Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: hb517

  1. #1
    Regular Member Willm3053's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    45

    hb517

    on the HOUSE FLOOR NOW!
    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison
    An armed society is a polite society. – Robert A. Heinlein
    Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them. – Walter Mondale

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
    Posts
    1,413
    With an amendment from Rep Dorworth to bastardize the bill into the same text as the Senate version:

    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/989561/HTML

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,567

    Angry

    It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. If you're carrying in a concealed manner, how does one openly display a firearm? And what is the definition of angry. Is it against the law to be angry? THIS IS SO BROAD. I can't believe something like this is actually beign made by our freaking law makers. This is just so crazy. It's not that I'm mad that OC is taken out (which I am), but it's the fact that this is so impossible to measure. How do you measure if someone is angry or not? Wtf?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Willm3053's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    45
    When I clicked back to the channel, I heard it was going to a 3rd reading, is that correct?
    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison
    An armed society is a polite society. – Robert A. Heinlein
    Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them. – Walter Mondale

  5. #5
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    With an amendment from Rep Dorworth to bastardize the bill into the same text as the Senate version:

    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/989561/HTML
    ...and another amendment to allow certain public officials with a CWFL to carry in gubmint meetings (from Patronis).

  6. #6
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    ...and another amendment to allow certain public officials with a CWFL to carry in gubmint meetings (from Patronis).
    Not adopted I assume? If it were, we could kill this demon spawn of a bill.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  7. #7
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Not adopted I assume? If it were, we could kill this demon spawn of a bill.
    Dunno, 'zach. I quit following things yesterday morning when the amendment was offered.

  8. #8
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    FL/NC
    Posts
    156
    Ok this is new language and a new amendment. This is a different read on things. They seemed to have removed some of the ambiguous language. This may be interesting. It says you can briefly openly display a firearm as long as your intention is to carry it concealed. The “briefly” is questionable but it is not near as ambiguous as accidentally or inadvertently. Am I reading something wrong? So If I'm getting into my truck and I take my jacket off before I get in and my weapon becomes visible I am not in violation. Before if I took my coat off in such a manner then the exposure was not accidental or inadvertent and I was subject to arrest. This is interesting..

    1) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/688734/HTML New language
    2) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/322294/HTML Old language

    New Language:
    It
    12 is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to
    13 carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who
    14 is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly
    15 and openly display the firearm
    to the ordinary sight of another
    16 person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an
    17 angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

    Old Lanquage:
    It
    11 shall not be a violation of this section for a person who is
    12 licensed to carry a concealed firearm, and who is lawfully
    13 carrying it in a concealed manner, to accidentally or
    14 inadvertently display the firearm to the ordinary sight of
    15 another person so long as the firearm is not displayed in a
    16 rude, angry, or threatening manner.
    Last edited by firedog; 05-03-2011 at 03:07 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  9. #9
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Ok this is new language and a new amendment. This is a different read on things. They seemed to have removed some of the ambiguous language. This may be interesting. It says you can briefly openly display a firearm as long as your intention is to carry it concealed. The “briefly” is questionable but it is not near as ambiguous as accidentally or inadvertently. Am I reading something wrong? So If I'm getting into my truck and I take my jacket off before I get in and my weapon becomes visible I am not in violation. Before if I took my coat off in such a manner then the exposure was not accidental or inadvertent and I was subject to arrest. This is interesting..

    1) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/688734/HTML New language
    2) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/322294/HTML Old language

    New Language:
    It
    12 is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to
    13 carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who
    14 is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly
    15 and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another
    16 person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an
    17 angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

    Old Lanquage:
    It
    11 shall not be a violation of this section for a person who is
    12 licensed to carry a concealed firearm, and who is lawfully
    13 carrying it in a concealed manner, to accidentally or
    14 inadvertently display the firearm to the ordinary sight of
    15 another person so long as the firearm is not displayed in a
    16 rude, angry, or threatening manner.
    I think you're reading it correctly. It is the same verbiage that is in SB234. Doesn't really matter about taking your coat off at your car though...still can't open carry in your vehicle.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Ok this is new language and a new amendment. This is a different read on things. They seemed to have removed some of the ambiguous language. This may be interesting. It says you can briefly openly display a firearm as long as your intention is to carry it concealed. The “briefly” is questionable but it is not near as ambiguous as accidentally or inadvertently. Am I reading something wrong? So If I'm getting into my truck and I take my jacket off before I get in and my weapon becomes visible I am not in violation. Before if I took my coat off in such a manner then the exposure was not accidental or inadvertent and I was subject to arrest. This is interesting..

