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Thread: "Friction Grows Between Lawmakers and DOJ Over 'Project Gunrunner' Probe"

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    "Friction Grows Between Lawmakers and DOJ Over 'Project Gunrunner' Probe"

    Latest developments here. Holder needs to find a new job.

    "The notion that somehow or another that this Justice Department is responsible for those deaths, that assertion is offensive," Holder said, referring to the death of American Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

    No, Mr. Holder, the fact that your Justice Department is partly responsible for those deaths is the offensive part.

    I'm really not sure how an honest person can see it any other way.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 05-04-2011 at 03:54 PM.

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    I pray we see jail time from ATF and Higher Ups but yet again I am just dreaming Federal Agents are never responsible for their actions especially the ATF.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    You can say that again!

    BREAKING: CBS News obtains document linking asst. AG to ‘Gunrunner’

    CBS News is reporting that documents obtained by Congressional investigators looking into the Project Gunrunner scandal include a wiretap authorization from Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer dated in March 2010.


    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...g-to-gunrunner


    Holder on Gunrunner: ‘I frankly don’t know’

    Under grilling by Senator Charles Grassley Wednesday, Attorney General Eric Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee that he does not know how guns allowed to “walk” during a federal gun sting operation ended up at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in December 2010.
    “I frankly don’t know,” Holder told the committee.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...kly-don-t-know

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Perhaps he now understands that only the person who pulls the trigger is responsible.

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    It would be just a shame if he was forced to step down............(sarcasm meter is needed)
    Last edited by zack991; 05-04-2011 at 05:42 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Justice Officials in "panic mode"

    This has been reported in other threads as well, but just for those who are reading this one, it looks like there will finally (and hopefully) be some accountability here.

    TFred

    Justice Officials in 'Panic Mode' as Hearing Nears on Failed Anti-Gun Trafficking Program

    Short introduction:

    Officials at the Department of Justice are in "panic mode," according to multiple sources, as word spreads that congressional testimony next week will paint a bleak and humiliating picture of Operation Fast and Furious, the botched undercover operation that left a trail of blood from Mexico to Washington, D.C.

    The operation was supposed to stem the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexico by allowing so-called straw buyers to purchase guns legally in the U.S. and later sell them in Mexico, usually to drug cartels.

    Instead, ATF documents show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms knowingly and deliberately flooded Mexico with assault rifles. Their intent was to expose the entire smuggling organization, from top to bottom, but the operation spun out of control and supervisors refused pleas from field agents to stop it.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    House Panel Releases Scathing Report on 'Fast and Furious' Gun Operation, Sure to Anger Mexico

    ...the operation was a bust, a deadly strategy that left a trail of blood and bodies throughout the Southwest, the scathing congressional report said, concluding that a reckless and irresponsible chain of command ignored repeated warnings the plan would fail.

    "You've got people who are dead, you have weapons that are missing and you have an administration that doesn't seem to want to take any accountability for it," said Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah and a member of the House Government Oversight Committee. "There is absolutely no justification, no justification for this. There are people that are going to have to be held accountable."

    That effort begins Wednesday morning when the committee opens hearings on Operation Fast and Furious. Those testifying include the family of murdered Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and three ATF special agents who say the plan was doomed from the very beginning.

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    Fast & Furious Explodes: Issa calls operation ‘felony stupid’

    The chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform today called “Operation Fast and Furious” an effort that was “felony stupid” and he promised that those responsible would be held accountable.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-felony-stupid

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Justice Officials in 'Panic Mode' as Hearing Nears on Failed Anti-Gun Trafficking Program

    The operation was supposed to stem the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexico by allowing so-called straw buyers to purchase guns legally in the U.S. and later sell them in Mexico, usually to drug cartels.
    If it was a Straw purchase, it was ILLEGAL. PERIOD! They allowed/coerced them to break the law!
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
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    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    In context I read it to mean the purchases were lawful other than that they were straw purchases. But yeah, when you read the LITTERAL way it's written.....oooops.

    I read the entire PDF of the "stunning report" linked from the one article....pretty damning tetimony and some rediculous assertions from DOJ like their (only them) definition of "walking a gun". According to DOJ a gun only "walks" if the ATF hands the weapon to the straw purchaser. I think maybe they've been too buddy buddy with the DEA guys and the DEA evidence locker.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Congress should freeze ALL of the funding for the BATFE until they cooperate fully with this investigation. After the BATFE is found to be guilty of breaking the law, it should be permanently disbanded, and the highest-ranking officials who OKed this operation should be prosecuted under the Patriot Act as "domestic terrorists", because their actions led directly to the deaths of US LEOs...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Congress should freeze ALL of the funding for the BATFE until they cooperate fully with this investigation. After the BATFE is found to be guilty of breaking the law, it should be permanently disbanded, and the highest-ranking officials who OKed this operation should be prosecuted under the Patriot Act as "domestic terrorists", because their actions led directly to the deaths of US LEOs...
    This is a win win.

