View Poll Results: Uncle Ted (Nugent) at NRA Pittsburgh meeting

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  • Did you attend the NRA 2011 meeting ?

    1 33.33%
  • Did you attend the Uncle Ted Experience Sunday ?

    0 0%
  • Do you remember his comments about Open Carry ?

    0 0%
  • Did you react to or act on these comments ?

    2 66.67%
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Thread: Thank you Uncle Ted - But... NRA Meeting

  1. #1
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    Thank you Uncle Ted - But... NRA Meeting

    Sent to <Help@TedNugent.com> Tues 4/3/2011
    If there is any reply, I will let you know.

    Bob

    --------
    Thank you Uncle Ted - But...
    A View from the NRA Meeting and Convention

    My wife Cathy and I enjoyed your rousing presentation at the NRA Experience on Sunday. As you say, if you see a problem - Fix It. As an engineer, I usually do that and now I see a problem that needs addressing.

    You spoke about Open Carry of firearms and obviously did not support that practice. I do not remember the precise words you used to describe that activity or those who undertook it, but they were sharp words.

    Obviously if one open carries and some criminals decide to attack, and if they are going to shoot someone, the first target they might shoot are the open carriers. Let me explain why I am a sometime open carrier.

    1) I, and some other folks, can not or do not want to apply for a concealed carry permission slip. It is a point of personal freedom I am sure you might understand. It sometimes revolves around the background check and fingerprinting of the applicant, as if he were the criminal. Many folks have been fingerprinted in the past as part of other activities they have taken part in. They have given up that part of privacy and have nothing to loose. Others have not and decline to surrender this one remaining piece or personal information. Fortunately, Wyoming, our present part time home and soon to be our full time home, has adopted Constitutional Carry, the fourth state to do so. Constitutional Carry is on a trend as was Concealed Carry a decade or two ago.

    2) Open Carry is sometimes done for “Educational” purposes and not just self defense. Yesterday I read an essay from a peace officer about folks who open carry to protest. I believe that education is the term that is more correct than protest in most of these cases. Never the less, some folks get confrontational as in a protest. Fortunately that peace officer acknowledged and strongly supported the Constitutional right to protest or demonstrate by legally open carrying. I direct you to an Open Carry activity from last Independence Day, the Walk In The Park, at; <http://www.mcsm.org/walkinpark.pdf> and <http://www.mcsm.org/walkinpark2.pdf> The first is the educational flyer that was used and the second is a travel log description of the event.

    In closing, if you see something wrong, fix it. You can start by pointing out the problem, strongly if necessary, but then offer corrective recommendations. We know that open carry makes us a target. That is something we freely commit ourselves to, without reservation, and plan to counter an attack, if and when needed. We know that there are others around us openly or discretely carrying. It would amaze you how few people notice an openly carried firearm and how heightened it makes the carrier, more aware of his surroundings. See the second above PDF title about the dinner at Billy’s Burgers.

    If you care to discuss this at any time, let me know. It could provide a new point of view or even new material for your presentations. BTW, the American Militia essays at; <http://www.mcsm.org/ammilitia01.html> might also be interesting to you.

    Your brother in freedom.

    Bob Culver, MCSM

  2. #2
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    If the NRA successfully promoted the open carry of firearms, people would see that they're just tools. "Gun Control" could literally die, and the NRA as a lobby would have to be significantly downsized. When firearms are carried in a concealed manner, we give in to the sentiment that they are dirty, scary objects that only kooks carry around.

    I have to confess that while OC is not the ultimate solution to all potential defensive encounters, I don't understand the preference to conceal. Open carry is about stopping violence before it happens. CC is about reacting to it.

    The reason OC is denigrated is that we are taught it is socially unacceptable to wear a firearm. If you change the perception to it being a nifty piece of man-jewelry, then Sarah Brady would have to find a new line of work. So would many LEOs.
    Last edited by 77zach; 05-05-2011 at 10:48 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Nice letter, Bob.

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    The Day I’ll Join The NRA – An Open Letter To Ted Nugent
    By Aaron Zelman

    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/05/03/o...to-ted-nugent/

    2. When the NRA aggressively presses to abolish all concealed carry permit laws.
    3. When the NRA calls for the complete and unconditional disbanding of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE).

  5. #5
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    I think that the NRA is committed to the status quo. They want to keep permitted carry (and get it back where it has been lost) and to keep an enforcement structure. They don't really want a full-blown RKBA. They'd lose their raison-d'etre.

    I read a book, decades ago, whose ultimate premise was that, regardless of the reason for its creation, the primary purpose of every system becomes its own continued existence. The NRA is no exception.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    After some recent BS with the NRA I've been reading about, stuff on NRA (A)WOL, especially with what the NRA did to OC in FL this year, I'm not sure I'll be re-upping my membership this winter... but then again, I HAVE to be a member to be a member at my shooting range...FUUUUUUU
    Last edited by Schlitz; 06-02-2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason: accidently, I placed "membershit" where membership is lol, thought that was funny.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I think that the NRA is committed to the status quo. They want to keep permitted carry (and get it back where it has been lost) and to keep an enforcement structure. They don't really want a full-blown RKBA. They'd lose their raison-d'etre.

    I read a book, decades ago, whose ultimate premise was that, regardless of the reason for its creation, the primary purpose of every system becomes its own continued existence. The NRA is no exception.
    It's the Iron Rule of Bureaucracy. Those who work to continue the existence of the bureaucracy always wind up in positions of leadership. From that point on, the bureaucracy works toward perpetuation rather than to pursue the goals for which it was created.

  8. #8
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    I bumped into that very problem in an organization the day before yesterday. When you see an organization move from its original purpose to self-maintenance, it's time to move on. The folks heavily involved in that maintenance don't see it, and get really touchy when it is pointed out to them.

    *sigh*

  9. #9
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    When was this NRA event. I want to see some video coverage of Ted Nugnet not supporting open carry!!!
    This is really disturbing!
    Dates or video please.

  10. #10
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    Listen to Uncle Ted...

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    When was this NRA event. I want to see some video coverage of Ted Nugnet not supporting open carry!!!
    This is really disturbing!
    Dates or video please.
    Yes! Video please. I want to hear what he had to say.

    ^
    but we must see it for what it still is: an un-Constitutional infringement on our G-d* given right to self defense
    Really? You can't write, "GOD?"
    (*Out of respect, observant Jews do not write out the name of the Almighty in secular texts.)
    Isn't GOD a title? Doesn't every religion have a GOD? God is not a name. It is a title. Jehovah is a name... Jesus is a name... Just saying... It kind of irks me when people don't know the difference. Obama's name is not PRESIDENT, that's his title...
    Last edited by Schlitz; 06-02-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Yes! Video please. I want to hear what he had to say.


    ^

    Really? You can't write, "GOD?"

    Isn't GOD a title? Doesn't every religion have a GOD? God is not a name. It is a title. Jehovah is a name... Jesus is a name... Just saying... It kind of irks me when people don't know the difference. Obama's name is not PRESIDENT, that's his title...
    I don't get the not-writing-God thing either. When they write G-d, I see zero distinction from writing God. They know what they mean; we know what they mean; God knows what they mean. It is an absolute synonym, exactly equivalent, so they, in essence, have done precisely what they are trying to avoid doing.

    Not that I worry about it. I have many Jews in my family and know a little more about the practice of that religion than many other Christians do. Its full of these small distinctions that carry great import due abstract meanings of actions. By taking some small action, it brings to mind some much greater ideal. I guess as long as the act of writing G-d increases the reverence the writer feels, the act becomes significant to him, even if not to the reader.

    Oh, BTW, your link gives me a "Not found." Maybe it's my computer and not your link.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/05/03/o...to-ted-nugent/
    Link.

    I just don't see what G-d works better than God because, like I said, God is not God's name....Every religion has some God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/05/03/o...to-ted-nugent/
    Link.

    I just don't see what G-d works better than God because, like I said, God is not God's name....Every religion has some God.
    I just read that letter in ammoland, it was great. I have talked with a fellow named Curby from JPFO before. All I need to say about them is God bless em. Their really a great group.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    The Day I’ll Join The NRA – An Open Letter To Ted Nugent
    By Aaron Zelman

    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/05/03/o...to-ted-nugent/

    2. When the NRA aggressively presses to abolish all concealed carry permit laws.
    Let us PLEASE not burn the bridges behind us before we reach the terra firma of Constitutional Carry.

    Thanks.

