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Thread: Effective Communication with Anti-OC Legislators.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Effective Communication with Anti-OC Legislators.

    Calling and writing the reps and senators who stood against us right now will have no positive impact.

    It is really odd that people are writing rude letters to some Senators and Reps who actually support us!

    STOP!

    There is a plan being finalized to bring these fence sitters over to our side with a coordinated effort through the off session by using constituent meetings, lawful OC events, and planned legislator communications.

    These few people who are calling and sending angry letters are hurting our efforts by making OC'ers look like a bunch of unreasonable, hot headed, ignoramuses. And the ugly letters and calls are going to the people who's minds we might have been able to change! Not if you keep that up! STOP!

    I know you are mad and feel betrayed. SO DO I! But now is the time to consolidate, regroup, learn from what we did right and what we did wrong, and get ready for the next push.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Calling and writing the reps and senators who stood against us right now will have no positive impact.

    It is really odd that people are writing rude letters to some Senators and Reps who actually support us!

    STOP!

    There is a plan being finalized to bring these fence sitters over to our side with a coordinated effort through the off session by using constituent meetings, lawful OC events, and planned legislator communications.

    These few people who are calling and sending angry letters are hurting our efforts by making OC'ers look like a bunch of unreasonable, hot headed, ignoramuses. And the ugly letters and calls are going to the people who's minds we might have been able to change! Not if you keep that up! STOP!

    I know you are mad and feel betrayed. SO DO I! But now is the time to consolidate, regroup, learn from what we did right and what we did wrong, and get ready for the next push.
    + infinity

    We only need one senate vote and to get it past Dean. If we all work together there is no reason we can't do this next year.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Really folks? What are they likely to do,by us stroking their egos,and grovelling even more? Are they likely to suddenly reverse-course on this topic and re-hash next year what they already torpedoed this year?

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    But, that said, I do see your points-to an extent.
    How about this: a 2-pronged approach. Carot and Stick,if you like.
    You guys grovel and beg and ego-stroke for us on the diplomatic front-armed with the BUG of "failing to move onto our path,we have folks willing to work up your potential replacements next election."
    That's not blackmail, that's not a threat. That's simply stating "look, represent us, as we elected you to do so,or we will be forced to look to new representation".
    Last edited by j4l; 04-30-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Really folks? What are they likely to do,by us stroking their egos,and grovelling even more? Are they likely to suddenly reverse-course on this topic and re-hash next year what they already torpedoed this year?
    Um. Yes. Happens all the time.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Um. Yes. Happens all the time.
    If that's the case then, I'd have to question their reliability and their sincerity. What's to say they wont reverse-course yet again, once the FSA and others raise their opposition to our efforts? How can one trust someone who swings one way this week, then the opposite way the next?
    What we need is stick-to-the-guns reps.Not wishy-washy/change with the storm types.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Calling and writing the reps and senators who stood against us right now will have no positive impact.

    It is really odd that people are writing rude letters to some Senators and Reps who actually support us!

    STOP!

    There is a plan being finalized to bring these fence sitters over to our side with a coordinated effort through the off session by using constituent meetings, lawful OC events, and planned legislator communications.

    These few people who are calling and sending angry letters are hurting our efforts by making OC'ers look like a bunch of unreasonable, hot headed, ignoramuses. And the ugly letters and calls are going to the people who's minds we might have been able to change! Not if you keep that up! STOP!

    I know you are mad and feel betrayed. SO DO I! But now is the time to consolidate, regroup, learn from what we did right and what we did wrong, and get ready for the next push.
    Stogie,
    I don’t know how long you have been in the political lobby game (and that is what you are, a lobbyist) but I can tell you nice doesn’t always work. These guys need to know that you are willing to get mean come campaign time. They need to know that a portion of your (Florida Carry) membership is on the leash and willing to deploy unwelcome tactics if they do not truly support your organization. Same with the NRA.

    I saw it for many years dealing with firefighter lobbyist. Fortunately the firefighters were 2 million strong and extremely well organized. The legislators did not want them to turn against them at any point in time. They were well received by the public and their voices carried a lot of weight. If you research some of the firefighter’s victories they accomplished what many said could not be done.

