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Thread: Deafening silence....

  1. #1
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    Deafening silence....

    Interesting I find the deafening silence from certain elements here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Interesting I find the deafening silence from certain elements here...
    Yeah, I noticed a distinct lack of chest thumping Internet bravado...what's up guys? Are you not just as pissed at the House as you were the Senate....were are the demands of resignation, etc?

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    What do you want them to say? EVERYONE won today except us. Think about it:

    The Republicans get to say they tried to get us OC and fought the good fit in the legislature but were betrayed by RINO's and Democrats so please vote for us...

    The Democrats and RINO's get to say they blocked the gun-nuts from turning Florida into the Wild West so please vote for us...

    The LEO's now get a weapon to use against CC'ers under the guise of legislature to protect them...

    The NRA/USF gets to ask for more contributions and produce more propaganda stating they fought hard for our rights and won some and will be back next year to fight again so please send more checks...

    The honest, concealed weapon permit holders who want real protection against exposure (accidental, brief, or fully intentional) get to sit in the middle and suck on it.

    What more would you like us to post/say at this point?

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Yeah, I noticed a distinct lack of chest thumping Internet bravado...what's up guys? Are you not just as pissed at the House as you were the Senate....were are the demands of resignation, etc?
    Oh no, not at all. I’m on the call list now asking my republican representatives why a democrat house member had to be the one that attempted to resurrect the true title of SB234? We’ll see how many call me back next week. Be it posturing or what did you call it “political maneuvering” I will be getting some answers.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Just was noticing a distinct silence from the "take it easy" bunch. But no biggie, few of us had any real faith that today's dog-n-pony show was anything other than that.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    To be honest, I'm tired. I didn't really expect today to happen. Before the Communist run Senate decided to shoot down expanding freedom for Floridians, I fought fought fought and wrote uncountable emails to my representatives. I was glued to the forum every chance I got to see what was going on. After that happened I lost hope and took a break. Today was a surprise, but look where SB234 stands.

    I don't think this is even about representing your people, I think it's more about protecting the constitution. They take an oath to support the constitution, representing your people comes next. Constitution first, yet, a bill that expands a destroyed constitutional right is shot down.

    These guys aren't just bad representatives of We The People, they are bad Americans. They don't share a love for freedom like we do. They oppose what our founding fathers fought and died for. These guys are dangerous and they're in control.

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    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
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    Just nuthin to say... We lost open carry... This time.

    We now need to campaign to have two little words removed from the statute..."Briefly and"

    As soon as those two words are gone, we'll have exactly the bill we wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    To be honest, I'm tired. I didn't really expect today to happen. Before the Communist run Senate decided to shoot down expanding freedom for Floridians, I fought fought fought and wrote uncountable emails to my representatives. I was glued to the forum every chance I got to see what was going on. After that happened I lost hope and took a break. Today was a surprise, but look where SB234 stands.

    I don't think this is even about representing your people, I think it's more about protecting the constitution. They take an oath to support the constitution, representing your people comes next. Constitution first, yet, a bill that expands a destroyed constitutional right is shot down.

    These guys aren't just bad representatives of We The People, they are bad Americans. They don't share a love for freedom like we do. They oppose what our founding fathers fought and died for. These guys are dangerous and they're in control.
    Well, there is a corrective action that can be taken...

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    Oh no, not at all. I’m on the call list now asking my republican representatives why a democrat house member had to be the one that attempted to resurrect the true title of SB234? We’ll see how many call me back next week. Be it posturing or what did you call it “political maneuvering” I will be getting some answers.
    Yes, exactly what they want to tell you......

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    Regular Member RRobaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well, there is a corrective action that can be taken...
    And I for one, plan on taking that corrective action in November. This isn't my ONLY issue, but it is one reasonably high up on my list.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post

    These guys aren't just bad representatives of We The People, they are bad Americans. They don't share a love for freedom like we do. They oppose what our founding fathers fought and died for. These guys are dangerous and they're in control.
    +1

    Again, legalizing OC is a tall order. It doesn't matter what state you are in. If that state had criminalized OC for some reason 25 years ago, getting the prohibition repealed would take work. Even in gold star states people react with surprise when they learn OC is legal. We've been TRAINED. Please read my signature. They're government school educated, don't appreciate any of the reasons for OC, would never OC themselves, and so assume that there must be a darn good reason OC was made illegal in the first place. Despite being wrong countless times, they're not into the gun rights movement so they really think OC will turn into "the wild wild west."