    3. When the NRA calls for the complete and unconditional disbanding of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE).
    That would be a step in the right direction.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  16. #16
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    My View on Open Carry

    Author: Nick Smith

    I would appreciate if you weren't 'opposed' to open carry, but rather indifferent to the practice. Because something is not customary does not make it wrong. I believe, in the sense open carry has become less customary, it has been gun owners who have capitulated to the anti gun movement. We have been asked to hide our firearms. We have been asked to behave as criminals have behaved in the concealed carry of our firearms.

    "It does scare some people"

    Everyday I get up and drive in Seattle-Tacoma traffic and there are times it scares me and other drivers. However, it is not the vehicle that scares me or others it is the behavior of the driver of that vehicle. I think you will find that it is the behavior of an individual that chooses to open carry that scares others not the firearm. I have met some who concealed carry whose behavior scares me and others. I am sure that you have met people whose behavior scares you on a regular basis. In the state of Washington approximately 1 in 20 are carrying a concealed firearm. Wouldn't you rather see the firearm on a person whose behavior is poor and inappropriate then guess which of those 20 people is the one?

    For the last couple of years I have carried openly and I will say that 95% of the people in public do not see my firearm. Why? Because I am polite, courteous, and professional. Furthermore, my behavior invokes trust, not fear in others. I go about my business as though I was concealed. I carry openly for that small percent that do ask and are genuinely curious about the practice and then I am willing to educate and be a positive face to gun owners.

    I have chosen to come out of the closet and be transparent in my behavior and actions. I cannot be a jerk to the clerk at the grocery store. I cannot be inconsiderate to the next person getting on the bus or elevator. I have chosen to be open and honest by carrying my firearm openly. I have chosen to engage in a movement to normalize the practice. I have chosen to educate others and also to correct the behavior of others who open carry whose behavior is not polite, courteous, professional and kind. It is a burden that I actively engage.
    Live Free or Die!

  17. #17
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    Agree 100000%it amazes me that so many people blindly give money to the NRA and they honestly think they are going to protect their rights.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  18. #18
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    The NRA works very hard and spends a lot of money to protect the privilege.

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    A member on another gun forum brought up some good questions


    "Well JPFO Speaks some sense here.

    BTW anyone know if the Allegation about Regan wanting to dismantle the BATF was opposed by the NRA?
    I've heard allegations that the NRA had a hand in the 1934 and 1968 gun laws as well, Reportedly such is admitted in a 1968 American Rifleman issue in response to complaints the NRA never supports gun laws.

    JPFO Is also alleging they had a hand in the writing.. I have'nt seen any hard proof though, It was well before I was born and I don't know anyone with a copy of AR that far back.

    Meh, Anyway JPFO puts out some interesting stuff anyone who has'nt watched No gun's for African American's Check it out."
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  20. #20
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Ted speaking how someone could take your gun or make you a target?!?!?!

    This is the guy that is so into guns if he was just wearing briefs you would still wonder if he had one hidden somewhere. Heck you see Ted would you even bother to see if he was concealed? It would just seem he had one somewhere.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    NRA Instructor Training and Handgun Training have become inextricably intertwined with many state's CC qualification training in one way or another. These NRA training programs are a nice little revenue stream for the NRA, and NRA-certified instructors have invested a lot of their own time and money to get those certifications.

    NRA is a big supporter of licensed CC because it puts money in their coffers, and in the pockets of some of their high-dollar members.

    In other words, follow the money...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elitist CCer
    "Criminals are cowards, they don't want to deal with someone who has a gun. They want soft targets. My hidden gun makes me look like a soft target, but lets ignore that. Maybe I'll get to whip it out after Bad Things are already happening?"

    "Criminals will engage the hardest target they can find, first. The person with the gun that can be seen is the person they will go after. An ounce of cure is worth, er, uh, wait a minute, how does that saying go again?"
    Things that make you go "Hmmmmm...."

    Why would anyone abandon their own logic to subvert a Right? Ego, Money, whatever. The root is deeper.

    Who hacks at the branches when they can strike the root? Those who prune for a living.
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-09-2011 at 04:37 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  23. #23
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    Everyone should remember the Bill Akins case that the NRA did nothing on.

    Bill Akin invented the Akin's accelerator which was a bump fire stock for the Ruger 10/22.
    At 1st the ATF approved it, It was an immediate success and business took off.

    The AA went into full production.. about 2 years (iirc) into it the ATF did another test on the AA, why they did another test im not sure.

    Anyway this time around they denied it, They claim was the 1st test the product did not work. the 2nd test done a few years later it did.. They accused Bill of sending them a prototype or otherwise flawed unit.