    Just FYI.. The smile and nod from legislator is taught to them as interns from the beginning of their careers in office
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    You have to know when not to be nice. Now is not that time. You have to use the stick at a time when it will have devastating effect, not before.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    You have to know when not to be nice. Now is not that time. You have to use the stick at a time when it will have devastating effect, not before.
    Exactly. Are any of them even coming up for re-election before 2012?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Exactly. Are any of them even coming up for re-election before 2012?
    Election is not the only time you can have an impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    You have to know when not to be nice. Now is not that time. You have to use the stick at a time when it will have devastating effect, not before.
    When might that time be, exactly?After they betray us next time?

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    You have to know when not to be nice. Now is not that time. You have to use the stick at a time when it will have devastating effect, not before.
    Dude, how can a defeat perpetrated by a lie not be the time? Once they are no longer the majority it will be too late. If you can’t get this bill passed with this legislative makeup it will never happen. Them being offended by us will not affect their position on this bill. I still think they need to be called to the carpet for their façade. The senators that proclaimed to support the bill as it was intended and presented to us need to be made aware that we no longer believe their words and only their actions will persuade us. They need to know how many members just rescinded their support for them and are currently looking for other candidates to support. Be it republicans in the house or anyone we can get to run against them next term. I’m done writing to mine and I will wait until I see them personally to voice my frustration. I think your future efforts will only be made stronger and heard louder if we make our views now known.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    When might that time be, exactly?After they betray us next time?
    1. Writing threatening letters to the senators and calling them angrily does not help.
    Is your goal to yell at them until they say: "Wow, this guy is really mad and is threatening me and my staff. I think I'll make it easier for him to carry a gun!"

    2. No. As I said before, multiple times, there will be a coordinated effort to fix this announced in a few days.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I want heads to roll badly but will defer to Stogie since he has taken the initiative to organize events and is partly responsible for getting an OC bill introduced toTallahassee in the first place. Others might want to consider that.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    1. Writing threatening letters to the senators and calling them angrily does not help.
    Is your goal to yell at them until they say: "Wow, this guy is really mad and is threatening me and my staff. I think I'll make it easier for him to carry a gun!"

    2. No. As I said before, multiple times, there will be a coordinated effort to fix this announced in a few days.
    When has anyone threatened anyone? And with what? All anyone has suggested is to let these clowns know that failing to represent their voters can/should/probably will result in their not being elected next time.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    1. Writing threatening letters to the senators and calling them angrily does not help.
    Is your goal to yell at them until they say: "Wow, this guy is really mad and is threatening me and my staff. I think I'll make it easier for him to carry a gun!"

    2. No. As I said before, multiple times, there will be a coordinated effort to fix this announced in a few days.
    Threatening with any mention of violence is not acceptable. Mentioning that we are disappointed and “may” be searching for other candidates that truly support our efforts is speaking the truth and will be seen as such.

    Please enlighten us as to the “coordinated effort” you speak of. I don’t think the empty holster thing is going to work nor the “I’m fishing” thing either. An “unarmed” polite coat and tie trip to Ft. Lauderdale may be effective if we can put a couple of hundred district constituents in line to speak to her.

    I still think the NRA was at fault here and they are as much to blame as the senators.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I want heads to roll badly but will defer to Stogie since he has taken the initiative to organize events and is partly responsible for getting an OC bill introduced toTallahassee in the first place. Others might want to consider that.
    And kudos to him for it,no one's denying that.By all means keep the diplomatic efforts going,BUT- do so armed with the stick of a disgruntled electorate that intends it to be known that future failures are not an option to continued occupation of their positions.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This is why I haven't sent anything... :-p

    No one would like to see these people tortured slowly to death than me. And I sure as hell don't want to be nice to them. But I know that they never represent the will of the people. They know the power of their position and will not be swayed by anything but brown-nosing.

    Let "Sir" be the new "Phuck You" in your vocabulary. I hate it when people call me sir, because I know what it really means when I say it...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    This is why I haven't sent anything... :-p

    No one would like to see these people tortured slowly to death than me. And I sure as hell don't want to be nice to them. But I know that they never represent the will of the people. They know the power of their position and will not be swayed by anything but brown-nosing.

