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Thread: Intro. to Concealed Carry in Virginia class - Chantilly, Virginia Sat. Aug. 6, 2011

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Intro. to Concealed Carry in Virginia class - Chantilly, Virginia Sat. Aug. 6, 2011

    Proactive Shooters will be conducting our Introduction to Concealed Carry in Virginia class in Chantilly, Virginia!

    This is the first time that this class has been offered outside of the Richmond area.

    Class will be held on Saturday, August 6, 2011 from 10am – 4pm. Location will be at the Hampton Inn Hotel, 4050 Westfax Drive, Chantilly, Virginia 20151. The cost of the class will be $55.00.


    This class will provide you with the crucial day to day information that you need to know about carrying a concealed handgun in Virginia.

    This 6 hour class is important for those who carry a handgun in Virginia, whether openly or concealed, and want to learn more about carrying that handgun safely and legally.

    Topics include:

    - ‘Concealed Carry’ vs. ‘Open Carry’.

    - The Code of Virginia and Federal firearm laws as they relate to carrying a handgun.

    - Safe interaction with law enforcement while carrying concealed.

    - Choosing the correct defensive caliber.

    - Reciprocity with other states.

    - Understanding the use of deadly force in Virginia, the Castle Doctrine, and other topics.

    You may register online here - http://proactiveshooters.com/registr...-chantilly-va/
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Jim, I gave your contact and website info to one of the Geek Squad guys in Mechanicsville Friday who will be signing up for one of your Richmond classes.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Jim, I gave your contact and website info to one of the Geek Squad guys in Mechanicsville Friday who will be signing up for one of your Richmond classes.
    Much appreciated! Thanks!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Sincere there is probably not a shooting range in the hotel, I'm guessing the class does not fulfill 18.2-308's requirement for proof of competence. Correct?

    I ask because I know two people I might send your way. But, I'll need that "proof of competence" angle to have any hope of closing them on the idea.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-01-2011 at 02:27 AM.

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    Regular Member FretlessMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Sincere there is probably not a shooting range in the hotel, I'm guessing the class does not fulfill 18.2-308's requirement for proof of competence. Correct?

    I ask because I know two people I might send your way. But, I'll need that "proof of competence" angle to have any hope of closing them on the idea.
    I didn't think live fire was needed for satisfying proof of competence. If it was required, I don't see how one could do the internet course and use it for the VA CHP. The lack of a live fire requirement also keeps us from having reciprocity with Nevada, unfortunately.

    I apologize in advance if I read or interpreted your post wrong, which is entirely possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FretlessMayhem View Post
    I didn't think live fire was needed for satisfying proof of competence. If it was required, I don't see how one could do the internet course and use it for the VA CHP. The lack of a live fire requirement also keeps us from having reciprocity with Nevada, unfortunately.

    I apologize in advance if I read or interpreted your post wrong, which is entirely possible.
    Good point. I just re-read the competence section of 18-2-308.G. No mention that the class has to actually live-fire.

    Lessee what ProShooter says about the course meeting the requirement.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-01-2011 at 04:25 AM.

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    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Good point. I just re-read the competence section of 18-2-308.G. No mention that the class has to actually live-fire.
    Yea, that's why I have a problem with the CHP 'competency requirements' in our state...we'll let someone take an internet course or sit through a lecture and make the bold leap of faith that they can handle a firearm safely and shoot straight with no requirement to demonstrate such. I've harped on it numerous times on this forum as well as USA Carry.

    From the VA State Police website:

    Documentation of Competence with a Handgun

    The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

    -Completing a hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state.

    -Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course.

    -Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state.

    -Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement.

    -Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services.

    -Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or alocality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause.

    -Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor.

    -Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.

    -Completing any other firearms training that the Virginia Department of State Police deems adequate.

    -A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any such course or class, an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant, or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall satisfy the requirement for demonstration of competence with a handgun.
    Last edited by Felix; 05-01-2011 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Bolded the applicable section
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Good point. I just re-read the competence section of 18-2-308.G. No mention that the class has to actually live-fire.

    Lessee what ProShooter says about the course meeting the requirement.
    If you read the description of the course on his website you will see what it says about whether it meets the requirement.

    http://proactiveshooters.com/general...d-carry-in-va/

    "...This course alone is not designed to meet the Virginia requirements for a concealed handgun permit, but rather it is a companion class to our Basic Firearms Safety class. We highly encourage our students to take this class as the next step in their concealed carry training. One of the most important components of this training class is the Code of Virginia section. This section covers laws that you need to be aware of when carrying a handgun with your Concealed Handgun Permit..."

