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Thread: A HG doesn't solve everything?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    A HG doesn't solve everything?

    Just discussing this. I had an incident as a young adult, driving back from the beach, not a car on the road at night. This car appears and starts tailgating me - fairly closely, too. I speed up, slow down to 40 (65mph road) - he sticks on me. Doesn't do anything else. Couldn't see inside, me and the wife. Finally, on an inside turn I get slightly behind him and an exit shows up and I put on the blinkers and start to get off. He jumps in front when he sees this and I fake him out, he's past the point of no return and I jump back on the highway and go 80 and manage to lose him.

    But, even with a HG, I would still have been in fear and not known what to do. Ordinarily, the hoped for effect of carrying is to no longer live in fear of assault. Having the gun and even some tactical awareness doesn't solve everything.

    If I had been carrying, I'd have been tempted to brandish to get this guy to back off. Obviously, that solves nothing since he'd have my license plate, but back then, no cell phones, it might have been the better option. I'm just glad I solved it tactically.

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    I keep my hearing protection around the stick shift lever for just such an occasion.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I once was driving home kinda late here in MD, all by myself in my S10. Basically I took this main road but it went through mostly rural areas. There was no one else on the road usually at this hour, but that night some a-hole got up on me and tailgated me for 20-25 mins maybe. The road I was on was parallel to the freakin interstate with plenty of on ramps( I didn't like going on there at night due to all the 18 wheelers, and the deer that run across it- hitting a deer at 75mph is not fun), so anyone who wants to go as fast as NASCAR drivers do can do so on the interstate, and obviously this person on my butt SHOULD have gotten onto I83 if they wanted to go fast. The road I was on was 45mph speed limit. After such a long period of time with this jerk not relenting, I started to get scared- something is wrong with this person behind me. Oh yes, no other traffic coming the other way and several spots they could have lawfully passed me ( dotted lines for passing easy to see by headlight). I decided to see how good an engine that Chevy had and when I got to the next area where the road is pretty straight for a while, I went probably 75mph if not more to get way ahead of this person, and if there was a cop up ahead who got in behind me with the lights on, I would have been more than glad to pull over for them and tell them why I was speeding like that, and maybe the crazy car would go by and I could say "that might be them right there". Thankfully the weirdo tailgating me did not speed up to catch up to me and I did not have anyone on my tail the rest of the drive home. No cops either. I think there are 3 county ones on shift in that entire area at any given time. It's a pretty big area to cover. Generally no SP on that stretch of the interstate either.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Just discussing this. I had an incident as a young adult, driving back from the beach, not a car on the road at night. This car appears and starts tailgating me - fairly closely, too. I speed up, slow down to 40 (65mph road) - he sticks on me. Doesn't do anything else. Couldn't see inside, me and the wife. Finally, on an inside turn I get slightly behind him and an exit shows up and I put on the blinkers and start to get off. He jumps in front when he sees this and I fake him out, he's past the point of no return and I jump back on the highway and go 80 and manage to lose him.

    But, even with a HG, I would still have been in fear and not known what to do. Ordinarily, the hoped for effect of carrying is to no longer live in fear of assault. Having the gun and even some tactical awareness doesn't solve everything.

    If I had been carrying, I'd have been tempted to brandish to get this guy to back off. Obviously, that solves nothing since he'd have my license plate, but back then, no cell phones, it might have been the better option. I'm just glad I solved it tactically.
    Having a pistol in your car is protection with no need to brandish. I'd have pulled over and watched what he did. If he stopped, I'd have the SIG or Hi-Power in my hand, thumb on the safety. If he got out, I would too and have my wife go behind the car as I made it very clear that I was armed. Maybe having a gun and tactical training doesn't solve everything, but it sure as hell can make an unwinnable situation reversed.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    I don't understand your story... he was tailgating, then you were behind him? What?


    WHatever... anyways, here's the thing to do. IT's really simple, and it works EVERY time I do it...


