• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Michigan State Police to take your blood pressure/pulse at stops

PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
petoskeynews.com said:
Michigan police aim to find drug-impaired drivers

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Michigan's police agencies are working to boost the number of officers trained in catching motorists driving under the influence of drugs — drivers state police say are no less a threat than drunken drivers.

The Lansing State Journal reports that police agencies facing a recent rise in traffic fatalities involving drug use began an effort last week to greatly expand the number of officers statewide trained in spotting drug-impaired motorists.

Alcohol-impaired drivers often can be detected with a quick preliminary breath test, but drug-impaired drivers are much harder to spot.

Determining whether suspected drug-impaired motorists are actually under the influence can take an hour or more of assessing a suspected motorist and include even taking a suspect's pulse and blood pressure at the roadside.
Click to expand...

http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/pn...drugimpaired-drivers-20110501,0,1362251.story
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Dont suppose anybody brought up the fact that some people drive better on pot?

This war is doing exactly as I predicted it would a few years ago. It is the "gateway" for fascism and socialism.
 
Last edited:
TheQ

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
There is no law requiring your consent to a BP test. They can't yank your license or charge you with a crime nor give you a ticket if you refuse. The answer here is simple, like all other requests for search. Refuse.


It disgusts me they are doing this...

ETA: Thanks for the post, PD.
 
W

warrior1978

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
64
Location
, ,
TheQ said:
There is no law requiring your consent to a BP test. They can't yank your license or charge you with a crime nor give you a ticket if you refuse. The answer here is simple, like all other requests for search. Refuse.


It disgusts me they are doing this...

ETA: Thanks for the post, PD.
Click to expand...

You are correct, just like Standard Field Sobriety tests, a BP test is not required. However, if you are being asked to take a BP test, the officer has probably already decided that it is possible to likely that you are under the influence of a controlled substance. A refusal is documented in the report and more than likely you go to jail because the officer has Probable Cause to believe you are Operating Under the Influence of Drugs.

At the jail or hospital you will be asked to submit to a blood test. Since your Driver's License includes implied consent, you either agree or your license is automatically suspended. Then the officer obtains a search warrant for your blood and gets the results back a few days from now.

PC is a simple as erratic driving, add constricted pupils, red/glossy eyes, unsteady on your feet, slurred speach etc etc and there is more than enough PC for an OUID arrest.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
My thought is that it would not be much of a "leap" to apply this to other areas - operating a boat or snowmobile or maybe even just carrying a firearm. I know I have not heard of anyone having to take a "breathalyzer test" while carrying, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
 
W

warrior1978

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
64
Location
, ,
PDinDetroit said:
My thought is that it would not be much of a "leap" to apply this to other areas - operating a boat or snowmobile or maybe even just carrying a firearm. I know I have not heard of anyone having to take a "breathalyzer test" while carrying, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Click to expand...

At least 9 CPLs last year revoked for carrying under the influence; not all counties reported statistics however. I'm sure most involved a PBT and later a datamaster or blood sample at the jail. I believe implied consent goes along with a CPL and there are penalties if you fail to provide a sample. If you are open carrying and not carrying under a CPL, no implied consent so there are no penalties if you fail to provide a sample. Again, if the officer has PC, off you go to jail and a search warrant obtained for blood.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2009-10_CPL_Annual_Report_343621_7.pdf
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
stainless1911 said:
28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.
Click to expand...
When carryng concealed.

Same applies to a DL. But you don't have to submit unless you are engaged in the act that the license allows. For example if I'm not driving and I have a DL do I have to submit to a BAC test?
 
Last edited:
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
warrior1978 said:
At least 9 CPLs last year revoked for carrying under the influence; not all counties reported statistics however. I'm sure most involved a PBT and later a datamaster or blood sample at the jail. I believe implied consent goes along with a CPL and there are penalties if you fail to provide a sample. If you are open carrying and not carrying under a CPL, no implied consent so there are no penalties if you fail to provide a sample. Again, if the officer has PC, off you go to jail and a search warrant obtained for blood.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2009-10_CPL_Annual_Report_343621_7.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks, well aware of the law and these reports.

My point was simply "I had not heard of anyone having to undergo it". 9 persons out of a approximately 250K CPL Holders means that the likelihood of hearing about someone undergoing it is pretty low - thanks for backing up my statement.