    The stock worked via a spring. The ATF got a court order for bill's customer list as well as all springs in inventory.

    Without the springs the stocks was worthless.

    The ATF also sent out letters to everyone on the customer list demanding they send in the springs from their stocks and sign an affidavit that they would not replace them to make the stocks functional again.

    Bill went to the NRA for help as he did not have the money to fight the ATF, He was a member for about 30 years (IIRC), They declined and so Bill was forced to comply. He was left with about 1ml dollars in useless product, Customers who complied with the ATF was left with a useless stock.

    The ATF did not compensate customers nor Bill. The stocks cost about 1k dollars iirc, While customers might be out 1000 dollars Bill had spent 10 years perfecting the product and was ruined financially.

    He was secure in thinking his ATF approval letter was a green light, Only to have them reverse 2 years later ruining his business without compensation.

    At least thats the story in a nutshell, google Bill Akin or Akin's accelerator if you want to read more...........Joe Sixpack
    Last edited by zack991; 06-10-2011 at 05:05 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The NRA works very hard and spends a lot of money to protect the privilege.
    If I misunderstand forgive me, but its a God Given right not a privilege. Now to the NRA playing both sides of the coin while claiming they fight hard against these laws. Yet the truth is they help work with the groups like "Brady": to input many of the laws and say they are compromising so we don't loose all of our "rights".


    The NRA has nasty habit of playing both sides of the the debate way to often. NRA published an article by their magazine's Associate Editor entitled "WHERE THE NRA STANDS ON GUN LEGISLATION" — elaborating at length about NRA's longstanding support for a wide variety of gun controls that included gun and gunowner registration, waiting periods, age restrictions, licenses for carrying a firearm or having a firearm in your vehicle, increased penalties for violating gun laws, regulating ammunition and more.

    BEGIN TEXT OF PAGES 22 AND 23 OF NRA'S
    AMERICAN RIFLEMAN MAGAZINE, MARCH 1968 EDITION
    NOTE: This article has been out of print for decades and is very hard to find, so we include the full text. This information is distributed free of charge, is not being used for profit and is strictly for educational purposes. Scanned images of this article can be accessed by clicking the following links: Page 22 (319K), Page 23 (275K). (In fact, if you'd like, you can see a scanned image of the color cover of the magazine where this gun control braggadocio was published.)

    page 22
    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/image...3-1968_p22.jpg

    page23
    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/image...3-1968_p23.jpg


    "The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts." —American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22

    "The NRA supported the original 'Dodd Bill' to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun." (P. 22)

    That's one form of registration.

    "In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns." (P. 22)

    "The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol or revolver ammunition..." (P. 22)

    That's an extension of one form of registration to all types of guns not already under registration schemes at the time.

    In order to "put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts," NRA management also pressed the federal government, in 1968, to:

    "Regulate the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:

    "A. requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;"

    That's a registration list.

    "B. providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;"

    That's another registration mechanism.

    "C. requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;"

    Wait a week to exercise your inalienable rights.

    "D. prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;"

    That is called Age Discrimination. In essence, in 1968, the NRA was saying "You can go die over in Vietnam for your country at age 18, but you can't sell a constitutionally protected item to your own neighbors for three more years."

    "E. providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce;"

    "Carrier" includes the U.S. Postal Service — another ripe opportunity for the federal government to collect names of gun buyers.

    "F. increasing penalties for violation." (P. 22-23)

    What do you think America's Founders would say about the NRA calling for "increasing penalties for violation" of unconstitutional gun laws?

    At least as early as 1930, the NRA supported:

    "...requir[ing] the purchaser of a pistol to give information about himself which is submitted by the seller to local police authorities..."

    Unless someone has evidence to prove that the NRA lied to its membership in its premier magazine, let the record show that the NRA got behind the first unconstitutional federal gun law in America and then bragged about having done so, many years later — decades after the law had been continually used to violate the rights of untold numbers of American citizens, including, surely, their own members.



    Now I will be out of town for the weekend so I will get back to any questions on Monday.
    Last edited by zack991; 06-10-2011 at 09:27 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    If I misunderstand forgive me, but its a God Given right not a privilege...
    Um...duh...

    I know that. I posted exactly what I meant. The NRA works very hard at protecting the privilege. That is one reason that I don't belong.

    Where is that head-shaking smiley??

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