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School events at parks.

amzbrady

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My wife and I decided to go to the park and go for a walk after breakfast yesterday. As we pulled into the park, there was some of the road blocked off and school busses parked in the parking lot, and kids everywhere. Some salmon event for the Pasco school kids. I drove down further to get away from the kids for a few then we took our walk, ( I was open carry). I was just wondering if the school can lease a public park, (Columbia park in Kennewick is actually leased from the army corps of engineers from the way I read the sign)? I didnt want to take a chance on being within 1000 feet of a school function. I need to do some research / homework.
 

BigDave

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This is the only place in the RCW's where I feel you may have trouble, if you were to carry in the area around the students attending this function.
"or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools"
Of course we all know it will come down to how the courts will view this.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
 

sudden valley gunner

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Good point NavyLt, that post made me look up the definition of facilities. It looks like it has to be a structure of some sort. And doesn't not mean the open ground. Never thought about it that way.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/facility.html
facility
Definitions (3)
1. General: Permanent, semi-permanent, or temporary commercial or industrial property such as a building, plant, or structure, built, established, or installed for the performance of one or more specific activities or functions.

2. Banking: Arrangement under which a bank or supplier extends an advantageous service (such as an overdraft or deferred payments) to a customer.

3. Lodging: Accommodations, bars, restaurants, meeting rooms, and other core physical features attached to a hotel.
 

sirpuma

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I would think the key word there is "Exclusively". In other words, did the school lease the entire park and close it down to the public in general. A school can lease public places for the exclusive use of the school where you have to be part of the school activity to enter the "Facility" but I think in your case they were on a field trip to the park and it wasn't reserved exclusively for the school. I think legally you could have walked right through the whole crowd of kids and be fine.
 

BigDave

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Here is a couple and take away what you want but still as I have stated before, it will be left up to the judge likely to determine if this park area is considered a facility.

I know numerous people refer to using the facilities as using the bathroom, shower, baseball, football, track or soccer fields so in light of this if this park had any amenities and the school at that point in time while being used exclusively by public or private schools.
I do not know this event nor have attended it so others that have will have to describe it to see if it fits or not.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/facility

facility [fəˈsɪlɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. ease of action or performance; freedom from difficulty
2. ready skill or ease deriving from practice or familiarity
3. (often plural) the means or equipment facilitating the performance of an action
4. Rare easy-going disposition
5. (Military) Military an organization or building offering supporting capability
6. (usually plural) a euphemistic word for lavatory
[from Latin facilitās, from facilis easy; see facile]


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/facility

facility (Institution), noun agency, bureau, establishment, foundation, institute, organization, organized society, sodalitas
Associated concepts: reinsurance facility
 

gogodawgs

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BigDave

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Last edited:

BigDave

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On the issue of exclusive, one would think if they reserved the park for this event then it would apply along with if it was found to be a facility.
 

gogodawgs

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On the issue of exclusive, one would think if they reserved the park for this event then it would apply along with if it was found to be a facility.

http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=67

Does "exclusively" mean prolonged exclusive use as when a school rents a building
for an extended period solely for school activities, like an off campus classroom, or
does it include sporadic use of a multi-use facility such as the Kingdome during the
football playoffs?

We conclude that the term "used exclusively" refers to uses where the school or schools have
sole possession, control, or use of an area of a facility. It is not limited by the duration of the use.

snip

"Exclusive" is defined as "excluding or having power to
exclude" and "limiting or limited to possession, control, or use (as by a single individual or
organization or by a special group or class)". Webster's Third New International Dictionary 793
(1981). Thus, if the school can exclude other potential users of a facility, the school has "exclusive
use" of the facility. The definition, of itself, implies no limit on the duration of the exclusive use.
 

amzbrady

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there werent any signs. A few barackades closing off roads. Parents were there, and we could drive around most of the immediate area where the kids were. It looked as though the kids had displays up for the public to view. I have a CPL, but I didnt have my jacket, and my IWB holster is very irritating with no shirt between it and skin. We just wanted to walk and I didnt want to go out of my way, and change carry, I was already openly carrying, so we found a spot further down the road. Besides we had more fun watching the geese waddle around vs a bunch of kids we dont know.
 

BigDave

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Something to consider here as the event ran by the school at a local park so likely it was reserved for their event.
The reason I say this is if someone was creating an annoyance that was disrupting the event and the police were called, would he or she be removed from the event?
Roads being closed off, booths set up would indicate they have complete control over that portion of the park but likely not all of the park so exercising your right to open carry as you did I would see as being well with in your right, but if you were to join their activity then one would be in violation of state law.
 

amlevin

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Something to consider here as the event ran by the school at a local park so likely it was reserved for their event.
The reason I say this is if someone was creating an annoyance that was disrupting the event and the police were called, would he or she be removed from the event?
Roads being closed off, booths set up would indicate they have complete control over that portion of the park but likely not all of the park so exercising your right to open carry as you did I would see as being well with in your right, but if you were to join their activity then one would be in violation of state law.

While the roads were blocked, were there any other barricades to indicate the space was for the exclusive use by the School function? Ropes or fencing to prevent pedestrians from entering the area unless they were part of the function? Any signs indicating the "exclusive use"?

Absent any of those it would be hard to make a claim of exclusive use although one might have to prove his point in court. THAT is the real issue.

Frankly, the last place I would choose to go if I wanted a relaxing walk would be anywhere near a bunch of school kids. Not so much that the kids would be the problem, but their parents and the school staff. I find them all to be annoying.
 

BigDave

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Are we getting tied up into exclusive use as keeping out others or restricting them from entering? I do not think that this would be the case but more toward the exclusive use would be as in making a reservation or rental of that space making it exclusive for their purpose and use.
 

cbpeck

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I keep reading people post about staying "1000 ft" away, but I don't recall seeing this requirement anywhere in the RCWs.

Everything in 9.41.280 talks about being on "public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools." Either you are on the school's grounds, transportation, facilities, etc... or you aren't. 1 ft or 1000 ft outside makes no difference. So long as you aren't on/in the school's area, you're fine. Right?

If I'm mistaken PLEASE let me know.
 
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BigDave

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It is in Federal Law.

18 USC § 921 Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
a public, parochial or private school.

(26) The term “school” means a school which provides
elementary or secondary education, as determined
under State law.

18 U.S.C. § 922(q)
2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.
(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be
unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for
the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a
firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm
-
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school
zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity.
(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting
or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute
establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
 
Last edited:

Lammo

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I keep reading people post about staying "1000 ft" away, but I don't recall seeing this requirement anywhere in the RCWs.

Everything in 9.41.280 talks about being on "public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools." Either you are on the school's grounds, transportation, facilities, etc... or you aren't. 1 ft or 1000 ft outside makes no difference. So long as you aren't on/in the school's area, you're fine. Right?

If I'm mistaken PLEASE let me know.

Federal law. 18 US Code 921(a)(25)(B): http://law.justia.com/codes/us/title18/18usc921.html

PS - - BigDave beat me to this while I was looking it up.
 
Last edited:

amlevin

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Are we getting tied up into exclusive use as keeping out others or restricting them from entering? I do not think that this would be the case but more toward the exclusive use would be as in making a reservation or rental of that space making it exclusive for their purpose and use.

Wouldn't it be hard to make a case for exclusive for their purpose and use if they allowed the general public to wander in and out at will?
 

BigDave

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Wouldn't it be hard to make a case for exclusive for their purpose and use if they allowed the general public to wander in and out at will?

Boils down to the definition of exclusive, is it exclusive if the school reserved the park area for an event put on by the school and invited the public.

Definition of EXCLUSIVE
1
a : excluding or having power to exclude
b : limiting or limited to possession, control, or use by a single individual or group
 
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