A Michigan Cop denied the right to carry in NY state

FireStar M40 · May 9, 2011

I Thought Everybody Knew That..

The only handgun permit/license NY State recognizes is its own "LCP".. and depending whether or not it has any restrictions on it, even then you could be in trouble!

NY State is a good place to be from.. "as far from as you can get"! :lol:

FireStar M40

YoZUpZ · May 19, 2011

Not to be rude or anything, but if they aren't going to let me carry a firearm, I don't give two hoots if they don't let someone who thinks they are privileged, carry a firearm because he/she is "ex CO", "ex LEO", "current CO", "current LEO", or the POTUS... You aren't any more special, nor do you have any more or any less of a right to carry a firearm than any other law-abing citizen of the United States.

Don't fight for the "privilege" to carry a firearm because you think you are special. Demand that your rights be respected and uninfringed upon.

since9 · May 20, 2011

YoZUpZ said:
Not to be rude or anything, but if they aren't going to let me carry a firearm, I don't give two hoots if they don't let someone who thinks they are privileged, carry a firearm because he/she is "ex CO", "ex LEO", "current CO", "current LEO", or the POTUS... You aren't any more special, nor do you have any more or any less of a right to carry a firearm than any other law-abing citizen of the United States.

Don't fight for the "privilege" to carry a firearm because you think you are special. Demand that your rights be respected and uninfringed upon.

All I might say in response to that is that despite how I might personally feel about any current POTUS, I would still give my life for either him or his office if called upon to do so, and that "call" isn't one I might expect from the outside. It's simply a sworn duty, and as a duty sworn, I'd do it in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

It's the nature of the office, my stature as an officer appointed by a standing President of the United States of America, and that's pretty much that's that.

Most people don't get that. Some do. Good for them.

sudden valley gunner · May 20, 2011

since9 said:
All I might say in response to that is that despite how I might personally feel about any current POTUS, I would still give my life for either him or his office if called upon to do so, and that "call" isn't one I might expect from the outside. It's simply a sworn duty, and as a duty sworn, I'd do it in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

It's the nature of the office, my stature as an officer appointed by a standing President of the United States of America, and that's pretty much that's that.

Most people don't get that. Some do. Good for them.

Even if what he called you to do something unconstitutional? (curious)

I would only give my life in protection the same as any other human being not because he is our employee.

since9 · May 22, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Even if what he called you to do something unconstitutional? (curious)

I would not follow an unlawful order. I would protect our President.

sudden valley gunner · May 23, 2011

since9 said:
I would not follow an unlawful order. I would protect our President.

Understood, thank you. I would too just as I would protect any other human being if I was able.

c45man · May 23, 2011

KBCraig said:
He only needs to move east, about 120 miles.

LEOSA does not mention job titles. It has included corrections personal from the beginning, state or federal, as long as they have statutory powers of arrest.

Anyone who qualifies, either active or retired, is covered no matter what their job title is or was.

Then there was no reason to change the law to include railroad police, who have statuatory power of arrest. How about campus police officers who have power of arrest, they are not included in even the improved officers safety act. It is not cut and dry relative to simply having statutory arrest powers. The original act passed in 2004 had many exclusionary provisions within such legislation.

c45man · May 23, 2011

tmac55 said:
I am a retired New York State Police Officer. twenty five years decorated service with a new york state pistol permit. I currently live in Texas with a concealed license also.
I contact NYS Attorney General's office to see if i could bring a gun into the state while vacationing in NEW YORK upstate area. The answer was NO. I am no longer a resident and my permit is not valid. 25 years of service means nothing. I vacation in florida now.

Perhaps you should contact the authorities in Texas to apply for and qualify under the provisions of the officers safety act. With such qualification card, you can carry in your former state of new york and any other state or possession.

There are provisions for qualifying retired out of state officers.

KBCraig · May 23, 2011

c45man said:
Then there was no reason to change the law to include railroad police, who have statuatory power of arrest. How about campus police officers who have power of arrest, they are not included in even the improved officers safety act. It is not cut and dry relative to simply having statutory arrest powers. The original act passed in 2004 had many exclusionary provisions within such legislation.

If the campus police are employed by a government agency, they're covered.

Cinder dicks were added because they're employed by private companies; private campus cops could lobby for the same.

c45man · Jun 4, 2011

KBCraig said:
If the campus police are employed by a government agency, they're covered.

Cinder dicks were added because they're employed by private companies; private campus cops could lobby for the same.

Your right KB, but it is a rare situation where campus cops are employed by a government agency. They are employed by the college, but go through the same training as police officers, such officers have jurisdiction only within the confines of the campus. In Pennsylvania, the police officer training is covered under ACT 120.

On a side note, it is interesting how the improved officers safety act actually defines ammunition as anything that is not deemed as illegal by the federal government. This is to clear up, what was already quite clear in the original Officers Safety Act of 2004, regarding the carrying of hollow points by out of state officers in New Jersey.
The attorney general in that sad excuse for a state was doing a lot of saber rattling regarding prosecuting out of state officer for carrying hollow points under the color of the Officers Safety Act.

since9 · Jun 6, 2011

c45man said:
Then there was no reason to change the law to include railroad police, who have statuatory power of arrest. How about campus police officers who have power of arrest, they are not included in even the improved officers safety act. It is not cut and dry relative to simply having statutory arrest powers. The original act passed in 2004 had many exclusionary provisions within such legislation.

Private citizens have statutory power of arrest, under certain circumstances, so that was the criteria by which they excluded us.

I think the exclusionary provisions were to exclude anyone who'd not attended an official police academy. Colorado Mounted Rangers "are the oldest statewide law enforcement organization in Colorado, originally organized in 1861." They are a law enforcement organization and are trained to P.O.S.T. standards.

They were still excluded.

What it is is the good old boy program. A police state evolved over the last 100 years and if you're not in, you're out, regardless of how much of what other type of training you may have.

c45man · Jun 9, 2011

since9 said:
Private citizens have statutory power of arrest, under certain circumstances, so that was the criteria by which they excluded us.

I think the exclusionary provisions were to exclude anyone who'd not attended an official police academy. Colorado Mounted Rangers "are the oldest statewide law enforcement organization in Colorado, originally organized in 1861." They are a law enforcement organization and are trained to P.O.S.T. standards.

They were still excluded.

What it is is the good old boy program. A police state evolved over the last 100 years and if you're not in, you're out, regardless of how much of what other type of training you may have.

The good ole boy program it may be, but it is more likely that due to products(s) of compromise that some agencies were included and other excluded. In reviewing the history of the Officers Safety Act, which was first considered as far back as the mid nineties, there was much concern and controversy brought on by anti-gun politicians from states like N.J., MD., N.Y., etc. The proposed legislation never got very far in the process. Then came 9/11. This tragedy caused the springboard that enabled this legislation to get through the senate and house, but along the way there was compromises, exclusions, and many if and, and buts. Even to this day, attorney generals and police administration officials from states like N.J. still make intimidating statements to the carriers that take advantage of the above legislation.

j2l3 · Jun 9, 2011

c45man said:
Your right KB, but it is a rare situation where campus cops are employed by a government agency. They are employed by the college, but go through the same training as police officers, such officers have jurisdiction only within the confines of the campus. In Pennsylvania, the police officer training is covered under ACT 120.

In Washington state we have at least two universities with campus police departments. They are all trained by the state Criminal Justice Training Commission , commissioned by the state and their jurisdiction is NOT confined to the campus.

Do I think they deserve special treatment? No.

I'm just trying to clarify the above posters statement. It may apply in his state, but is not universally true.

c45man · Jun 9, 2011

j2l3 said:
In Washington state we have at least two universities with campus police departments. They are all trained by the state Criminal Justice Training Commission , commissioned by the state and their jurisdiction is NOT confined to the campus.

Do I think they deserve special treatment? No.

I'm just trying to clarify the above posters statement. It may apply in his state, but is not universally true.

Jurisdiction in Washington and not in Pa., point is mute. Federal law does not include campus police irregardless of jurisdiction boundries, and as stated earlier, inclusions and exclusions were determined by compromises and deal making, much like most other matters that are taken up by politicians. Perhaps in years to come and pressure from campus police organizations, which are becoming more of a factor, the policy will be revisited and the LEOSA will again be changed.
This is an interesting exchange, and I don't want to beat it to death. That being said, the two universities in WA. that you refer to may employ commissioned officers relative to having arrest powers in that state, but they are not employed by a political subdivision, county, city, etc.

since9 · Jun 14, 2011

c45man said:
Perhaps in years to come and pressure from campus police organizations, which are becoming more of a factor, the policy will be revisited and the LEOSA will again be changed.

It's a thin hope, but my hope is that the title be changed to the U.S. Citizens Safety Act (USCSA), and reduced in length to read, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Unfortunately, the previous act, er, Amendment carrying those words has suffered from the hands of unscrupulous people, lawyers, politicians, and judges attempting to bend and twist it every which way other than in the manner in which it was originally intended.

...may employ commissioned officers...

That's the term for which I was looking in the midst of all my talk of police academy training. In the armed forces, the difference between a commissioned officer and all other forms of officership is that only a commissioned officer can be the commanding officer of a unit. How that relates to the typical "officer/deputy/corporal" graduating from a police academy, I have no idea.

We-the-People · Jun 15, 2011

c45man said:
.....That being said, the two universities in WA. that you refer to may employ commissioned officers relative to having arrest powers in that state, but they are not employed by a political subdivision, county, city, etc.

I didn't see mention of WHAT univeristies they were. If they are state universities, then they may very well be political subdivisions of the state and the state may very well be their employer.

Political subdivisions of a state can include: Counties, Cities, Municipal districts, Community College districts, University systems, even water districts and mosquitoe abatement districts.

Here in Oregon, Community Colleges are political subdivisions of the stat

c45man · Jun 20, 2011

We-the-People said:
I didn't see mention of WHAT univeristies they were. If they are state universities, then they may very well be political subdivisions of the state and the state may very well be their employer.

Political subdivisions of a state can include: Counties, Cities, Municipal districts, Community College districts, University systems, even water districts and mosquitoe abatement districts.

Here in Oregon, Community Colleges are political subdivisions of the stat

If that is the case, those college officers should research the possibility of pursuing the action path of getting the qualification card under the LEOSA, if they have not so already. Being from Pennsylvania, I do not know the structure of college law enforcement in the state of Oregon or any other state outside of Pa.

A Michigan Cop denied the right to carry in NY state

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YoZUpZ

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sudden valley gunner

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