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Thread: Letters to the Senators

  1. #1
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Letters to the Senators

    Dear Senator Haridopolos,
    The gutting of SB234 by a republican senator has disappointed me tremendously. As a respected president you have disappointed me by allowing this to happen. My disappointment will be reflected during the next campaign season. The failure of this senate to support true constitutional carry and the second amendment of the United States constitution is unacceptable. You have one more opportunity within the house bill. I pray that you realize the determination of your pro gun and pro rights constituents.

    Respectfully,
    Name address removed from posting
    *******************************************
    Dear Senator Altman,
    The gutting of SB234 by a republican senator has disappointed me tremendously. As a co-sponsor of this bill you have disappointed me by allowing this to happen. My disappointment will be reflected during the next campaign season. The failure of this senate to support true constitutional carry and the second amendment of the United States constitution is unacceptable. You have one more opportunity within the house bill. I pray that you realize the determination of your pro gun and pro rights constituents.

    Respectfully,
    Name address removed from posting
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  2. #2
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Dear Senator Evers,
    It is my position that you failed on SB234. This session of the senate passed a useless law and one that was outside it’s published objective. If this was not truly an “open carry” bill it should never have be presented as if it was. It does not protect the CCW holders from aggressive anti-gun law enforcement officers. It does not protect the second amendment of the constitution. It does not change the fact that Florida is only one of seven states that ban open carry of firearms. The bill is subjective and ambiguous and does little for the citizens of Florida.

    Senator, you stood in front of everyone and made an apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidentally exposing our firearms. This bill may have been worded as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill and you knew it. It was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was intending it to be. In other words, you tried to get sneaky, and you are called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proves that you were afraid of doing it in the first place. You felt a need to defend yourself before the ink was dry. I quote your words “this is no longer an open carry bill”, shameless!

    I know I do not live in your district and that I am not one of your constituents. However, if Senator Evers has any ambition to represent Florida within the political arena of the federal house or senate you have more than likely lost any and all support from me. Your intentional deception upon the citizens of Florida has been duly noted.

    Respectfully,
    Name/Address removed from post....
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Dear Senator Evers,
    It is my position that you failed on SB234. This session of the senate passed a useless law and one that was outside it’s published objective. If this was not truly an “open carry” bill it should never have be presented as if it was. It does not protect the CCW holders from aggressive anti-gun law enforcement officers. It does not protect the second amendment of the constitution. It does not change the fact that Florida is only one of seven states that ban open carry of firearms. The bill is subjective and ambiguous and does little for the citizens of Florida.

    Senator, you stood in front of everyone and made an apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidentally exposing our firearms. This bill may have been worded as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill and you knew it. It was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was intending it to be. In other words, you tried to get sneaky, and you are called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proves that you were afraid of doing it in the first place. You felt a need to defend yourself before the ink was dry. I quote your words “this is no longer an open carry bill”, shameless!

    I know I do not live in your district and that I am not one of your constituents. However, if Senator Evers has any ambition to represent Florida within the political arena of the federal house or senate you have more than likely lost any and all support from me. Your intentional deception upon the citizens of Florida has been duly noted.

    Respectfully,
    Name/Address removed from post....
    Maybe a little too harsh. Save any correspondence for when the session is over. Dean reads his emails and letters in the off season, maybe Evers does too.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Dear Senator Evers,
    It is my position that you failed on SB234. This session of the senate passed a useless law and one that was outside it’s published objective. If this was not truly an “open carry” bill it should never have be presented as if it was. It does not protect the CCW holders from aggressive anti-gun law enforcement officers. It does not protect the second amendment of the constitution. It does not change the fact that Florida is only one of seven states that ban open carry of firearms. The bill is subjective and ambiguous and does little for the citizens of Florida.

    Senator, you stood in front of everyone and made an apologetic speech about how gun owners could be arrested for accidentally exposing our firearms. This bill may have been worded as an open carry bill, but it was never intended to be an open carry bill and you knew it. It was only a matter of time before someone changed the text to match what everyone was intending it to be. In other words, you tried to get sneaky, and you are called on it. It was a cowardly way to present the bill, and it just proves that you were afraid of doing it in the first place. You felt a need to defend yourself before the ink was dry. I quote your words “this is no longer an open carry bill”, shameless!

    I know I do not live in your district and that I am not one of your constituents. However, if Senator Evers has any ambition to represent Florida within the political arena of the federal house or senate you have more than likely lost any and all support from me. Your intentional deception upon the citizens of Florida has been duly noted.

    Respectfully,
    Name/Address removed from post....
    concur 100%. to all of em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Maybe a little too harsh. Save any correspondence for when the session is over. Dean reads his emails and letters in the off season, maybe Evers does too.

