Michigan State Police to take your blood pressure/pulse at stops

lol being a avid runner, I have a very low resting heart rate! I'm sure they would suspect me!

if we were all drugged, like in the movie Equilibrium, this wouldn't be a problem...

I guess I fail to see the utility of taking blood pressure. If I am under the influence of weed, perhaps it would be low BUT if I were under the influence of speed or another stimulant, it would most likely be high. So, depending on what their preconceived suspicion is, either way I am guilty of something.

Here is where I think the BP reading may be useful.....

An officer stops someone drivinb, speech is slurred, unsteady on their feet, not complaining of any medical conditions, performs poorly on sobriety tests but the PBT shows .000. A high or low BP and a fast or slow heart rate would further support an arrest for operating under the influence of drugs.

An unusual BP/HR alone means little, but combined with other observations = PC for arrest. Even without a BP/HR assessment, there is probably PC for arrest but the more the better.

This is stupid. Though a single person can be taught how to read a BP on their mate it's quite another to get accurate reading over a range of difference you'll see doing a lot of random people.

Unless they're planning on sending a medic these results won't mean anything. A lawyer could easily get them thrown out costing millions to staff an EMT or RN with each patrol, though I suppose they could use a machine. Regardless, a high or low BP or elevated pulse is not immediately diagnostic of drug use; people get nervious.

DrTodd said:

I guess I fail to see the utility of taking blood pressure. If I am under the influence of weed, perhaps it would be low BUT if I were under the influence of speed or another stimulant, it would most likely be high. So, depending on what their preconceived suspicion is, either way I am guilty of something.

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Thats why they are doing it. Its a way around the 4th.

Epic Fail!

warrior1978 said:

Here is where I think the BP reading may be useful.....

An officer stops someone drivinb, speech is slurred, unsteady on their feet, not complaining of any medical conditions, performs poorly on sobriety tests but the PBT shows .000. A high or low BP and a fast or slow heart rate would further support an arrest for operating under the influence of drugs.

An unusual BP/HR alone means little, but combined with other observations = PC for arrest. Even without a BP/HR assessment, there is probably PC for arrest but the more the better.

Click to expand...

A person, not a diabetic, with low blood sugar (Hypoglycemia) can have the following symptoms depending upon the person and the episode:

WebMD said:

What Causes Low Blood Pressure?
The cause of low blood pressure isn't always clear. It may be associated with the following:

Pregnancy
Hormonal problems such as an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism), diabetes, or low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)
Over-the-counter medications
Overdose of high blood pressure drugs
Heart failure
Heart arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms)
Widening, or dilation, of the blood vessels
Heat exhaustion or heat stroke
Liver disease

Mild hypoglycemia:
Symptoms of mild low blood sugar usually occur when blood sugar falls below 70 mg/dL and may include:

Nausea.
Extreme hunger.
Feeling nervous or jittery.
Cold, clammy, wet skin and/or excessive sweating not caused by exercise.
A rapid heartbeat (tachycardia).
Numbness or tingling of the fingertips or lips.
Trembling.

Moderate hypoglycemia:

If blood sugar continues to fall, the nervous system will be affected. Symptoms usually occur when the blood sugar falls below 55 mg/dL and may include:

Mood changes, such as irritability, anxiety, restlessness, or anger.
Confusion, difficulty in thinking, or inability to concentrate.
Blurred vision, dizziness, or headache.
Weakness, lack of energy.
Poor coordination.
Difficulty walking or talking, such as staggering or slurred speech.
Fatigue, lethargy, or drowsiness.

Severe hypoglycemia:

The symptoms of severe low blood sugar develop when blood sugar falls below 35 mg/dL to 40 mg/dL and may include:

Seizures or convulsions.
Loss of consciousness, coma.
Low body temperature (hypothermia).

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Reference Links:
http://www.webmd.com/heart/understanding-low-blood-pressure-basics
http://diabetes.webmd.com/tc/hypoglycemia-low-blood-sugar-symptoms

NOTE: This is just ONE SIMPLE MEDICAL CONDITION. Would this person's physical responses generate RAS/PC that the person was under the influence of drugs???

I've got that, its not fun. At all.

warrior1978 said:

Here is where I think the BP reading may be useful.....

An officer stops someone drivinb, speech is slurred, unsteady on their feet, not complaining of any medical conditions, performs poorly on sobriety tests but the PBT shows .000. A high or low BP and a fast or slow heart rate would further support an arrest for operating under the influence of drugs.

An unusual BP/HR alone means little, but combined with other observations = PC for arrest. Even without a BP/HR assessment, there is probably PC for arrest but the more the better.

Click to expand...

Actually if this were to happen I can almost guarantee this would garner a call for an ambulance, not for shinny matching bracelets.

If the officer believed the person had these symptoms because of drugs, then he would go to the hospital with the suspect (now patient). If the officer was riding alone, he may cuff the patient to the gurney with the EMT's permission, while fallowing in his patrol car, or if he is with a partner one may ride in the ambulance.

If the police believe it is something illicit and not just medical causing issues, they will work on a warrant for the findings from the hospital, while on the way to the hospital or once they get their.

Ummmm....

While Viagra might raise something it can also lower blood pressure.

So... even though the officer might ask if that is a gun in your pocket or if you are just happy to see him/her........... you may not be happy with the low blood pressure reading..................













http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HypertensionLiving/story?id=5234230

Refuse all roadside testing...