    Let "Sir" be the new "Phuck You" in your vocabulary. I hate it when people call me sir, because I know what it really means when I say it...
    Ok, so we do have a bonehead or two. Every crowd has it's nutbars.

    But by and large Im pretty sure you/and they in Tally, know that no one has shown up at their steps with pitchforks or nooses or called for an armed insurrection in Florida,this one above me,being the exception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    1. Writing threatening letters to the senators and calling them angrily does not help.
    Is your goal to yell at them until they say: "Wow, this guy is really mad and is threatening me and my staff. I think I'll make it easier for him to carry a gun!"

    2. No. As I said before, multiple times, there will be a coordinated effort to fix this announced in a few days.
    Maybe you can give us a hint of your plan? I think some of us are angry and might be knee jerk reacting to this. Give us an idea, it would help to cool down things!

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    1. Writing threatening letters to the senators and calling them angrily does not help.
    Is your goal to yell at them until they say: "Wow, this guy is really mad and is threatening me and my staff. I think I'll make it easier for him to carry a gun!"

    2. No. As I said before, multiple times, there will be a coordinated effort to fix this announced in a few days.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Maybe you can give us a hint of your plan? I think some of us are angry and might be knee jerk reacting to this. Give us an idea, it would help to cool down things!
    That’s what I’m worried about also. Maybe sometime in the next 24 years (’87-’11) we will be able to get some Florida senator to introduce new legislation for OC. Maybe this time they won’t put up the pretense that they are actually attempting to get open carry. This will be right about the time the NRA says “yea, we're all for gun rights, now lets see if we can get that federal ammunition ban repealed”. Maybe Florida will really support open carry if we can’t buy bullets for our guns.

    The NRA "F" us and everybody knows it.
    Last edited by firedog; 04-30-2011 at 01:53 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    Maybe you can give us a hint of your plan? I think some of us are angry and might be knee jerk reacting to this. Give us an idea, it would help to cool down things!
    Knee-jerk? We were strung-along with winks,nods,and placating smiles for a while before being turned around and bent over the podium.
    Now it's considered to be somehow radical, or outrageous to be a bit irate about it, or to express being so.
    Did any of them actually expect to get away with saying "nay" or "wait a minute,let's play word-games with it one last time, and kill it off" and be congratulated for it?
    There needs to be a back-lash for it.They need to hear and feel that backlash for it, in order to understand that most of us are not content to whimper off quietly into obscurity with no consequences.
    Failing to do so sends entirely the wrong message to those we elect to represent us.It tells them "no problem, we forgive you for failing us,and denying us our basic rights, could you please bend me over some more?"
    Last edited by j4l; 04-30-2011 at 01:46 PM.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Knee-jerk? We were strung-along with winks,nods,and placating smiles for a while before being turned around and bent over the podium.

    Did any of them actually expect to get away with saying "nay" or "wait a minute,let's play word-games with it one last time, and kill it off" and be congratulated for it?
    Yep, the NRA congratulated the hell out of them.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Yep, the NRA congratulated the hell out of them.
    I stand corrected. But I meant did they expect US to actually thank them for the bend-over,and ask for more? or...?


    Oh,wait..there I go getting delusional again...WE dont matter..

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Knee-jerk? We were strung-along with winks,nods,and placating smiles for a while before being turned around and bent over the podium.
    Now it's considered to be somehow radical, or outrageous to be a bit irate about it, or to express being so.
    Did any of them actually expect to get away with saying "nay" or "wait a minute,let's play word-games with it one last time, and kill it off" and be congratulated for it?
    There needs to be a back-lash for it.They need to hear and feel that backlash for it, in order to understand that most of us are not content to whimper off quietly into obscurity with no consequences.
    Failing to do so sends entirely the wrong message to those we elect to represent us.It tells them "no problem, we forgive you for failing us,and denying us our basic rights, could you please bend me over some more?"
    I agree with you, I feel like doing something about it now, thats why I ask what is the plan. I am just so angry at the F***tard liars!

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