    Once upon a time, I may have agreed.But seeing what they have done, or allowed to happen even if they didnt do themselves,I say no.This is PRECISELY what these clowns need to hear.
    They were voted into power by their supporters to represent THEM. NOT the FSA,not the Retail clowns,and not their own agendas.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    DO NOT for one second think that Sen. Altman or Haridopolos in any way supported this gutting of the bill!

    Sen. Altman is 100% for unlicensed OC!

  7. #7
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Maybe a little too harsh. Save any correspondence for when the session is over. Dean reads his emails and letters in the off season, maybe Evers does too.
    If I am not mistaken SB234 is not completely dead. HB517 could revive it and get it back on the senate floor. I highly doubt it with such a young house but it is possible. Another avenue is the Governor. If he vetoes it the bill will return to the senate at which time they can 2/3rd pass it or rewrite it and send it back to him.

    Now is not the time to let up on the pressure and it is now that we must relay our disgust with the current senate and the NRA.

    If I have the bill process wrong please enlighten me. The NRA is already touting its victory and preparing to defend its self when this bill fails to accomplish CCW protection.

    Harsh is what is needed and right now. This is our best chance since ’87 and I don’t think we will ever have as good a shot as we do right now with the senate and house makeup. The courtship of these senators is over until they truly represent the constitution and full OC. Nice didn’t work, time for harsh..
    Last edited by firedog; 04-30-2011 at 09:20 AM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    If I am not mistaken SB234 is not completely dead. HB517 could revive it and get it back on the senate floor. I highly doubt it with such a young house but it is possible. Another avenue is the Governor. If he vetoes it the bill will return to the senate at which time they came 2/3rd pass it or rewrite it and send it back to him.

    Now is not the time to let up on the pressure and it is now that we must relay our disgust with the current senate and the NRA.

    If I have the bill process wrong please enlighten me. The NRA is already touting its victory and preparing to defend its self when this bill fails to accomplish CCW protection.

    Harsh is what is needed and right now. This is our best chance since ’87 and I don’t think we will ever have as good a shot as we do right now with the senate and house makeup. The courtship of these senators is over until they truly represent the constitution and full OC. Nice didn’t work, time for harsh..
    OC is dead this year. We need to get just one more vote in this senate next year + get it past Dean again. That's all. If not OCDO, Florida carry, etc, push in a couple good reps from the House, like Baxley or Dorworth and get it ini 2013.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  9. #9
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    DO NOT for one second think that Sen. Altman or Haridopolos in any way supported this gutting of the bill!

    Sen. Altman is 100% for unlicensed OC!
    I agree, I have spoken to Senator Haridopolos personally. My portrayal of disappointment towards him is in a hope that he will corner Boogie and tell her “hay, you're F’ing with my supporters and I don’t like it”. Same with Altman.
    I did not pull my support from them, I simply made them aware of how I feel.

    Believe me, they can pressure each other harder then we can pressure them ourselves. As I'm sure you are aware Stogie.

    They've created a pit bull in the making right here... I just may make the 7 hr drive to the hill to knock on their door.
    Last edited by firedog; 04-30-2011 at 09:18 AM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    This sending of angry letters, especially to the wrong people, HAS TO STOP!

    Next week Florida Carry will be sending out information to all of our members and friends about a coordinated effort to pass an open carry bill next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This sending of angry letters, especially to the wrong people, HAS TO STOP!

    Next week Florida Carry will be sending out information to all of our members and friends about a coordinated effort to pass an open carry bill next year.
    To be authored by, and voted on (or against,rather) the same clowns who bothced this one? Or to ,at best, blow a bunch of smoke up our backsides, then sit back and let someone slip in an emendment that completely tanks it at the last minute again?
    Do we not learn any lessons? Worse, do we not make sure these folks we rely upon for this not learn any lessons?
    By what means do we/you/whoever intend to inform these folks that the people are not the least satisified with this outcome? That we want OC. Consitutional,if possible,but OC. Not "protected CC" or any such compromised,watered-down nonsense?
    By what means are these folks to grasp that their continued stay in Tally needs to depend on a positive outcome for those supporting/electing them?
    Its not about harping on the "wrong ones".Its about letting all of them know that the constituents they are supposed to represent are disgruntled,and that we demand better effort.
    If you are an employer,for example,and you have an employee who refuses to do the job, or at best sits back and lets other do the job,and do it poorly, do you retain that employee? Or do you send him to find employment elsewhere?

  12. #12
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This sending of angry letters, especially to the wrong people, HAS TO STOP!

    Next week Florida Carry will be sending out information to all of our members and friends about a coordinated effort to pass an open carry bill next year.
    I don’t know Stogie,
    I think these republican senators need to realize that we have come to conclusion that the original bill was a façade. Even though they proclaimed that they supported the bill we now see that it was not truly an open carry bill and we hold them accountable for their deception.

