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Thread: NRA calling Florida bills "Rounds 25, 28 & 29" ???

  1. #1
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    NRA calling Florida bills "Rounds 25, 28 & 29" ???

    If anyone knows what rounds are or what they reference I'd like to know.

    I was scanning the NRA's News ticker on their main page when I saw "REPORT on Rounds 25, 28 & 29" Government and Privacy Violations and Concealed Weapons Reform in Florida" So that's what SB 234 was about, CCW "reform"

    Gee didn't you think a large part of the bill was about OPEN CARRY???

    For those who think you can rely on the NRA to back OC good luck with that.

    Perhaps you should read this too...
    Senate Bill 234, introduced by Senator Greg Evers (R-2), was heard on the state Senate Floor on Wednesday, April 27 and amended to tighten the open carry protection language. Yesterday, SB 234 came up on the Senate Floor for debate and final passage and PASSED the Senate by a 26 to 11 vote and is now on its way to the Florida House where it must go to the floor of the full House.
    Amended to "tighten the "open carry" protection language? Really? So now preventing arrest for brief, accidental exposure of the weapon is "open carry" protection???

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6700
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FzSBLACKMAGICK View Post
    If anyone knows what rounds are or what they reference I'd like to know.
    I was scanning the NRA's News ticker on their main page when I saw "REPORT on Rounds 25, 28 & 29" Government and Privacy Violations and Concealed Weapons Reform in Florida" So that's what SB 234 was about, CCW "reform"
    Gee didn't you think a large part of the bill was about OPEN CARRY???
    For those who think you can rely on the NRA to back OC good luck with that.
    Perhaps you should read this too...
    Amended to "tighten the "open carry" protection language? Really? So now preventing arrest for brief, accidental exposure of the weapon is "open carry" protection???
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6700
    That is just a shame, more fraud and deceit. They refuse to admit that they were defeated on the title of the bill. They continue to call SB234 a victory. Florida Carry you were duped.. I hope you see that.
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    What is the problem they have supporting Open Carry?

    I just noticed they refuse to call the Texas OC bill an OC bill but a "Right to Carry" Bill

    "Texas: Right-to-Carry bill gains traction in House" With that title would you guess it has anything to do with OC>?

    but when you click on the link...you get...
    Texas is one of only seven states which does not have some form of an open carry law. This week, members of the House Committee on Homeland Security and Public Safety passed an open carry bill.
    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=15077
    Oh but wait NRA, according to you Florida's Senate just approved a bill complete with "Open Carry protection", so I guess that makes Texas one of six.

    Sorry about your luck Texas, you really need to join the rest of us who have "open carry protecton".
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Rounds....like in a boxing match.

    The bill was mainly about open carry, well the public statements were for protection against arrest for unintentional exposure until such time as the amendments was adopted...(well actually before that, behind closed doors, for what ever reason). Way back in November/December the numbers looked overwhelmingly in favor of real open carry.

    Then politics happened. That is life, accept it, learn from it, prepare better for it next time, relax take a deep breath and work in an organized fashion to fix it.

    Oh and of course the NRA had to spin the amendment it in a favorable way, because they surely cannot come out against their own bill, now can they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Rounds....like in a boxing match.

    The bill was mainly about open carry, well the public statements were for protection against arrest for unintentional exposure until such time as the amendments was adopted...(well actually before that, behind closed doors, for what ever reason). Way back in November/December the numbers looked overwhelmingly in favor of real open carry.

    Then politics happened. That is life, accept it, learn from it, prepare better for it next time, relax take a deep breath and work in an organized fashion to fix it.

    Oh and of course the NRA had to spin the amendment it in a favorable way, because they surely cannot come out against their own bill, now can they?
    Mainly about open carry? The "f"ing thing was titled "Open Carry" it should have remained "open carry".
    Oh so now it's an NRA bill? Not a gun owners bill, not a citizens protection bill, not a constitutional wrong done right bill, it's an NRA bill. So I guess that’s what justifies their deceit when presenting it as the "Open Carry Bill". Stop spinning the betrayal..
    Last edited by firedog; 05-01-2011 at 06:04 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FzSBLACKMAGICK View Post
    What is the problem they have supporting Open Carry?

    I just noticed they refuse to call the Texas OC bill an OC bill but a "Right to Carry" Bill

    "Texas: Right-to-Carry bill gains traction in House" With that title would you guess it has anything to do with OC>?

    but when you click on the link...you get...
    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=15077
    Oh but wait NRA, according to you Florida's Senate just approved a bill complete with "Open Carry protection", so I guess that makes Texas one of six.