    When someone comes up behind you and tailgates do not do anything EXCEPT lightly tap the brakes with your other foot so that the light comes on.... don't let off the gas... don't slow down.. just turn on the brake lights. I mean sometimes people just aren't paying attention or whatever... so IF they don't get the hint, it's time to take some strong action.. do the following as soon as you can:

    Step 1.
    Assume they have their wife in the car, and she's about to have a baby.
    Step 2.
    Turn on your right blinker
    Step 3.
    Slowly and safely pull to the side of the road or shoulder, allowing them to pass.
    Step4. Re-enter the roadway and go about your business.


    VERY simple and EVEN MORE effective. No road rage. No rising Blood Pressure... no anger because after all, who wouldn't want to get their wife to the hospital quickly... that guy wasn't being a jerk.. he clearly just had an emergency.... so you were glad to get out of his way and let him get to the hospital as quickly as possible... You did your good deed for the day... lol..


    Anyways, I seriously do this... Brake jobs and gettin all pissy are nothing but asking for problems. De-escalating situations is what it's all about...


    amirite?!
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 05-05-2011 at 03:48 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    amirite?!
    Maybe mostly, but you don't say anything about the possibility that the driver might actually be a homicidal maniac.

    Likely not, but none of us carry because we are "likely" to be victims.

    When you decide to signal and pull over, ideally you want it to be in a place with other people around. If you are in the boonies as this story seems to tell, then you would want to make sure you were in a place that would allow your escape, no matter what the other driver did, i.e. no matter where they might position their car in relation to yours, you want to make sure you're going to have a way to quickly get back out on the road again.

    You don't want to let yourself get backed into a corner where your handgun is your last line of defense.

    I am not a security expert, but this just seems to make common sense to me.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I'm remembering this story from the late 1980s, so I'm not crystal on how I got behind him but it was going around a curve on the Interstate where I got in the fast lane and managed to get on his six, just before an exit.

    The spooky parts were - I couldn't see into the car (tinting?), there were literally no other cars in sight for almost a mile, it was early morning coming back from the beach after vacation trying to miss the traffic. Also, besides tailgate me, he/she/it didn't do anything particularly threatening, didn't cut me off. It went on for at least 15-20 minutes until I managed to fake him into turning off an exit and it just so happened that exit didn't have a quick return ramp.

    At any rate, I'm just thinking aloud that even with layers of protection, good team work, caution, and safe driving and other habits, a HG doesn't guarantee one feels safe out there. Being in traffic and being parked in front of convenience stores involves large, potentially dangerous vehicles, driven by crazy people who act normal outside of the driver's seat (heh).

    Even using the tactic of letting the BG make the first move (as in pulling over) is dangerous because he's still 'mobile' and you are not (for the time you're stuck in the car). If all 4 doors open and people swarm you, you will get caught. Alone on the road at night it's situation which can disintegrate quickly - just sayin'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    I don't understand your story... he was tailgating, then you were behind him? What?


    WHatever... anyways, here's the thing to do. IT's really simple, and it works EVERY time I do it...


    When someone comes up behind you and tailgates do not do anything EXCEPT lightly tap the brakes with your other foot so that the light comes on.... don't let off the gas... don't slow down.. just turn on the brake lights. I mean sometimes people just aren't paying attention or whatever... so IF they don't get the hint, it's time to take some strong action.. do the following as soon as you can:

    Step 1.
    Assume they have their wife in the car, and she's about to have a baby.
    Step 2.
    Turn on your right blinker
    Step 3.
    Slowly and safely pull to the side of the road or shoulder, allowing them to pass.
    Step4. Re-enter the roadway and go about your business.


    VERY simple and EVEN MORE effective. No road rage. No rising Blood Pressure... no anger because after all, who wouldn't want to get their wife to the hospital quickly... that guy wasn't being a jerk.. he clearly just had an emergency.... so you were glad to get out of his way and let him get to the hospital as quickly as possible... You did your good deed for the day... lol..


    Anyways, I seriously do this... Brake jobs and gettin all pissy are nothing but asking for problems. De-escalating situations is what it's all about...


    amirite?!
    Well done. You also gain the advantage by being in the trailing position.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    If someone comes up too close, and you don't mess with them... and when you pull over to let them by, and they slow down, or pull over too... then you know you have a problem and need to either continue ahead of them and try to get somewhere safe, or make a couple turns or whatever.. but we all know that's VERY unlikely. MOst likely it's just a jerk in a hurry and might as well let them by so they can ruin someone elses day and spill their negativity on them.

  10. #10
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    If the person who was tailgating me was in a hurry they should have taken the freakin interstate we were parallel to that has entry ramps every 3-5 miles, so my guess is that something was wrong with them upstairs and they were deliberatly antagonizing me.

    I had another "crazies" incident, but was daylight in PA and my mom was with me, and plenty of other traffic. I just ignored the jerkhole, and nothing came of it.

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    All I ask from other drivers is a little common courtesy, (which I am willing to give), and when you see me coming up behind you, (you are using your mirrors right?) then just move over. If we were on foot, and I was in a hurry, I would simply say a polite, "excuse me please" and I expect you would let me by. Why does that change in a car? I would exchange pleasantries with you if I could, really, but you can't hear me, so why be rude, standing in my path? Its not your place do determine my speed, its mine, its not your ticket if the .gov abuses its power and trust and chooses to rob me at gunpoint for breaking some rule.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40coyote View Post
    If the person who was tailgating me was in a hurry they should have taken the freakin interstate we were parallel to that has entry ramps every 3-5 miles, so my guess is that something was wrong with them upstairs and they were deliberatly antagonizing me.

    I had another "crazies" incident, but was daylight in PA and my mom was with me, and plenty of other traffic. I just ignored the jerkhole, and nothing came of it.


    I'm not saying you aren't COMPLETELY correct in your assessment. I'm just saying be the bigger person. Who's the adult? Who's teh mature and responsible person? Don't play games. Just let them by. A jerk is still a jerk, don't let yourself become one and possibly put yourself in a dangerous situation.

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    "Slowly and safely pull to the side of the road or shoulder, allowing them to pass."

    Dead wrong. And can get you killed out-right, if for some reason ill-intent (which you cannot know for sure either way,until it is too late) is in fact present. Slow/stop/pull aside just makes you a much easier target if they are trying to do something.
    Never stop, pull over, slow down or get out for ANY reason. Continue on your way-as safely as you can, until you can get someplace with a lot of people-even better if you can drive to a police station.

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    Negative. Get behind the person, that puts you in control if they wish to escalate, and allows the other 99.99% who just want to be in a rush to leave your area on thier own.

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    I used to have this problem with tailgaters as a truck driver. Mostly late at night. I would put my 4-ways on and drop my speed. They get bored after a while and go on by. No problems.

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    The only time I would follow a truck closely is when I am out of gas, or if they are in the center lane. I'll harass the heck out of those guys, rolling roadblocks. When theres people going around you on both sides, you're doin' it wrong.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I don't mean to focus the thread on tailgating or bad driving really. I'm trying to highlight that being armed doesn't always make you (feel) safe. On the highways, it's the car as a weapon that trumps the HG. It's essentially a 70 mph bullet that weighs 2 tons.

    In fact, I consider getting into and out of a car to be a very vulnerable time. Predators wait to pounce at that time when you're preoccupied. In one case they were lurking and followed a guy into his house and robbed him.

    We always keep the doors locked until seat-belts are off, keys in pocket and can access our protection. We scan the parking lot and then disembark. It's done as a habit and it's pretty easy to do.

