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Thread: Woman arrested for carrying concealed

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Woman arrested for carrying concealed

    Woman arrested for allegedly carrying concealed, loaded handgun


    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...cc4c03286.html

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    As the students at my recent Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class will tell you, in Utah that arrest would have been a non-event as Utah's Castle Doctrine extends to your vehicle. You can carry open or concealed, loaded or unloaded in your vehicle in Utah.
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    As the students at my recent Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class will tell you, in Utah that arrest would have been a non-event as Utah's Castle Doctrine extends to your vehicle. You can carry open or concealed, loaded or unloaded in your vehicle in Utah.
    As it should also be in Wisconsin.... Hopefully in time....

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    As the students at my recent Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class will tell you, in Utah that arrest would have been a non-event as Utah's Castle Doctrine extends to your vehicle. You can carry open or concealed, loaded or unloaded in your vehicle in Utah.
    I copied that article into an email to my Senator and Representative and asked why this is STILL a crime in WI?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    "Officers found the woman in the parked car and a loaded handgun in her purse," said police spokesman Joel DeSpain. "The gun's magazine also was loaded and there was another fully-loaded magazine in her purse."
    So the only thing that was not loaded was the woman in the car?

    How under Wisconsin law is a handgun defined as being loaded, as opposed to being unloaded?

    Is there a law against having cartridges in the magazine if the magazine is in your purse?

    Inquiring minds hurt from banging against brick walls.

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So the only thing that was not loaded was the woman in the car?

    How under Wisconsin law is a handgun defined as being loaded, as opposed to being unloaded?

    Is there a law against having cartridges in the magazine if the magazine is in your purse?

    Inquiring minds hurt from banging against brick walls.

    stay safe.
    WI law says that a firearm has to be unloaded, encased to be in a vehicle. Unloaded is defined as no cartridges in the firearm at all. The magazine can have cartridges in it as long as the magazine is not in the firearm.

    So... they didn't charge her (it seems) with a loaded forearm in a car (an infraction that is not criminal, like a speeding ticket). She is charged with concealed, a misdemeanor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Is there a law against having cartridges in the magazine if the magazine is in your purse?
    Nope we can have all the loaded magazines anywhere we want. We can fill a car with them and as long as our view isn't obstructed, we're good to go.

    I'd have to look it up but as far as a semi-auto is concerned, no round in the chamber and no rounds in the magazine is unloaded. I believe it says no loaded magazine inserted or attached to the firearm.

    The extra magazine comment was purely fear mongering.

    Although we don't have any laws involving loaded magazines, I do believe one of our members wasn't allowed to carry his into a court house.

    If Dougy was here he would know for certain if WI law mentioned loaded magazines, I miss Doug

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    Interesting to read that she was "tentatively charged" with carrying a concealed weapon. Also interesting that she was not charged with unlawful vehicle transport of a firearm instead. Some interesting questions arrive. If she is formally charged with concealment then the issue of loaded v unloaded becomes moot because the WSC has ruled that concealment applies loaded or unloaded. The only factors relevant to concealment is knowledge, within reach and out of view. All conditions must be present to prove concealment. If a "citizen" noticed the firearm and reported it, I would think "out of view" will be hard to prove. However the issue of loaded is a factor in vehicle transport. Then if vehicle transport of an improperly cased weapon prevails as the final charge, the issue of encasement comes up. There are many purses available that are intended to carry a firearm. So does the fact the firearm was in a purse indicate it was a legitimate encasement and if so does that negate the fact it was concealed, therefore the only fault was the fact the firearm was loaded while in a vehicle? A smart lawyer could have a field day with this one.

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    Interesting

    "According to a police news release, a citizen spotted a gun being displayed inside a car."

    Let's assume that the "citizen" (a) exists and (b) was credible. What RAS did the officers have? 941.23 - nope, the citizen saw the weapon, therefore it wasn't concealed. 167.31? - perhaps, although there was nothing to suggest that the weapon was loaded, encasement may be an issue, maybe not. "Tentative" suggest they know they can't win on concealed carry but need to throw something on the table until they can get their story straight. Look for "Disorderly Conduct" coming to a court near you. As soon as they can convince the witness how upset/frightened/worried/concerned/out of sorts/irritated/scared he/she was.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    The Madison PD press release suggests there were a number of people in the car passing the gun around.

    Whether it was her gun is uncertain, but it was in her purse. Just speculation, but maybe it would have been a bigger deal if one of her companions was found in possession of a firearm?
    Last edited by Shotgun; 05-03-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    "According to a police news release, a citizen spotted a gun being displayed inside a car."

    Let's assume that the "citizen" (a) exists and (b) was credible. What RAS did the officers have? 941.23 - nope, the citizen saw the weapon, therefore it wasn't concealed. 167.31? - perhaps, although there was nothing to suggest that the weapon was loaded, encasement may be an issue, maybe not. "Tentative" suggest they know they can't win on concealed carry but need to throw something on the table until they can get their story straight. Look for "Disorderly Conduct" coming to a court near you. As soon as they can convince the witness how upset/frightened/worried/concerned/out of sorts/irritated/scared he/she was.
    My thoughts exactly. I believe that the cop who discovered the concealed weapon had no RAS for a stop, ergo it's fruit off the poisoned tree... at least with what information we have.

    Secondly, I think it's real chickenchit that a "citizen" would call the police when they saw a weapon. I love Wisconsin but in AZ where I moved from, this would be a non-issue....there wouldn't have even been a call to the police. WI laws violate the Constitution and have created too many chickenchit people.... like the woman who called on our intrepid Madison 5.
    Last edited by 1FASTC4; 05-03-2011 at 11:22 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Thanks for the legal education. Seems from later coomments that the handgun was highly visible when the cops were contacted, but not so much by the time they arrived.

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092
    ...in Utah that arrest would have been a non-event as Utah's Castle Doctrine extends to your vehicle. You can carry open or concealed, loaded or unloaded in your vehicle in Utah.
    Keep up that bragging & you'll have a bunch of us camping with you until we can find jobs & houses out there!
    Surely faster & easier than getting WI to make its laws sensible.
    (One I'd really like to have here is the "black-striped LEO-attitude-adjustment card".)
    ((... Though that would take us having a permit system, wouldn't it?))
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1FASTC4 View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I believe that the cop who discovered the concealed weapon had no RAS for a stop, ergo it's fruit off the poisoned tree... at least with what information we have.

    Secondly, I think it's real chickenchit that a "citizen" would call the police when they saw a weapon. I love Wisconsin but in AZ where I moved from, this would be a non-issue....there wouldn't have even been a call to the police. WI laws violate the Constitution and have created too many chickenchit people.... like the woman who called on our intrepid Madison 5.
    Wisconsin residents have been brainwashed into thinking that only Cops carry firearms for the last 150 years because the laws for so many years said that if you carry a gun your going to jail. Open carry is legal yet you will never see LE educating the public that it is indeed legal.
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