To me, this probably means that the likelihood of someone undergoing Blood Pressure and/or Pulse Readings while carrying under the authority of a CPL is probably pretty low as well.

Now, would that same law for CPL Implied Consent possibly apply to Blood Pressure and/or Pulse Readings? By what MCL could it possibly apply to persons Open Carrying?
 
W

warrior1978

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
64
Location
, ,
PDinDetroit said:
Thanks, well aware of the law and these reports.

My point was simply "I had not heard of anyone having to undergo it". 9 persons out of a approximately 250K CPL Holders means that the likelihood of hearing about someone undergoing it is pretty low - thanks for backing up my statement.

To me, this probably means that the likelihood of someone undergoing Blood Pressure and/or Pulse Readings while carrying under the authority of a CPL is probably pretty low as well.

Now, would that same law for CPL Implied Consent possibly apply to Blood Pressure and/or Pulse Readings? By what MCL could it possibly apply to persons Open Carrying?
Click to expand...

No. Implied consent to "chemical analysis" applies whenever we're talking about driving a car, boat, snowmobile, ATV OR carrying a firearm under a CPL. Applied consent goes for a PBT and blood/breath at the jail. Implied consent does not mean you have to take Field Sobrieties Tests or a blood pressure/pulse reading. These tests are voluntary.
 
M

mastiff69

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States
Yes sir: Sorry to have to stop you,,,,
Sir while we were doing our usual stop, and our exam of you we noticed that you seem to have quite a few Police business cards in your prostate check, sorry to have taken so much of your time butt it was fun Right ?
 
FLEMTP

FLEMTP

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
36
Location
Charlotte, NC, USA
this is asking for trouble... there are SO many variables that effect blood pressure, such as blood pressure medications... mild to moderate dehydration...various disease processes...etc.. and my issue is, if an officer is trained to check your blood pressure and pulse rate.. fine.. but interpreting the results in the face of the above mentioned variables is something that I'd be willing to bet they wouldnt be trained in.. let alone understand.

You really want to confuse a leo .. after he checks your BP.. make sure you tell him
"sir... im on 2 beta blockers and an ace inhibitor, as well as a potassium stripping loop diuretic..." and watch his head spin when he realizes he has NO idea what that may or may not do to a blood pressure reading...

Cops are cops.. not paramedics.. or other medical trained professionals. Leave this stuff to them.

One other thought..

if a cop takes your blood pressure.. but does not give it back.. can he be charged with larceny ? hahaha
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Venator said:
When carryng concealed.
Click to expand...

Good call, thanks.

I know one thing is for sure, if I get pulled over, Im going to be under a lot of stress, the fine for an average ticket at my income level is simply devastating. It means that I might not be driving for several months, I will very likely lose my DL for non payment, and my blood pressure is going to reflect that.
 
J

jmlefler

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Southwest, Michigan, USA
IANAL; my understanding is that the Field Sobriety Tests are voluntary, and the refusal of the PBT is a CIVIL infraction that involves a fine, not points or has any affect on your DL.

1. It is impossible to pass the Field Sobriety Tests - that aren't designed to help you in any way, just a mechanism for collecting more evidence against you in trial.
2. The PBT is inadmissible other than to establish probable cause for your arrest.

The solution? Don't drink and then drive.

Carry On
 
W

warrior1978

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
64
Location
, ,
jmlefler said:
IANAL; my understanding is that the Field Sobriety Tests are voluntary, and the refusal of the PBT is a CIVIL infraction that involves a fine, not points or has any affect on your DL.

1. It is impossible to pass the Field Sobriety Tests - that aren't designed to help you in any way, just a mechanism for collecting more evidence against you in trial.
2. The PBT is inadmissible other than to establish probable cause for your arrest.

The solution? Don't drink and then drive.

Carry On
Click to expand...

Impossible to pass FSTs huh??? Many a police officer have had to demonstrate FSTs in a court room. There are specific number of clues per test that if failed indicate that an 88% chance or better that the person has a BAC greater than .08.

And yes you are correct about PBT refusal being a civil infranction and inadmissable other than to establish Probable Cause. One exception to to that is on a snowmobile, PBT refusal if a misdemeanor and thus an arrestable offense by itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top