    I think you should maintain the decorum with them and let some of your pit bull backers bark and growl.
    Maybe when my blood pressure comes back down I will have a new enlightenment.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    I don’t know Stogie,
    I think these republican senators need to realize that we have come to conclusion that the original bill was a façade. Even though they proclaimed that they supported the bill we now see that it was not truly an open carry bill and we hold them accountable for their deception.

    I think you should maintain the decorum with them and let some of your pit bull backers bark and growl.
    Maybe when my blood pressure comes back down I will have a new enlightenment.
    Concur.Nice,polite,touchy-feely gets us/got us no where. I think we're deluded if we continue to think that kissing their backsides,rather than beginning work to replace their backsides.will have any more effect than before.
    Yes,it would indeed be nice if such folks could be pursueded to actually represent their electorate's intentions, and to resist the special interests,but Im really not seeing much reason to think it will. Every now and then, I think they need to see and hear discontent-pretty and eloquent or otherwise, to realize they've screwed the pooch big-time.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    I think you should maintain the decorum with them and let some of your pit bull backers bark and growl.
    Maybe when my blood pressure comes back down I will have a new enlightenment.
    Nobody in the legislature is going to let a snarling pit bill carry a gun on main street.

    But that old sheep dog who protects the flock will get his way.

  15. #15
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Nobody in the legislature is going to let a snarling pit bill carry a gun on main street.

    But that old sheep dog who protects the flock will get his way.
    Yea but they need to know that the old sheep dog will bite you if you "F" with him or his..
    The squeaky wheel get the grease but the big loud bang of the drum get the attention of the flock.

    Ok this banter is easing my stress a little... LOL gentleman..
    Last edited by firedog; 04-30-2011 at 11:06 AM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    sheep dog
    Oh gawd no, you didn't just say that...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Oh gawd no, you didn't just say that...
    That's what I was thinking. You never worry about the sheep dog you just ignore him and stay away from him. The pit bull you never take you eye off of and you never "F" with him. Feed him regularly and treat him with respect and he'll be your best friend.

    Again LOL....
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Oh gawd no, you didn't just say that...
    More like poodles, the way things are going for us, so far..

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    DO NOT for one second think that Sen. Altman or Haridopolos in any way supported this gutting of the bill!

    Sen. Altman is 100% for unlicensed OC!
    I'd like to hear them say it.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'd like to hear them say it.
    In public, and in print. Loud and clear.
    But, seeing is believing. Show me-then ACT on it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'd like to hear them say it.
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    In public, and in print. Loud and clear.
    But, seeing is believing. Show me-then ACT on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This sending of angry letters, especially to the wrong people, HAS TO STOP!

    Next week Florida Carry will be sending out information to all of our members and friends about a coordinated effort to pass an open carry bill next year.
    I know I said I would never post on here again after brboyer insulted me for the last time but I just couldn't resist. All of my correspondence to the senators have been cordial and polite as I see them. Contrary to brboyer’s to me and his ever implying attitude that I should just go away. If supporters are not what he or Sean wanted or I seem to radical for them then so be it. This is the latest Correspondence with Evers's aid My reply follows:

    From: RICE.RYAN.S02 [mailto:RICE.RYAN.S02@flsenate.gov]
    Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:40 AM
    To: 'Name removed from post'
    Subject: RE: SB234 a failure

    Mr. Name removed from post,

    Thank you for contacting our office with you concerns regarding SB 234. Senator Evers understands you frustrations, however this bill was never intended to restore open carry in the state of Florida. The intent of this bill has always been to protect those lawfully concealing a firearm from being arrested due to accidental exposure. This bill allows for brief exposure. Current law does not allow for exposure at all. This bill also clarifies the parking lot law, electronic finger prints, and removes the contiguous states provision regarding the sale of long guns. The objective was not to conform Florida’s gun laws to the gun laws of other states. Senator Evers filed this bill in reaction to a serious and growing problem regarding accidental exposure. This bill is a positive step for gun owners.

    Support for open carry simply was not there at this time and that is why Senator Evers accepted the amendment. Senator Evers is the only Senator who filed this language and is a tireless defender of 2nd amendment rights. Senator Evers will continue to work hard for gun rights.

    Please do not hesitate to contact our office with any further questions or concerns.

    God bless,

    Ryan Rice
    Legislative Assistant
    Senator Greg Evers, District 2
    24 Tarragona
    Pensacola, FL 32502
    850.595.0213 office
    850.595.0214 fax
    rice.ryan.s02@flsenate.gov

    *************************************
    My reply:

    Mr. Rice
    Thank you for your reply and I can appreciate Senator Evers’s position on this bill. I do however stand by my depiction of fact as how this bill was presented. It was the title of the bill that drove my passion to support Senator Evers and campaign for the passage of SB234. It is only now that I realize the bills title was a deception to cater to the lobbyist of USF and deceive their supporters. It will take much time for my disappointment to subside and even longer to search for truthful candidate that truly believes in and supports the second amendment of the United States Constitution.