    1) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/688734/HTML New language
    2) http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...nt/322294/HTML Old language

    New Language:
    It
    12 is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to
    13 carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who
    14 is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly
    15 and openly display the firearm
    to the ordinary sight of another
    16 person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an
    17 angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

    Old Lanquage:
    It
    11 shall not be a violation of this section for a person who is
    12 licensed to carry a concealed firearm, and who is lawfully
    13 carrying it in a concealed manner, to accidentally or
    14 inadvertently display the firearm to the ordinary sight of
    15 another person so long as the firearm is not displayed in a
    16 rude, angry, or threatening manner.
    Again, uninformed....

    This happened back on the 27th IN THE SENATE...perhaps you have not been paying attention?
    Last edited by brboyer; 05-03-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Keep in mind. Folks in those seats can actually try to debate what the meaning of the word "is" is.

  12. #12
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    FL/NC
    Posts
    156
    Boyer, KMA dude. You are ignored so I have no idea what your saying. I can't imagine its anything nice towards me so you don't need to waste you time if it is.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Boyer, KMA dude. You are ignored so I have no idea what your saying. I can't imagine its anything nice towards me so you don't need to waste you time if it is.
    I'm crushed!

    If you would not open your mouth and spew uninformed information, that some other less informed individual might taker to heart, I, and others, would not have to continually come and correct you.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Boyer, KMA dude. You are ignored so I have no idea what your saying. I can't imagine its anything nice towards me so you don't need to waste you time if it is.
    He was pointing out that the new language is a week old.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    FL/NC
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    He was pointing out that the new language is a week old.
    Yea, that's what Crisafulli told me the other day and that they were changing it to that before it came to the house.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Willm3053's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    45
    New or Old it's still garbage, lets just let it ride, hopefully Gov. Scott has some kind of common sense and vetos this bill. Let our voices and peaceful demonstrations show them in Tallahassee that we mean business, don't Eff with our rights, YOU WILL BE VOTED OUT, don't get comfy on your chair.
    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison
    An armed society is a polite society. – Robert A. Heinlein
    Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them. – Walter Mondale

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    I'm crushed!

    If you would not open your mouth and spew uninformed information, that some other less informed individual might taker to heart, I, and others, would not have to continually come and correct you.
    "uninformed "
    Here we go again. For the last time. Inform us, O Gatekeeper of All-Knowing Knowledge and Wisdom, inform we feeble-minded masses...

































    ....ya, somehow I didnt think you could, either.


  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    He was pointing out that the new language is a week old.
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "uninformed "
    Here we go again. For the last time. Inform us, O Gatekeeper of All-Knowing Knowledge and Wisdom, inform we feeble-minded masses...
    ...ya, somehow I didnt think you could, either.

    This.

  19. #19
    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lutz, FL
    Posts
    61
    Hmmm. I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like if they strike out the words "briefly and" we'd be golden!

    That being the case, I think we should let the amendment stand as is. Then next year rather than trying to pass some complicated language, let's just get them to strike out those two words.
    Last edited by RRobaldo; 05-03-2011 at 03:41 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Why am I even wasting anytime arguing with this troll?
    Henceforth ignored. All future posts... pointless.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Why am I even wasting anytime arguing with this troll?
    Henceforth ignored. All future posts... pointless.
    Good question....how about just responding to the issues?

    Henceforth ignored. All future posts... pointless.
    AKA - I'm not prepared to actually discuss the facts, so I'll just stick my head in the sand!

  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    Hmmm. I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like if they strike out the words "briefly and" we'd be golden!

    That being the case, I think we should let the amendment stand as is. Then next year rather than trying to pass some complicated language, let's just get them to strike out those two words.
    Indeed
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    Hmmm. I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like if they strike out the words "briefly and" we'd be golden!

    That being the case, I think we should let the amendment stand as is. Then next year rather than trying to pass some complicated language, let's just get them to strike out those two words.
    They won't, but yes that is purely subjective...could be seconds, minutes, hours....hence one of the big issues withthe language.

  24. #24
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    FL/NC
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    Hmmm. I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like if they strike out the words "briefly and" we'd be golden!

    That being the case, I think we should let the amendment stand as is. Then next year rather than trying to pass some complicated language, let's just get them to strike out those two words.
    That's what I was thinking.. I failed to explain that before the troll started pounding on me again and pointing out how stupid I am. I wish he would just go back the floridaconcealedcarry.org and continue to preach his expertise and his belittlement of participants over there.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    They won't, but yes that is purely subjective...could be seconds, minutes, hours....hence one of the big issues withthe language.
    Herein is the 180 Evers and Hammer did. They correctly pointed out that the only way to accomplish their objective was to legalize open carry for license holders. They went back on that and now have inadvertently but hopefully "briefly" sabotaged our future efforts.
    Last edited by 77zach; 05-03-2011 at 03:56 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •