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Thread: Marion Hammer says open carry movement in Fl responsible for fate of SB 234

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Angry Marion Hammer says open carry movement in Fl responsible for fate of SB 234

    http://www.ammoland.com/2011/05/01/r...carry-blogger/

    Yes, if our lawmakers really believed in our rights this wouldn't have been an issue, but that's not the case.

    If this is true, thanks a lot a$$hats.

    "Unfortunately, because of the behavior of some overzealous, rude, ill-mannered, open carry supporters calling legislative offices and bullying, demanding, and threatening, Senators and their staffs, the bill had to be amended to gain support for passage.

    Bad behavior of a few open carry supporters, NOT law enforcement and NOT the business community caused this bill to be amended — because the idea of ill-mannered bullies carrying firearms openly scared the heck out of people."

    I guess it does make sense. That's why after the Rules committee hearing Evers said he had 24 votes. HAHA!! Way to go. Awesome. You succeeded where the left/liberals and neocons failed.
    Last edited by 77zach; 05-01-2011 at 08:50 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Is this the same Marion Hammer?


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    People can blame anything they want on anyone... Does not make it true... sure I can almost guarantee people wrote stupid stuff, but most of these senators all ready have their minds set.... Emails wont change a persons mind.
    Last edited by WwRGSwW; 05-01-2011 at 10:08 PM.

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    Who is the blogger she is referencing? He/She really got under her skin.

    You are the one with no credence, and if you don’t want to renew your membership with USF, fine. We’ll miss you like we miss a migraine."
    IDK, I just can't see a lot of people writing mean spirited letters and making obnoxious phone calls BEFORE the amendment was adopted. At that point many believed it would be ok as we were told by Ever's aide that we had 24 and she had already withdrawn it once seeing she didn't have the votes.

    I could see it happening after but before not so much.

    Personally, all I ever used were well worded letters written here and by FOC and the only one I ever called was Hammer herself asking her if she thought it would pass and thanking her for her work and support.

    What can you do? If it's true it would seem they have some pretty thin skins and there's nothing to stop them from using it as an excuse every time.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Interesting to see her stress the fact (and call out by name) that NO websites had ANY hand in introducing these bills in the Florida Legislature...contrary to what some posters here have claimed.

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    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seminoles1999 View Post
    Is this the same Marion Hammer?

    Please post the url for this Video. I want it for future reference. Thank's

    Also She is a "liar" if you listen to the Audio from 0.00 until 2.40 she makes a statement that not allowing open carry is silly and this is for open carry, But in the statement she made in http://www.ammoland.com/2011/05/01/r...arry-blogger/l "SB-234 and HB-517 were filed on behalf of NRA and USF and they were NEVER about “open carry.” Neither OpenCarry.org or FloridaCarry.org had anything at all to do with the purpose, the drafting, or the filing of those bills."

    also listen from 4.30 to 4.40 "It is not just about open carry!"
    Last edited by Rick H; 05-02-2011 at 03:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    Please post the url for this Video. I want it for future reference. Thank's

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzVJn3JkXOQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by seminoles1999 View Post
    Thank You
    God Bless America.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WwRGSwW View Post
    People can blame anything they want on anyone... Does not make it true... sure I can almost guarantee people wrote stupid stuff, but most of these senators all ready have their minds set.... Emails wont change a persons mind.
    It is no doubt in my mind that the open Carry/Florida Carry movement got duped by the NRA and Ms. Hammer. I have seen the tactic for many years. The professional lobbyist recruit inexperienced “grass roots” groups that desire to introduce a legislative issue contrary or could possibly jeopardize theirs. They ask you to combine your issue into their bill and combine your resources. As you support them and the bill moves forward they make back room deals against your issue. If your issue is controversial they make deals to support the senators until such time as they can amend the bill and drop the controversial language. They do it all the time. Than after it is all said and done and there is nothing you can do about they blame you for your failure and being so naive to think your issue would ever be addressed. The NRA said it “it was never about open carry” yet they name the bill open carry.

