-21 Y Hays-20 N Sachs-30
    Y Bogdanoff-25 Y Hill-1 Y Simmons-22
    N Braynon-33 N Jones-13 N Siplin-19
    EX Bullard-39 N Joyner-18 N Smith-29
    N Dean-3 Y Latvala-16 N Sobel-31
    Y Detert-23 Y Lynn-7 Storms-10
    Y Diaz de la Portilla-36 N Margolis-35 Y Thrasher-8
    Y Dockery-15 N Montford-6 Y Wise-5
    Y Evers-2 Y African Americann-28 Y President Haridopolos-26
    Y Fasano-11 Y Norman-12
    Y Flores-38 Y Oelrich-14
    Votes after roll call:
    Storms—Yea
    God Bless America.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FzSBLACKMAGICK View Post
    Now now j4l you know bedding materials and sinkholes will always take precedence over your right to defend such a little thing as...your life.

    I say it's worthy of a minimum 8 hour debate on the virtues of new bedding materials vs. recycled.

    I want no amendments to this one either...unless it's for mandating the use of organic cotton and pillowtops.
    Discovery of any previously used bedding shall be a third degree felony, although "accidental exposure" of the used portion shall not be subject to criminal prosecution (unless, in the officer's sole discretion, the exposure was either not accidental nor for the purpose of intimidation). Should the used bedding be exposed with malice aforethought and premeditation, this shall be a capital offense.
    Last edited by Jojo712; 05-03-2011 at 12:32 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Discovery of any previously used bedding shall be a third degree felony, although "accidental exposure" of the used portion shall not be subject to criminal prosecution (unless, in the officer's sole discretion, the exposure was either not accidental nor for the purpose of intimidation). Should the used bedding be exposed with malice aforethought and premeditation, this shall be a capital offense.
    All in favor of the amendment say, "Aye"

    Show the amendment adopted.

    Brings us to amendment number 606854

    This amendment "tightens mattress exposure"

    "Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection 8, it is unlawful for any person to openly display a mattress.
    It is not a violation of this section for a person to briefly and openly display the mattress to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the mattress is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner and/or contains bed linen with a thread count of less than three hundred, necessary changing of bed linen notwithstanding."
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

  23. #23
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    Sometimes...truth is stranger than fiction...

    California Hotel Groups Flat Out Reject Fitted Sheet Requirement in Proposed Housekeeping Bill...http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ment-proposed/
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    As much as it pains me to say this, we may have to focus our efforts on the most vulnerable. We're spread too thin to take out all of them. We should focus on the battles we have the best chance of winning.

    As a direct OC Bill, I believe we would also have more opponents. Both Parties in FL hate the idea of Freedom of any kind, and the Floridians have been drinking their Kool Aid for decades.

    Lets hit the most vulnerable ones, and use them as an example to the fence sitters.

    Dean is vulnerable, he's been ******* people off for a long time but always manages to make himself look like the lesser of the evils by hiding his agenda behind other people's names. That game is wearing thin.

    It is flawed to look at this as a "we only need one vote." We only NEEDED one vote. We now face a steeper climb.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  25. #25
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    I second Dean.

    He should be priority number one. Like some other posters have mentioned, we won't get out of criminal justice with Dean there.

    Secondary priorities should be by rank. Anyone who is a nay and holds any level of authority over the scheduling of committee hearings.

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