    Sorry about your luck Texas, you really need to join the rest of us who have "open carry protecton".
    Guns scare the crap out of some people, why? I don't know and will never understand it as it's completely irrational.

    My own mother is one of them. She was never exposed to them directly till I bought my first shotgun at 18. She would literally flinch when she would see it out in the "Open". She could not explain it, it was just something that she reacted to. Even after 30+ years of being around me and my guns, she still has that fear and no amount of logical discussion will change that. But she, unlike a lot of others, understands it is my right to have/carry them.

    So the Anti's feed on people's fear, plain and simple.

    Then there are other groups, the government for example, that have a vested interest in keeping the population unarmed. They also use scare tactics to garner support for their position from the 70% I talked about earlier.

    Oh, and even among 'gun people', there is a significant negative view of open carry, that is even stranger still. Just go read some of the open carry stories on non-open carry sites and you will see what I mean. And don't even get me started on the issue of log-gun open carry. You can't even talk about that on this site.....it scares people and it's not 'normal' for anyone to want to do that...WTF?


    Also, we all know what the second amendment is really about, so does everyone else involved in this issue politically. But can you imagine going in front of most any group and campaigning on the real meaning of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Guns scare the crap out of some people, why? I don't know and will never understand it as it's completely irrational.

    My own mother is one of them. She was never exposed to them directly till I bought my first shotgun at 18. She would literally flinch when she would see it out in the "Open". She could not explain it, it was just something that she reacted to. Even after 30+ years of being around me and my guns, she still has that fear and no amount of logical discussion will change that. But she, unlike a lot of others, understands it is my right to have/carry them.

    So the Anti's feed on people's fear, plain and simple.

    Then there are other groups, the government for example, that have a vested interest in keeping the population unarmed. They also use scare tactics to garner support for their position from the 70% I talked about earlier.

    Oh, and even among 'gun people', there is a significant negative view of open carry, that is even stranger still. Just go read some of the open carry stories on non-open carry sites and you will see what I mean. And don't even get me started on the issue of log-gun open carry. You can't even talk about that on this site.....it scares people and it's not 'normal' for anyone to want to do that...WTF?


    Also, we all know what the second amendment is really about, so does everyone else involved in this issue politically. But can you imagine going in front of most any group and campaigning on the real meaning of it?
    Maybe they need to attend some classes. I highly recommend these guys: Never Mind....
    Last edited by firedog; 05-01-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Mainly about open carry? The "f"ing thing was titled "Open Carry" it should have remained "open carry".
    Oh so now it's an NRA bill? Not a gun owners bill, not a citizens protection bill, not a constitutional wrong done right bill, it's an NRA bill. So I guess that’s what justifies their deceit when presenting it as the "Open Carry Bill". Stop spinning the betrayal..
    I said 'mainly' because it had a couple other elements.

    As I keep saying, if you don't not act rational (and I don't think you are), no one will listen to you.

    I'm almost to the point of adding a few people here to my ignore list. I know you could care less, but if you knew anything about me you would understand what an extreme step that is...I'm often chided for my own aggressive stance on 2A and 4A issues. But I'm smart enough when it crosses the line to unproductive, uninformed, crazy nut-case rhetoric.

    Yes, it was an NRA sponsored bill: The NRA publicly stated that the intent, all along, was to keep folks from being arrested for inadvertent display by decriminalizing open carry as the most effective manner to address that.

    There was never enough support, in either house for a direct repeal of 790.053. So language had to be developed in such a manner to gain support for licensed open carry and then licensed open carry with restrictions and finally to language that attempts to meet the stated need.

    As I've stated many, many times, most of the folks here going on the warpath have no concept of the politics involved, the compromises involved even before the bill was introduced. So if everyone would just take a deep breath, calm down and let serious adults work on a strategy going forward, that would be most productive....all this other crap is not helping in any way.
    Last edited by brboyer; 05-01-2011 at 06:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Guns scare the crap out of some people, why? I don't know and will never understand it as it's completely irrational.

    My own mother is one of them. She was never exposed to them directly till I bought my first shotgun at 18. She would literally flinch when she would see it out in the "Open". She could not explain it, it was just something that she reacted to. Even after 30+ years of being around me and my guns, she still has that fear and no amount of logical discussion will change that. But she, unlike a lot of others, understands it is my right to have/carry them.

    So the Anti's feed on people's fear, plain and simple.