    If we want it, we cannot in any way confirm their stereotypes of "gun nut". Being overzealous and visibly upset will not help the cause. I'm going to try and do what Sean says. He and FL carry are on the map and have taken initiative and are serious about FL getting OC. This is doable. OK has failed the last two years. TX failed on their first attempt, and may even fail this year. Arkansas failed this year. South Carolina failed this year. We're going to have to leave the comfort zone and actually go to the offices of these people, or whatever it is Fl carry has planned.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RRobaldo View Post
    And I for one, plan on taking that corrective action in November. This isn't my ONLY issue, but it is one reasonably high up on my list.
    Do it. Run. for your district.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    Yes, exactly what they want to tell you......
    So, do nothing?

    Nothing positive has happened in the government of this state in over 20 years. It has the perfect combination of Neocons and Liberals to guarantee absolute Statism.

    Unless they put their support in writing, and publicly, don't believe a word they say. Politicians are, by nature, liars. But in Florida, you'll be impressed by how low they can stoop; and how well it pays to do so.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    +1

    Again, legalizing OC is a tall order. It doesn't matter what state you are in. If that state had criminalized OC for some reason 25 years ago, getting the prohibition repealed would take work. Even in gold star states people react with surprise when they learn OC is legal. We've been TRAINED. Please read my signature. They're government school educated, don't appreciate any of the reasons for OC, would never OC themselves, and so assume that there must be a darn good reason OC was made illegal in the first place. Despite being wrong countless times, they're not into the gun rights movement so they really think OC will turn into "the wild wild west."

    If we want it, we cannot in any way confirm their stereotypes of "gun nut". Being overzealous and visibly upset will not help the cause. I'm going to try and do what Sean says. He and FL carry are on the map and have taken initiative and are serious about FL getting OC. This is doable. OK has failed the last two years. TX failed on their first attempt, and may even fail this year. Arkansas failed this year. South Carolina failed this year. We're going to have to leave the comfort zone and actually go to the offices of these people, or whatever it is Fl carry has planned.
    It's the gas prices. We'd all be there if we could afford it, but they've brought us to our knees. So now we come to labor 16 hours in the 24, and give them the wages of 15... that remaining hour unable to provide us... potatoes... you get the idea.

    We can't even count to potato anymore. It didn't happen by accident.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ...and your chocolate rations have been increased from 30 to 25 grams.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Just was noticing a distinct silence from the "take it easy" bunch. But no biggie, few of us had any real faith that today's dog-n-pony show was anything other than that.
    What, exactly, would you have "us" do? We played the game, fought hard, and lost in the 9th inning. We will now prepare for next season, starting with requesting or and compiling data on CWFL holders who have been unduly detained for the reasons this abortion of a bill supposedly fixes. Get detained for momentary exposure? Call Florida Carry and let us know. Hopefully, we'll get hundreds of these incidents to throw at the legislature next year and tell them, "see, it didn't work, just like we said".
    Rich
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    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    What, exactly, would you have "us" do? We played the game, fought hard, and lost in the 9th inning. We will now prepare for next season, starting with requesting or and compiling data on CWFL holders who have been unduly detained for the reasons this abortion of a bill supposedly fixes. Get detained for momentary exposure? Call Florida Carry and let us know. Hopefully, we'll get hundreds of these incidents to throw at the legislature next year and tell them, "see, it didn't work, just like we said".
    A good idea, but can't be the major point or we'll lose again. This problem is a footnote to the real problem of our rights being seriously infringed, IMO.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  18. #18
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    Posted by 77zach:

    Again, legalizing OC is a tall order. It doesn't matter what state you are in. If that state had criminalized OC for some reason 25 years ago, getting the prohibition repealed would take work. Even in gold star states people react with surprise when they learn OC is legal. We've been TRAINED. Please read my signature. They're government school educated, don't appreciate any of the reasons for OC, would never OC themselves, and so assume that there must be a darn good reason OC was made illegal in the first place. Despite being wrong countless times, they're not into the gun rights movement so they really think OC will turn into "the wild wild west."