    In the Waffle house case, having a HG didn't help those women who had no opportunity, time or space to deploy. I suspect even several people OC-ing would not have helped, unfortunately. I don't want to sound like an 'anti-' but it might have ended up in a bloodbath.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Are you kidding me? Pull over? It's a 2 lane roadway, do I pull into the oncoming lane? This idiot had plenty of actual legal places he/she could have passed me using the other lane, plus that nice "go as fast as you want cuz SP doesn't really patrol that section of" interstate they could have easily gotten onto. I wasn't going to pull over where there was a shoulder area either, what then, they pull over too and then things really escalate with chases and stuff? There was NO ONE else on the road, just me and them. In MD too, do you think MSP will grant me a precious 24/7 carry lisc? They only give those out to politically special people. I decided to be the "chase" and dammit if they want me to play NASCAR, well there you go! Since they did not hit the gas to keep up with me, does that automatically mean they were just some dude in a hurry? At the very least, they were just rude since they had other easy options. I didn't do the slow way down and weave across lanes so they can't pass thing LOL.

    Oh yeah, the Baltimore/ DC area is right at the top of places with largest # of rude drivers LOL. Must be the water or the gun laws or something. The driving did seem to get better in NoVA LOL, well at least past Tysons Corner. I'm glad I wasn't the one driving down there either way though.

  19. #19
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Are you kidding me? Do you think there is a mob hit on your head? I've done this at least a thousand times. Even if there is no shoulder.. with your blinker on and if you slow and pull to the right of the lane/roadway, they pass you and you can go about your business...

    That's ok, keep being stubborn... see where it gets you.

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    Im with HK on this one, dont try that crap in Michigan, some people around here are a little off.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I try to avoid confrontation PERIOD. What I did that night worked. When I realized that something was REALLY going on I sped up really fast and it solved the problem. Nobody is going to help me but myself in a rural area at night like that. I did think of pulling over, but thought they might also pull over and really start something. My 6th sense was tingling. Lots of nuts out there. I also really don't understand why you are siding with someone who was driving rudely. Tailgating is rude- period. And unsafe, esp at night on a rural 2 lane where the deer population is 5 times the carry capacity. And if a cop saw it and wanted to, they can pull someone over for doing it and ticket them for " following too closely".

    BTW I don't drive at night like that anymore.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    The two time I actually needed a gun it would not have done me any good.

  23. #23
    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    I never oc a weapon to make me feel safe. I oc in case I need one in the situations that will call for one to protect me and keep me alive.

    As too the tailgating. I would have stayed in front of the person til I was in a public area I felt safe in.

    We all to often think that someone who has bad driving habits is up to no good. Most are just in that me, my, I state of mind and are probably not even thinking of you. But if they are harassing you I would just continue on my way and head stright to the local leo post. Get out and go in and tell someone. Let them go pull em over and talk to them.

    As to this day and age I would just call 911 report a possible road rage incident and let a leo pull em over. They will either get charged or if not it will give you time to keep going and get far away from them. The leo's are not gonna charge you with a crime if you have a percieved fear. They would rather you call them than something actually happen.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    As we get older and lose a step, carrying a HG definitely makes me feel 'safer'. I realize it's somewhat of an illusion, because the types of situations one might encounter which would be solved by use of a HG (not necessarily firing it, either) are extremely rare.

    It's probably best to consider a HG as a backup weapon and the cell phone, camera and other tactical tools (OC spray, tactical flashlight, cane) as a primary for most urban situations. Get 'em on video, call 911, drive away, defuse, evade, escape.

    There are some situations such as those described where a BG approaches at a gas pump, or someone starts pounding on the door where having a HG makes you feel safer and more in control so that you can exercise other options first, if possible.

    $.02

  25. #25
    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    I don't agree with HK or Stainless on this - maybe you all can clarify.

    Given the circumstances as described, something (someone?) hinky was going on in the car behind as Badger reported . Slowing down to allow a car to pass takes care of the "having a baby in the car" group - what's left ? Too few good choices.
    I feel the safer place is in front: you are not dependent of the other car's behavior dictating your actions. If they stop in the middle of the road...

    All in all, having your weapon with you seems a better option than not having one...even if you leave it in the holster.

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