..but remember this from Florida and Alabama? Noth Carolina has 'em too. Maybe some other states.

http://naples.floridaweekly.com/news/2010-09-02/Top_News/DUI_CHECKPOINT.html

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/2...e=Attorney-challenges-use-of-mobile-DUI-tests

PDinDetroit said:

A person, not a diabetic, with low blood sugar (Hypoglycemia) can have the following symptoms depending upon the person and the episode:

NOTE: This is just ONE SIMPLE MEDICAL CONDITION. Would this person's physical responses generate RAS/PC that the person was under the influence of drugs???

Click to expand...

You missed a key part of Warrior's previous post.

warrior1978 said:

Here is where I think the BP reading may be useful.....

An officer stops someone drivinb, speech is slurred, unsteady on their feet, not complaining of any medical conditions forms poorly on sobriety tests but the PBT shows .000. A high or low BP and a fast or slow heart rate would further support an arrest for operating under the influence of drugs.

An unusual BP/HR alone means little, but combined with other observations = PC for arrest. Even without a BP/HR assessment, there is probably PC for arrest but the more the better.

Click to expand...

Warrior has provided a lot of good information here. You don't have to submit to any roadside testing. I know most will think that I'm bias, but IMHO if you are borderline it only hurts your position to refuse.

riverrat10k said:

..but remember this from Florida and Alabama? Noth Carolina has 'em too. Maybe some other states.

http://naples.floridaweekly.com/news/2010-09-02/Top_News/DUI_CHECKPOINT.html

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/2...e=Attorney-challenges-use-of-mobile-DUI-tests

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Check points, at least for the time being, have been declared illegal in Michigan.

7th District said:

You missed a key part of Warrior's previous post.



Warrior has provided a lot of good information here. You don't have to submit to any roadside testing. I know most will think that I'm bias, but IMHO if you are borderline it only hurts your position to refuse.

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How? Because the blood test is more acurate, like the MSP labs..LOL....

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...ests-could-face-scrutiny-after-judge-s-ruling

For what it is worth: I would not consent to a BP being taken by other than trained medical personnel. I most assuredly would not consent to having a LEO take my BP with an automatic machine.

I have one of the automatic BP cuffs to monitor my own BP and it is very sensitive to placement of the cuff or any movement of my arm or body. Even the nurse who routinely takes my BP with one of the machines admits that, with some patients, the BP must be rechecked with a manual cuff and stethoscope.

Not to mention that I am on several meds that cause changes in BP.

As for as blood tests go, I would prefer that a RN or doctor draw my blood. That is nothing against EMTs, most of whom are highly trained, highly skilled, and work hard to retain their proficiency.

As far as breathalyzers go, my COPD pretty well rules out me blowing into one of those things.

SFCRetired said:

As for as blood tests go, I would prefer that a RN or doctor draw my blood. That is nothing against EMTs, most of whom are highly trained, highly skilled, and work hard to retain their proficiency.

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While it may be different in different parts of the state, IIRC some larger jails have an RN on staff, for a blood draw the LEO will take you to the local emergency room. In my experience 98% of the time a lab tech from the hospital will draw your blood. Over the better part of 20 years I have seen RNs draw blood a few times, but I've never seen a doctor draw blood at any time for anything. It's the same for any other time I've seen a doctor order a blood draw, a doctor or RN doesn't do it but a lab tech.

PDinDetroit said:

http://www.petoskeynews.com/news/pn...drugimpaired-drivers-20110501,0,1362251.story

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That aint nothin!!!
In Dallas, San Antonio, and the Houston area, the cops are forcing drunk drives to give a Blood Sample!!!
I dont drink, but I have been treated like I was before. I already made my case on this to my lawyer. If they ever try this crap on me, I will not concent and I WILL RESIST!
Come at me with a needle and see what ya get!

I will leave this thread with a few a parting thoughts

First, you do not have to take field sobriety tests or BP/HR tests but you do have to take a PBT and if arrested, you have to take a blood, breath or urine test (officers choice which you take). If you refuse, there are penalties. It is sometimes good if you take the sobriety tests, sometimes it is bad.

As a LEO, my primary job is not alcohol enforcement but it sometimes falls in my lap. I have personally observed a drunk perform SFSTs perfectly however the eye test (HGN), PBT and one or two other observations told me their Blood Alcohol level was high. The person was very cooperative and when it was all said and done, walked away with a very minor citation as opposed to a trip to the jail in cuffs. I also know many other examples were drunk drivers were tested, failed and then NOT arrested by an officer. And of course there are situtations, me included, where you administer SFSTs, the person does very good and off they go. I have cut off SFSTs half way through because it was quickly apperent that the person really only had "one or two". Every situation is different. Discreation is a key component of a law enforcement officers job, you make their job more difficult, don't expect things to go well.

I will also add that I have arrested drunks and it was the right thing to do. Sometimes the only charge was the alcohol charge. In other situations in addition to the alcohol charge, I added a laundry list of charges to their problems.

If you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar you have choices to make. Cooperation may help you in one situation, hurt you in another. You can put your hand in the cookie jar and hope to not get caught, but you'd be a lot better off not putting your hand in the cookie jar in the first place.

well,,

thanks for your reasonable and polite response to this thorny issue.

This whole thing about blood pressure is preposterous. Unless someone is having a medical emergency with high or low blood pressure, one reading is going to be useless because BP is affected by so many factors. To accurately figure out anything with BP you need to watch it over a period of time.. days, weeks, months...

Also I thought refusing a PBT in MI results in a 6 mo. suspension of your DL ?