    If we want it, we cannot in any way confirm their stereotypes of "gun nut". Being overzealous and visibly upset will not help the cause. I'm going to try and do what Sean says. He and FL carry are on the map and have taken initiative and are serious about FL getting OC. This is doable. OK has failed the last two years. TX failed on their first attempt, and may even fail this year. Arkansas failed this year. South Carolina failed this year. We're going to have to leave the comfort zone and actually go to the offices of these people, or whatever it is Fl carry has planned.
    Agree. It's going to take a while.
    We're dealing with people (politicians) who only see guns on TV and in the movies and only when someone is about to get shot.
    If you expect them to suddenly see that carrying a gun openly is a positive thing and that people won't die by the carload, you're being naïve.
    If you expect them to ignore the lies from the Bradys and politically motivated LEOs, you’re being naïve.
    If you expect the NRA and the USF to defeat them and magically give you the laws you want on the first try, you’re being naïve.

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    "requesting or and compiling data on CWFL holders who have been unduly detained for the reasons this abortion "

    Are you bloody KIDDING ME? THAT's the plan? gather statistics on a non-issue?
    Or what-send folks out to deliberately test it, so they can get nailed for it, and be the statistic that you need?

    Christ,no wonder we're doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Christ,no wonder we're doomed.
    We would be if there were more people like you out there.

    You clearly have no understanding of any of the processes involved and seem to be completely ignorant of the reality of politics.

    Why don't you go sit down and let serious people work on this.

    You are nothing more than a distraction.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    We would be if there were more people like you out there.

    You clearly have no understanding of any of the processes involved and seem to be completely ignorant of the reality of politics.

    Why don't you go sit down and let serious people work on this.

    You are nothing more than a distraction.
    I think you may be onto something. Maybe we can go sit down with the newly formed (being formed) FL-CDL.
    "completely ignorant of the reality", "You are nothing more than a distraction", you arrogant SOB. You are the one that caused me to investigate Florida Carry and you are the reason I pulled my future donations. You and your little buddies on here want us to go sit down like you did in Tally when they gutted the bill. I assume our dollars are a distraction also. Oh no look what I did, I made and "As$ out of "you" and me when I contributed to a single minded group. The distraction to the cause is you. Maybe you need to put the "I'm not a lawyer" sig on here also. You also need to ad "I'm not a recruiter of allies".

    Man this guy pisses me off. Why can't he simply save his arrogance for the pricks in Tally and stop attacking fellow gun owners on here. You guys at floridaconcealedcarry have really created something. Put a muzzle on him or take him back over there....

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...ration-florida
    http://www.lonestarcdl.org/
    http://www.vcdl.org/
    Last edited by firedog; 05-06-2011 at 06:31 AM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    We would be if there were more people like you out there.

    You clearly have no understanding of any of the processes involved and seem to be completely ignorant of the reality of politics.

    Why don't you go sit down and let serious people work on this.

    You are nothing more than a distraction.
    Once again,genius, show me where I'm wrong. And put it to a poll ,if you feel the need.

    You suggest a "strategy" based on gathering statistics for an activity which is nearly non-existent. By the same token, you shoot others down for suggesting a Proposition/Petition for a referendum because they'll "need X # of signatures"

    So where does your proposed strategy leave the cause? Sending nutbars out to provoke/test the system so that they can be detained and or arrested,just so you can take a handful of statistics to Tally, and say "ooh look! oooh looook- your law is flawed!" ??? The clowns in Tally know damned well it's flawed. They deliberately made it that way,so that they can try to say "gee, see here, we tried to do the right thing,but couldnt, so we compromised and got this half-assed protection for CW thing".
    100% bunk. You know it, FLC knows it, they know it-we all know it.

    Instead of merely bitching about it, or clinging to fantasies of "convincing" these folks to do our bidding, some of us are instead focusing on the real problem-the real distraction-the clowns who deliberately stand in the way of right, and who actively seek to continue to DENY you that right. Our suggestion is to work towards reducing or eliminating (politically-) the number of clowns in office,and finding folks more inclined to work TOWARDS re-establishing that right.
    A longer shot,no doubt, but surely not much longer than 20+ yrs of continuing this sad story.