    May god bless you and keep you safe.
    For this, the failure of SB234 has made me and my family less so.

    Respectfully,
    Name removed from post
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=firedog;1521652]I know I said I would never post on here again after brboyer insulted me for the last time but I just couldn't resist. All of my correspondence to the senators have been cordial and polite as I see them. Contrary to brboyer’s to me and his ever implying attitude that I should just go away. If supporters are not what he or Sean wanted or I seem to radical for them then so be it. This is the latest Correspondence with Evers's aid My reply follows:

    Well I hope you cool off and stick around. If the NRA isn't going to take up OC, then we have our work cut out for us. TX got theirs with no help from the NRA, even resistance from some other quarters, and it has made it to the House floor. No full time lobbyists or anything. Just grass roots movement. With more members of Florida Carry, it is doable here.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Well, for more than a few of us, "more members" is going to require a demonstrated effort to ratchet up some pressure on our Reps. and Senators.
    And to demonstrate some effort to begin seeking the replacements for the current lot in office.
    Clear, blunt pressure-not tip-toe around egos/beat around the bush -type action.
    Im not blaming Florida Carry for any of this-just saying- that the bend over,smile, and take it- response to this deception, and betrayal, is troubling, at best.

  24. #24
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    This is one I got back from my house rep. Crisafulli is a good guy and I believe him. I think their hands were tied and they more or less had to honor their senate counterparts. If you see him or his name anywhere I would say support this guy. He's going be moving up in Florida politics. Our last resort is the Governor. Not likely but I keep praying we will somehow make this right. If not we’re looking at another 24 years. I do not believe in the "relax, take it easy” approach when dealing with elected officials. As I am sure you have noticed from previous post. We need to keep up the pressure and let them know every time we get a chance that 2011 was a scam & disappointment. I still would like to see the rude threatening emails our leaders and the USF speak of. I know they didn’t come from me. A little harsh maybe but never rude or threatening. Unless you consider telling them you will not be supporting them in their future endeavors rude and threatening.

    Dear Mr. Name removed from post,
    Thank you for your email. It is unlikely that HB 517 will be taken up, as it was not considered last week on the House floor; however, I expect the House to consider SB 234, as that bill was voted on by the Senate last week and sent to the House for consideration. While I favor the provisions of HB 517, I believe that SB 234 is a start, and it will provide protection to concealed carry permit holders from legal prosecution in the event their firearms become exposed in public.

    I understand your concerns and want to reiterate that I do prefer HB 517 to SB 234. Unfortunately, sometimes, the end result we desire takes several years to achieve. If the House were to amend SB 234 with the language in HB 517, it is very likely that the entire bill would die, due to the end of the 2011 Legislative Session being just a few days away. As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, I will be sure to keep your thoughts on open carry legislation in mind moving forward.

    Respectfully,
    Steve
    ________________________________________
    From: Name removed from post
    Sent: Fri 4/29/2011 5:28 PM
    To: Crisafulli, Steve
    Subject: From 'Write Your Representative' Website

    04/29/11 5:28 PM

    To the Honorable Steve Crisafulli;

    Sir,
    Please do not surrender the language in HB517. You are our last resort to retain the true purpose of HB517 and the constitutional right of open carry. The senate failed to protect SB234. I implore you not to do the same by passing useless legislation in the house.

    Sincerely,
    Name removed from post
    Last edited by firedog; 05-02-2011 at 07:17 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    This is one I got back from my house rep. Crisafulli is a good guy and I believe him. I think their hands were tied and they more or less had to honor their senate counterparts. If you see him or his name anywhere I would say support this guy. He's going be moving up in Florida politics. Our last resort is the Governor. Not likely but I keep praying we will somehow make this right. If not we’re looking at another 24 years. I do not believe in the "relax, take it easy” approach when dealing with elected officials. As I am sure you have noticed from previous post. We need to keep up the pressure and let them know every time we get a chance that 2011 was a scam & disappointment. I still would like to see the rude threatening emails our leaders and the USF speak of. I know they didn’t come from me. A little harsh maybe but never rude or threatening. Unless you consider telling them you will not be supporting them in their future endeavors rude and threatening.
    Look at this like a project. If TX can do it without the NRA we can do it too. While orders and plans will be forthcoming later in the week per Stogie, get as many people as possible to join Florida Carry for $1 now and always.

    Texas MAY be more pro gun than Fl. From my research, I do not think they are more pro handgun than Fl. They have a serious neocon problem there also.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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