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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    On another note, if anyone wants to shoot while in Chantilly, Blue Ridge Arsenal is also in Chantilly, which is an indoor range just a few blocks from the hotel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    SNIP Yea, that's why I have a problem with the CHP 'competency requirements' in our state...we'll let someone take an internet course or sit through a lecture and make the bold leap of faith that they can handle a firearm safely and shoot straight with no requirement to demonstrate such. I've harped on it numerous times on this forum as well as USA Carry.
    I'm not sure that isn't a siren song.

    While its not a good idea to handle guns unsafely, it is an even worse idea to give government the power to determine who shall and shall not have the right to defend their lives.

    Government has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that it cannot be trusted with rights. This lesson was already old when Jefferson wrote William Smith in 1787, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    Letter to William Smith: http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...rien/blood.htm

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Is there a live fire portion in hunter safety training? Personally, I don't see why that course is accepted, as it's not particularly aligned with handguns or concealed carry at all.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Is there a live fire portion in hunter safety training? Personally, I don't see why that course is accepted, as it's not particularly aligned with handguns or concealed carry at all.
    There is no live fire required by any of the approved certifications for a CHP in Virginia.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    That's because our ultimate goal is constitutional carry. Making more requirements to "prove" one's self to the state is going in the opposite direction.
    It's not the state I'm interested in; rather, I want some physical demonstration of competency so I have a reasonable assurance that I (or some other innocent bystander) won't be inadvertently shot by someone who took an internet course, purchased a handgun and started concealed carrying without ever having been required to show they understand and can implement the most basic safety measures. And are reasonably accurate at defensive handgun distances.

    Constitutional carry doesn't trump safety in my book. Now if everyone grew up shooting like they did in the 1800s, or even in rural areas today, I agree that a live-fire competency requirement needn't be considered. But my experience the few times I've been to an unmonitored public "range" indicates otherwise...I've observed instances of total disregard for basic handgun safety, people who closed their eyes when shooting, people who couldn't hit a silhouette at seven yards and people who had absolutely no earthly idea how to safely clear a jam. And you want me to just roll over and say it's OK because that's their constitutional right to carry? No thanks, I'm going to continue to press for a live-fire requirement in VA (with exemptions for police, military, folks who can certify they've satisfactorily completed a similar course, etc.).
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    It's not the state I'm interested in; rather, I want some physical demonstration of competency so I have a reasonable assurance that I (or some other innocent bystander) won't be inadvertently shot by someone who took an internet course, purchased a handgun and started concealed carrying without ever having been required to show they understand and can implement the most basic safety measures. And are reasonably accurate at defensive handgun distances.

    Constitutional carry doesn't trump safety in my book. Now if everyone grew up shooting like they did in the 1800s, or even in rural areas today, I agree that a live-fire competency requirement needn't be considered. But my experience the few times I've been to an unmonitored public "range" indicates otherwise...I've observed instances of total disregard for basic handgun safety, people who closed their eyes when shooting, people who couldn't hit a silhouette at seven yards and people who had absolutely no earthly idea how to safely clear a jam. And you want me to just roll over and say it's OK because that's their constitutional right to carry? No thanks, I'm going to continue to press for a live-fire requirement in VA (with exemptions for police, military, folks who can certify they've satisfactorily completed a similar course, etc.).
    Just a question designed to gently get you to think: who says government

    1) is the best way to handle the problem of unsafe gun handling?
    2) can be trusted to stop there?

    The NRA, if their promotional materials are to be trusted, had a huge influence on dramatically reducing gun accidents over the decades they've existed. That is to say, society addressed it successfully without asking government to handle it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    It's not the state I'm interested in; rather, I want some physical demonstration of competency so I have a reasonable assurance that I (or some other innocent bystander) won't be inadvertently shot by someone who took an internet course, purchased a handgun and started concealed carrying without ever having been required to show they understand and can implement the most basic safety measures. And are reasonably accurate at defensive handgun distances.

    Constitutional carry doesn't trump safety in my book. Now if everyone grew up shooting like they did in the 1800s, or even in rural areas today, I agree that a live-fire competency requirement needn't be considered. But my experience the few times I've been to an unmonitored public "range" indicates otherwise...I've observed instances of total disregard for basic handgun safety, people who closed their eyes when shooting, people who couldn't hit a silhouette at seven yards and people who had absolutely no earthly idea how to safely clear a jam. And you want me to just roll over and say it's OK because that's their constitutional right to carry? No thanks, I'm going to continue to press for a live-fire requirement in VA (with exemptions for police, military, folks who can certify they've satisfactorily completed a similar course, etc.).
    With all of these under trained and inexperienced shooters that have been observed that you wish to imposed standards upon before allowing them the right to self defense, what measure of harm have they caused?