    Then there are other groups, the government for example, that have a vested interest in keeping the population unarmed. They also use scare tactics to garner support for their position from the 70% I talked about earlier.

    Oh, and even among 'gun people', there is a significant negative view of open carry, that is even stranger still. Just go read some of the open carry stories on non-open carry sites and you will see what I mean. And don't even get me started on the issue of log-gun open carry. You can't even talk about that on this site.....it scares people and it's not 'normal' for anyone to want to do that...WTF?


    Also, we all know what the second amendment is really about, so does everyone else involved in this issue politically. But can you imagine going in front of most any group and campaigning on the real meaning of it?
    What's amazing to me is that people are afraid of OC. I don't believe in any "gun control" laws at all and I like and am not afraid around guns. But if I saw someone who didn't look thoroughly professional printing through a shirt or inadvertently exposing a weapon, I'd be on alert, especially because it's illegal without a permit. But, if OC were legal and I saw someone doing it, I wouldn't be scared at all. I've seen and done it in other states and nobody cared. What evil intention could such a person possibly have? If I were afraid of armed citizens, I'd want a Wisconsin type situation. People have an irrational fear of guns, introducing them into society will go far to exposing its irrationality.

    We shouldn't worry about appeasing the FSA and other law enforcement groups. We have to go through them, not around them. The painful truth is that they don't care about public safety and they don't want you armed. If they set gun policy in the state, you'd have to donate $10,000 to the sheriff in order to purchase a revolver. That's the way they like it.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    I was checking the vote history for SB234. Dean voted "Nay" on an accidental exposure bill???!!!

    http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/201...s0234e1002.PDF


    Was it an accident or is he an idiot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigmalg View Post
    I was checking the vote history for SB234. Dean voted "Nay" on an accidental exposure bill???!!!

    http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/201...s0234e1002.PDF


    Was it an accident or is he an idiot?
    Hence big problems next year. Even if we get a sponsor it will have to go through CJ I would think.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    I said 'mainly' because it had a couple other elements.

    As I keep saying, if you don't not act rational (and I don't think you are), no one will listen to you.

    I'm almost to the point of adding a few people here to my ignore list. I know you could care less, but if you knew anything about me you would understand what an extreme step that is...I'm often chided for my own aggressive stance on 2A and 4A issues. But I'm smart enough when it crosses the line to unproductive, uninformed, crazy nut-case rhetoric.

    Yes, it was an NRA sponsored bill: The NRA publicly stated that the intent, all along, was to keep folks from being arrested for inadvertent display by decriminalizing open carry as the most effective manner to address that.

    There was never enough support, in either house for a direct repeal of 790.053. So language had to be developed in such a manner to gain support for licensed open carry and then licensed open carry with restrictions and finally to language that attempts to meet the stated need.

    As I've stated many, many times, most of the folks here going on the warpath have no concept of the politics involved, the compromises involved even before the bill was introduced. So if everyone would just take a deep breath, calm down and let serious adults work on a strategy going forward, that would be most productive....all this other crap is not helping in any way.
    "Not rational, ignore list, let the serious adults". Not a problem Sir. I apologize for attempting to participate in the group. I was not so passionate over open carry until I saw the in justice of what happened to SB234. I’m sorry my passion offended you. I worked for many years on the federal Legislature in order to get the firefighter’s heart lung bill. Something people said would never happen. I worked for many years on the public safety officer’s death benefit of which is now worth $300,000 to each and every firefighter killed in the line of duty. I’m sorry I am not a rational, serious adult in your eyes. I do know how governments work and what they respond to. I’m sorry we will not be communicating any longer. You will not see another post from me on these fourms. If I could get a refund for my donation to Florida Carry I would request it post haste. If you can assist with that the paypal address I paid it with is firedog@cfl.rr.com. Have a nice life and good luck to you in the future…
    Last edited by firedog; 05-01-2011 at 07:03 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigmalg View Post
    I was checking the vote history for SB234. Dean voted "Nay" on an accidental exposure bill???!!!

    http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/201...s0234e1002.PDF


    Was it an accident or is he an idiot?
    Dean is the Biggest Idiot that most people have yet to see his real colors... He lies and smiles while doing it, He had years of practice with his Sheriff job...