    Ms. Hammer did an excellent job and she is a professional lobbyist that knows exactly what she is doing. NRA did it to Florida in ’87 and they did it again in 2011.

    Read her own words and take note:
    “The following is in response to a blogger/website owner who is one of the overzealous “open carry” supporters whose behavior is far beyond arrogant and offensive — and who only cares about “open carry” and cares nothing about other gun owners and gun rights. He is attacking NRA & USF because SB-234 and HB-517 Relating to Firearms, was amended on the Senate floor. Those bills are our concealed weapons & firearms license reform/improvement bills that were filed for the purpose of protecting the rights of concealed weapons license holders. These response explains this issue and what the “open carry” faction has done in Florida — Marion Hammer

    SB-234 and HB-517 were filed on behalf of NRA and USF and they were NEVER about “open carry.” Neither OpenCarry.org or FloridaCarry.org had anything at all to do with the purpose, the drafting, or the filing of those bills.

    (Note: FloridaCarry.org intended to file their own bill this year to provide for “full constitutional open carry.” When they couldn’t find sponsors for their bill, they decided to support NRA/USF bills. Subsequently, some of their members started attacking NRA/USF because our bills didn’t give them all they were demanding. —)”

    It is sad but it is reality. Open Carry in Florida is dead for many many years. If you financially support anyone that tells you different your efforts will be futile. This was the best and last opportunity for a movement like this. There are people on this forum that that are telling people it’s not over. I question their motives. Ms. Hammer said it, “When they couldn’t find sponsors for their bill, they decided to support NRA/USF bills”. That is probably true and it will be the same for a long time. No senator will ever introduce an open carry bill in the future. It will have to be another attachment to a popular bill that the senate needs. Seeing that there are very little pro gun related issues left for Florida I do not see that happening, most likely ever. I have but a few more years before I retire and I don’t think I will be staying in Florida. Good luck and never forget what the NRA did to you. If it was a "concealed weapons & firearms license reform/improvement bill" then it should have been name as such.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    No senator will ever introduce an open carry bill in the future. It will have to be another attachment to a popular bill that the senate needs. Seeing that there are very little pro gun related issues left for Florida I do not see that happening, most likely ever.
    OC, constitutional carry, removal of college and bar bans. What else remains? This is an argument for getting rid of the ban. I don't think Hammer likes the OC ban. She's saving face right now. It may have been about CC protection, but she can't claim a victory. It will be back.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    She's flat out full of ****. End of discussion. There was nothing to bully about prior to it being amended.Just another limp-wristed excuse,and scapegoating -provided to her lock,stock and barrel-after the fact by folks right here amongst us saying "take it easy, etc"

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    She's flat out full of ****. End of discussion. There was nothing to bully about prior to it being amended.Just another limp-wristed excuse,and scapegoating -provided to her lock,stock and barrel-after the fact by folks right here amongst us saying "take it easy, etc"
    Could be. May have been a false flag attack by anti's, if true.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    This is why I no longer support the NRA.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67Mopar View Post
    This is why I no longer support the NRA.
    Join Florida Carry. We're going to have to get OC without the NRA like they're doing in TX
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    In case you're interested, it would seem the source of her anger came from one of the site admins of the Florida Shooter's Network...scroll down until you see the FSN's admin's post and you can read the whole back n forth between the two.

    http://www.floridashootersnetwork.co...macher#p703210
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    Hello everyone.

    "Unfortunately, because of the behavior of some overzealous, rude, ill-mannered, open carry supporters calling legislative offices and bullying, demanding, and threatening, Senators and their staffs, the bill had to be amended to gain support for passage."
    Who is Ms Hammer dealing with, 12 y/o school girls? We made the Senators "mad" so they won't play nice with us? That's b.s. on her part obviously.