    The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding w/o government mandates - the rate of injury or worse is already infinitely low. We hear that the legal public already is more accurate, safer and makes less gun related errors than LE. Making them safer would be a nice idea, but not by government imposed restrictions. Thank you, but no thanks.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    With all of these under trained and inexperienced shooters that have been observed that you wish to imposed standards upon before allowing them the right to self defense, what measure of harm have they caused?

    The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding w/o government mandates - the rate of injury or worse is already infinitely low. We hear that the legal public already is more accurate, safer and makes less gun related errors than LE. Making them safer would be a nice idea, but not by government imposed restrictions. Thank you, but no thanks.
    +1

    Also, something another wrote in a different thread jogged something for me--parents teaching kids about guns. There is no reason not to teach firearm safety, appropriate for age, in public schools.

    If elementary schools can have Fireman Day, and FBI Day, they can have Eddie Eagle afternoon. (NRA mascot for kid gun safety).

    Same thing for high schools. If they can have Armed Forces ASVAB testing for an afternoon, they can have an NRA safety lecture for an afternoon.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    It's not the state I'm interested in; rather, I want some physical demonstration of competency so I have a reasonable assurance that I (or some other innocent bystander) won't be inadvertently shot by someone who took an internet course, purchased a handgun and started concealed carrying without ever having been required to show they understand and can implement the most basic safety measures. And are reasonably accurate at defensive handgun distances.

    Constitutional carry doesn't trump safety in my book. Now if everyone grew up shooting like they did in the 1800s, or even in rural areas today, I agree that a live-fire competency requirement needn't be considered. But my experience the few times I've been to an unmonitored public "range" indicates otherwise...I've observed instances of total disregard for basic handgun safety, people who closed their eyes when shooting, people who couldn't hit a silhouette at seven yards and people who had absolutely no earthly idea how to safely clear a jam. And you want me to just roll over and say it's OK because that's their constitutional right to carry? No thanks, I'm going to continue to press for a live-fire requirement in VA (with exemptions for police, military, folks who can certify they've satisfactorily completed a similar course, etc.).
    I'm not knocking police officers or military personnel at all, but under stress even with training they miss and have hit Innocent bystanders. All the training in the world will not prepare you for a stressful situation.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    If you read the description of the course on his website you will see what it says about whether it meets the requirement.

    http://proactiveshooters.com/general...d-carry-in-va/

    "...This course alone is not designed to meet the Virginia requirements for a concealed handgun permit, but rather it is a companion class to our Basic Firearms Safety class. We highly encourage our students to take this class as the next step in their concealed carry training. One of the most important components of this training class is the Code of Virginia section. This section covers laws that you need to be aware of when carrying a handgun with your Concealed Handgun Permit..."
    Thank you, scouser for posting that. Sorry that I haven't responded sooner. I just came back in from the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh yesterday and spent Sunday with the family.

    The ICC course is not designed to use as proof of competency for the CHP. For the CHP, we use either our Basic Firearms Safety class or Utah permit class. The ICC course is more of an information session that discusses more details about concealed carry, VA law, etc which is a totally different topic than gun safety (which the Code requires).

    Many of ourf NOVA students who take our BFS class at the Nation's Gun Show in Chantilly have been asking me for about 2 years to offer this class in Northern Va. That's why we've schedueld it as a special class. We usually only offer it in Richmond.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 05-02-2011 at 09:55 AM.
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    It's not the state I'm interested in; rather, I want some physical demonstration of competency.......
    Actually, you are not using the correct term here. What you want is a physical demonstration of proficiency, not competency. Proficiency is physical, competency is mental (Ex - is a defendant competent to stand trial, meaning do they have the mental abilities to understand what is happening around them and the consiequences of what may happen.)

    Proficiency, IMHO is also not something that is demonstrated once. An instructor watching someone shoot 50 rounds at a target, to me doesn't demonstrate that you are "proficient in the safe usage of a firearm". Proficiency is something that I think is demonstrated by doing things correctly and safely over an extended period of time, but I digress.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Bump...seats are still available.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    The constitution trumps all other laws.

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
    +1
    and bump

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Registration remains open....seats are still available.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Registration remains open....seats are still available.
    Have you posted a schedule of classes for the rest or the year Jim?
    Also, what's the site address?

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap
    Have you posted a schedule of classes for the rest or the year Jim?
    Also, what's the site address?
    don't know when Jim will get back to you but I found this very easily on his website, which gives the schedule until the middle of December

    http://proactiveshooters.com/course-calendar/

  25. #25
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    As scouser mentioned, our full calendar is available on our website, www.ProactiveShooters.com.

    Thanks!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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