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    "Not rational, ignore list, let the serious adults". Not a problem Sir. I apologize for attempting to participate in the group. I was not so passionate over open carry until I saw the in justice of what happened to SB234. I’m sorry my passion offended you. I worked for many years on the federal Legislature in order to get the firefighter’s heart lung bill. Something people said would never happen. I worked for many years on the public safety officer’s death benefit of which is now worth $300,000 to each and every firefighter killed in the line of duty. I’m sorry I am not a rational, serious adult in your eyes. I do know how governments work and what they respond to. I’m sorry we will not be communicating any longer. You will not see another post from me on these fourms. If I could get a refund for my donation to Florida Carry I would request it post haste. If you can assist with that the paypal address I paid it with is firedog@cfl.rr.com. Have a nice life and good luck to you in the future…
    I'm just a member and we don't need to get too offended by idiots telling us how we should act, if the sites owner tells you how ignorant or stupid or otherwise how you are then stop posting and request a refund, But many members will scrub many wrong and that is what happens, Everyone is disappointed and discouraged over this law that we had all hoped for, If this doesn't show people how twisted things are in the government then nothing will, The leaders could not care a bit about how you feel until it is nearing election time and the NRA doesn't care as long as their bank account is growing with membership dues, so just either abide your time and carry the best way you can or keep hoping to see real change and not for the worse either... Please reconsider your stopping the posting and active use of the site because some are hostile in their comments... United we stand, Divided we fall..

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    Rounds....like in a boxing match.
    Not so sure that's it...what happened to "rounds" 26 & 27"? What boxing match goes that high?

    The bill was mainly about open carry, well the public statements were for protection against arrest for unintentional exposure until such time as the amendments was adopted...(well actually before that, behind closed doors, for what ever reason). Way back in November/December the numbers looked overwhelmingly in favor of real open carry.
    We were told by Ever's aide they had 24 right up to the moment they canned it.

    Then politics happened. That is life, accept it, learn from it, prepare better for it next time, relax take a deep breath and work in an organized fashion to fix it.
    Then BS happened. Good luck with that, I have a feeling long after I leave Florida and am open carrying in my state of choice, you'll be still trying to get it to happen here. I believe it will take years and years if ever.

    Oh and of course the NRA had to spin the amendment it in a favorable way, because they surely cannot come out against their own bill, now can they?
    The question is wrong, it's not whether they could come out against their own bill, no one would expect that. What they should do is come out against the people who are against it. Right now on the NRA's site they are asking for help on bills of theirs that are floundering. They did no such thing here because they couldn't care less about open carry. For some reason they're in love with CC and always will be..."CC reform bill" ....please.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    "Not rational, ignore list, let the serious adults". Not a problem Sir. I apologize for attempting to participate in the group. I was not so passionate over open carry until I saw the in justice of what happened to SB234. I’m sorry my passion offended you. I worked for many years on the federal Legislature in order to get the firefighter’s heart lung bill. Something people said would never happen. I worked for many years on the public safety officer’s death benefit of which is now worth $300,000 to each and every firefighter killed in the line of duty. I’m sorry I am not a rational, serious adult in your eyes. I do know how governments work and what they respond to. I’m sorry we will not be communicating any longer. You will not see another post from me on these fourms. If I could get a refund for my donation to Florida Carry I would request it post haste. If you can assist with that the paypal address I paid it with is firedog@cfl.rr.com. Have a nice life and good luck to you in the future…
    Good for you...now take that passion and work with the groups involved and let's make open carry, and constitutional carry, a reality in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister45 View Post
    I'm just a member and we don't need to get too offended by idiots telling us how we should act, if the sites owner tells you how ignorant or stupid or otherwise how you are then stop posting and request a refund, But many members will scrub many wrong and that is what happens, Everyone is disappointed and discouraged over this law that we had all hoped for, If this doesn't show people how twisted things are in the government then nothing will, The leaders could not care a bit about how you feel until it is nearing election time and the NRA doesn't care as long as their bank account is growing with membership dues, so just either abide your time and carry the best way you can or keep hoping to see real change and not for the worse either... Please reconsider your stopping the posting and active use of the site because some are hostile in their comments... United we stand, Divided we fall..
    You misunderstood me, not surprisingly based on your other posts. I am a member here just as you are, I have no authority to do anything, my opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them - nothing.

    The ignore list is just a method members can use so they don't have to look at posts from another member. In has no impact of the site as a whole, just one's view of it.