    "firedog" above hit the nail in the head. The NRA played us like a fiddle. They put "open carry" in there, got all of us to passionately support the bill sending letters and making calls, and at the last minute, switched to what they wanted from the start and that's that. At the very least the NRA sent conflicting messages regarding "open carry" but only when "accidentally" exposed.

    I think its about time we get our own bill proposal and then get the NRA to endorse us just so we can use their leverage.

    JR

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    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    I really don't know what to make of her. I actually used one of her videos in my Criminal Justice class to raise the students' awareness regarding the ongoing debate. Her points were cogent, intelligent, and masterfully bulleted (especially compared to some of the rambling rants I've seen -- including my own).

    It was always kind of obvious that her open carry stance was more for accidental exposure than for full open carry. Her support for OC was tenuous, and although we can still call her an ally of sorts, she did feed us to the dogs and is now in the process of branding us as the Taliban fringe of the gun rights movement.

    She forgets one thing, mate: I'm captain Jack Sparrow. Lol. She won her round and the question remains: do we demonize her and allow her to Talibanize us (not kidding -- the NRA is not to be f~€£*d with), or do we show her how happy we are for her partial victory and ask: "Massa, when you gonna get us OC? Someday soon? We'll do what ya ask!"

    Two approaches. Make no mistake: ignoring her is not an approach, although sending the NRA our mass resignation letters (or mass complaint letters) and blaming her sellout could be absolutely MASSIVE.

    They might care if we:
    1. Point to her sellout as the reason
    2. Point to the NRAs lack of support for OC as a reason
    3. Tell them who we are (and how big)
    4. Tell them that we've always loved them, been members for a while, and recently feel betrayed

    So if we are going to demonize, let's do it where it can cost her her job -- unhappy members (thousands of us) because of her. I like it.

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    Well Captain, I've been thinking...The FSN does not represent the Open Carry movement to the best of my knowledge so I hope she doesn't lump all who desire having their constitutional right to carry concealed and/or openly into some category reserved for people who are rude and inconsiderate based on the writings of one admin from that site. That would be unfortunate.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, I appreciate her work and support on ALL of the gun bills that have come to pass in Florida, there have been many and they've done nothing but benefit us all. Though some might add...until now. Well, it's not over. This woman is a fighter. I don't think she likes losing...anything. I think she'll be back.

    Now I don't know when and I don't know if I want to to wait that long because I don't know how long it will be.
    However, I don't see the harm in drafting a letter up to show her we ain't no bad guys and that we support her, we thank her and hope she will revisit the OC issue in Florida and leave it at that.

    There's no bad blood between us to the best of my knowledge and don't see why there should be.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

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    overzealous, bullying, rude, and threatening. pah.

    they said the very same thing about us here in TX two years ago, but we could find NOBODY in any organization or an individual who could provide any evidence whatsoever of said conduct.

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    Hi. Well, what do they expect? I've gotten so many "charge!" emails from the NRA its not funny. They get us wound up about it, urging us to write letters and make calls but provide no direction on what to say. I know I need to be polite and respectful and that's how I wrote my letters. But leave it up to some of the most passionate amongst us and they're bound to get a whopper here and there.

    So yes, we'll take the bill making it's round now. It will help us if we inadvertently show the bit. But we want full open freakin' carry! I have the suspicion we were headed in that direction initially and even the Florida Sheriffs Association was behind it, if reluctantly. They even provided suggestions on the use of safety holsters and whatnot. Something changed along the way and they made a 180 on their position. I can only guess that kind of push power came with approval from the NRA.

    Seeing how Ms Hammer describe hurt feelings in the Senate, it could've been that two of the Senators showed up with the same tie and refused to talk to each other that day. I don't know, it seems silly to say a state law is dismissed based on a Senator's hurt feelings. But then again, after watching them for 7 hours straight the other day, bickering and being so immature about everything, that shouldn't surprise me.

    JR

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