    Ignorance of the reality of politics? Hardly sport. We understand full-well.And see right through the b.s. now,dont we. And rather than sit on the outside,and speculate as to who stands where on what, we intend to work it from the INSIDE, and serve as a counter to the opposition directly.

  23. #23
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    Here’s how we ended up in this situation in the first place:

    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just ban ‘Saturday Night Specials’”.
    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just register all the handguns”.
    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just register all the long guns, too”.
    “We want to completely ban carrying guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll allow you to carry a gun if you get a license from your local LEO, get fingerprinted, pay for a background check and show us you have a valid reason to carry a gun”.

    And so on. One “compromise” at a time, they took our rights. It was always a win for them and a loss for us. They were patient and they played the system. In the last twenty-odd years, we’ve managed to fight our way part way out of that hole, but we’re not there yet.

    Now some of you want to take us back to 1870 in one session of the legislature. That’s an unrealistic goal. It can’t be done. The legislative process won’t allow it.
    Blaming the people who are working on your behalf for being unable to change the system overnight is unreasonable, to say the least.

    There’s an old saying; “I do what I can, not what I should”. We should force the legislature to decriminalize open carry, but it’s not possible to do it all at once.
    Furious rants and finger-pointing don’t help. Withholding membership fees and donations to the NRA/ILA and the USF doesn’t help. That just makes you part of the problem.

  24. #24
    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japle View Post
    Here’s how we ended up in this situation in the first place:

    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just ban ‘Saturday Night Specials’”.
    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just register all the handguns”.
    “We want to completely ban guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll just register all the long guns, too”.
    “We want to completely ban carrying guns and you don’t, so let’s compromise. We’ll allow you to carry a gun if you get a license from your local LEO, get fingerprinted, pay for a background check and show us you have a valid reason to carry a gun”.

    And so on. One “compromise” at a time, they took our rights. It was always a win for them and a loss for us. They were patient and they played the system. In the last twenty-odd years, we’ve managed to fight our way part way out of that hole, but we’re not there yet.

    Now some of you want to take us back to 1870 in one session of the legislature. That’s an unrealistic goal. It can’t be done. The legislative process won’t allow it.
    Blaming the people who are working on your behalf for being unable to change the system overnight is unreasonable, to say the least.

    There’s an old saying; “I do what I can, not what I should”. We should force the legislature to decriminalize open carry, but it’s not possible to do it all at once.
    Furious rants and finger-pointing don’t help. Withholding membership fees and donations to the NRA/ILA and the USF doesn’t help. That just makes you part of the problem.
    Respectfully I disagree. We had this one. The language was there, the sponsor was there and the votes were there. IMO and from what I saw (not in the back rooms anyway) we had this one. Had the NRA/ILA brought their A game and told them “we will bring the full weight of the NRA in opposition to your reelection and future US goals” I believe we would have had a complete victory. Even Boogie may have stepped away. If the NRA had indicated they were willing to take a defeat if OC was pulled from the bill we would have gotten OC this session. This is my belief and it will be unyielding. The NRA needs to know more people are pointing at them and whatever it takes to convince them they took the easy way to victory on this one and it was not right for Floridians.

    Our compromise was licensed OC. Enough compromise.

    2A all the way..!
    Last edited by firedog; 05-06-2011 at 09:35 AM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Agreed.^
    But to add- no one's blaming FLC and the like -said it before-the blame lies entirely in the house and senate-to the opposition who go out of their way to deny you your rights,as well as to the fair-weather allies who meekly step aside and accept defeat and compromise.(which, to be totally honest, was a sham/a show, just to get some postive pats on the back before revealing their true colors at the last minute)
    The disagreement is on how to approach/solve the problem.
    Some want to continue things by pushing a stance that is a non-issue to begin with, and to take that stance on the same folks in Tally who are the problem.While side-stepping the real issue.

    And why,exactly, can something not be done in one bill? One session? They can sure as hell whipe out your rights at the stroke of a pen in one session, why should they be "unable" to restore them with the same swift stroke? The only reason such an act can be considered impossible, is because the people continue to allow it to be so.

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