    I'm just as disappointed as others are, maybe more so because of my direct involvement, but I don't let that cloud my better judgment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    ...let's make open carry, and constitutional carry, a reality in Florida.
    We truly need to get deep down and involved and see why Florida and all its politicians fought and changed the open carry law back in the 80's to honestly begin with, I did carry at one point and time and most local businesses placed signs stating that open carry was illegal and that we would be told to leave if we carried openly, I honestly believe that we should be allowed to openly carry, But at least those that have the CCW permit can carry for the time being, I honestly want to see more freedom in the carrying open , But until we find someone willing to open the issues up that caused the laws to be changed in the first place and until we find someone willing to address the concerns and fears, then it will be a long wait till that law is lifted... I don't see it coming around with no one taking a stand and saying what the people want...

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    Everyone on this site has just been told to go to heII!
    http://www.ammoland.com/2011/05/01/r...carry-blogger/

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    Quote Originally Posted by FzSBLACKMAGICK View Post
    Not so sure that's it...what happened to "rounds" 26 & 27"? What boxing match goes that high?



    We were told by Ever's aide they had 24 right up to the moment they canned it.



    Then BS happened. Good luck with that, I have a feeling long after I leave Florida and am open carrying in my state of choice, you'll be still trying to get it to happen here. I believe it will take years and years if ever.



    The question is wrong, it's not whether they could come out against their own bill, no one would expect that. What they should do is come out against the people who are against it. Right now on the NRA's site they are asking for help on bills of theirs that are floundering. They did no such thing here because they couldn't care less about open carry. For some reason they're in love with CC and always will be..."CC reform bill" ....please.
    You still don't get it. The NRA got exactly what they wanted and asked for - the protection from prosecution for accidental display of a firearm - just not in the manner we all wanted. (I won't go into the crappy language in the bill)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigmalg View Post
    I was checking the vote history for SB234. Dean voted "Nay" on an accidental exposure bill???!!!

    http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/201...s0234e1002.PDF


    Was it an accident or is he an idiot?
    He didn't like Boggie's amendment and wanted OC to stay?

    LOL
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    You misunderstood me, not surprisingly based on your other posts. I am a member here just as you are, I have no authority to do anything, my opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them - nothing.

    The ignore list is just a method members can use so they don't have to look at posts from another member. In has no impact of the site as a whole, just one's view of it.

    I'm just as disappointed as others are, maybe more so because of my direct involvement, but I don't let that cloud my better judgment.
    Your attitude towards other members tend to lend to the smelly side of things, When we should be focused on getting together and agreeing together to get a right re-established and get our rights returned to the focus of open carry and since I may have misunderstood you, Then I will go back over and read and see if that is possible, But still the posts would accomplish more if they were focused on getting a right restored and not about people and their ways of thinking or towards someone with disrespect... I just think there is more to be accomplished then to cause others to walk away with a smelly attitudes... lets get our minds together and focus on getting back a right and not offending others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    You still don't get it. The NRA got exactly what they wanted and asked for - the protection from prosecution for accidental display of a firearm - just not in the manner we all wanted. (I won't go into the crappy language in the bill)
    The bill was a bill for Open Carry, it had no language about an oops until the amendment.

    Who wrote this bill? Evers or the NRA?

    My whole point here is we would of been better off without the NRA's involvement.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister45 View Post
    Your attitude towards other members tend to lend to the smelly side of things, When we should be focused on getting together and agreeing together to get a right re-established and get our rights returned to the focus of open carry and since I may have misunderstood you, Then I will go back over and read and see if that is possible, But still the posts would accomplish more if they were focused on getting a right restored and not about people and their ways of thinking or towards someone with disrespect... I just think there is more to be accomplished then to cause others to walk away with a smelly attitudes... lets get our minds together and focus on getting back a right and not offending others.
    That is exactly what I have been saying...My comments to some members is in an attempt to get them to stop typing for a minute and consider what they are saying and more importantly how they are saying it. But it appears that I have failed.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by mister45 View Post
    We truly need to get deep down and involved and see why Florida and all its politicians fought and changed the open carry law back in the 80's to honestly begin with, I did carry at one point and time and most local businesses placed signs stating that open carry was illegal and that we would be told to leave if we carried openly, I honestly believe that we should be allowed to openly carry, But at least those that have the CCW permit can carry for the time being, I honestly want to see more freedom in the carrying open , But until we find someone willing to open the issues up that caused the laws to be changed in the first place and until we find someone willing to address the concerns and fears, then it will be a long wait till that law is lifted... I don't see it coming around with no one taking a stand and saying what the people want...
    Sean (Stogiec) wrote an article about that I'll try to dig it up. Maybe he can point to it but it had something to do with Janet Reno believe it or not.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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