    But of course they will exempt themselves from the law like they do with so many other laws.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Administration apologists working ‘Fast and Furiously’ to counter revelations

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...er-revelations

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    ‘Melson should go’ says Issa as pressure builds

    Kenneth Melson, acting director of the embattled Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives should step down.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...ressure-builds
    Last edited by Dave Workman; 06-21-2011 at 12:11 PM.

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    Issa heading to Mexico as more F&F guns linked to bloodshed

    Congressman Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, is heading to Mexico Friday as new reports of Operation Fast and Furious-linked guns being involved in a high-profile murder have surfaced.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...d-to-bloodshed

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Over 150 dead from GunRunner weapons - including TWO U.S. Officers

    Didn't find this in any threads and this seems to be the most current active thread on Gun Runner.

    Mexican officials estimate 150 dead from Gun Runner weapons.
    TWO U.S. officers dead from Gun Runner weapons (Terry and Zapata)
    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-under-fire/

    Holder and BATFE senior leadership as well as field office suppervisors that didn't say NO need to be expelled and punished.

    The investigtion needs to go up the chain and uncover the roots of this conspiracy to trump up bad PR for "assault weapons" in order to gain support for more gun control!
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    George Custer, meet Ken Melson and Eric Holder

    History buffs will recall that today is the 135th anniversary of the Battle of the Little Bighorn, a military catastrophe that also became a political debacle, and if George Armstrong Custer were alive today, he could probably teach Kenneth Melson and Eric Holder something valuable about strategic errors.


    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...nd-eric-holder

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    So, I'm waiting for the NAACP and La Rasa to come out against "Project GunRunner" because it is obviously panning out to be an all-out plan for "genocide", seeing as how nearly EVERY person killed by these Fed-supplied guns was a "person of color"...

    But I'm not holding my breath on that one...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    George Custer, meet Ken Melson and Eric Holder

    History buffs will recall that today is the 135th anniversary of the Battle of the Little Bighorn, a military catastrophe that also became a political debacle, and if George Armstrong Custer were alive today, he could probably teach Kenneth Melson and Eric Holder something valuable about strategic errors.
    If he were alive today (or at all, for that matter, after Little Bighorn), would have learned the lesson in the first place?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Uglier and uglier.

    Justice Department Obstructing 'Fast and Furious' Gun Probe, ATF Director Says

    Beginning of article:

    The Justice Department is obstructing the congressional investigation of a U.S. law enforcement operation intended to crack down on major weapons traffickers on the Southwest border, according to the embattled leader of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    Ken Melson, the acting director of the ATF, lobbed the accusation when he sneaked in for an interview with congressional investigators on July 4, two days ahead of his scheduled interview with the inspector general about the operation known as "Fast and Furious," Fox News has learned.

    "If his account is accurate, then ATF leadership appears to have been effectively muzzled while the DOJ sent over false denials and buried its head in the sand," Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said in a letter Tuesday to Attorney General Eric Holder. "That approach distorted the truth and obstructed our investigation."

  21. #21
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Even better....the ATF's supposed target was an FBI informant who used tax dollars to buy guns for the cartels, apparently with FBI knowledge.

    It gets curiouser and curiouser.....and they begin to feed on their own.....Maybe the ATF and DOJ will destroy each other?
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The saga continues

    Feds Silent on How Convicted Felons Bought Guns in 'Operation Fast and Furious'

    They cant' seem to get their brain wrapped around the fact that the ATF approved the sale of these weapons to known felons. All they need to do is ask the shop owners who were told and threatened to sell to people that they knew were ineligible.

    TFred

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Seriously folks, how much more screwed up can the Feds get on this case? This sounds to me like they are once again trying to engage in CYA shenanigans, denying the fact that the FEDS are responsible for the CRIMES that were committed that put these guns in the hands of criminals.

    How much more of this will the American people tolerate?

    TFred

    UN-believable.


    U.S. Attorney's Office Rejects Family of Murdered Border Patrol Agent as Crime Victims

    Snips:

    In a surprise move in a controversial case, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona is opposing a routine motion by the family of murdered Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry to qualify as crime victims in the eyes of the court.

    [...]

    However in this case, U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke argues because the family was not "directly or proximately harmed" by the illegal purchase of the murder weapon, it does not meet the definition of "crime victim" in the Avila case. Burke claims the victim of the Avila's gun purchases, "is not any particular person, but society in general."

    Prominent litigator and the former U.S. Attorney in Florida, Kendall Coffey disagrees.

    "The government apparently is saying they're not victims, even though it was a federal crime that put the murder weapon in the hands of the killer of Brian Terry," says Coffey. "They are simply rights of respect, rights of communication and the right to be heard."

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The only "friction" that the leadership of BATFE, DEA, and FBI should be experiencing is the friction of handcuffs tightly clamped around their wrists as they are perp-walked into Rikers Island...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    ATF promotes supervisors in controversial gun operation

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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