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Thread: My buddy's lesson around VCU last night.

  1. #1
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    My buddy's lesson around VCU last night.

    I had a buddy call me today. Last night on his way to his girlfriend's apartment, he was approached by 2 guys who were standing on the other side of the road, spaced way out, in the shadows of the parked cars. My buddy was walking across the street when they both started walking towards him. He is a good street smart guy, and picked up on the tactic.
    Here is the kicker.... his girlfriend is not very keen on carrying guns around, so he was being polite and left it in his truck. When they started to approach, he quickly turned and ran back to his truck. He retrieved his pistol and put it on. When he came back to the area, the two guys were waiting on him. They started to approach him again, but this time he said "hold it right there, that is a bad idea for you... im carrying". they stopped and backed off saying "oh, we cool...we cool...".

    I think he learned a very valuable lesson about selective carrying.....

  2. #2
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Sounds like it could have been a very bad situation...glad that it worked out.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Namely, appeasement can get you robbed, severely hurt, or killed and you can't predict when you'll need your gun.

    I'll keep mine always, thanks.
    Last edited by t33j; 05-06-2011 at 10:37 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    I wonder what his girlfriend's opinion is now regarding carrying guns around.

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    Not a criticism, but a reminder. Always be the first one to call the police.

    In a situation like the OP, all it would take is for our gangbanger buddies to call the cops and report "some dude threatened us with a gun."

    And, don't forget, going back to the same area now armed can also be presented to a jury as going looking for trouble if shooting does become necessary. In a situation like in the OP, better to just get in the truck and leave, I'm thinking. After calling the police to report the predatory tactics, of course.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-06-2011 at 11:30 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Not a criticism, but a reminder. Always be the first one to call the police.

    In a situation like the OP, all it would take is for our gangbanger buddies to call the cops and report "some dude threatened us with a gun."

    And, don't forget, going back to the same area now armed can also be presented to a jury as going looking for trouble if shooting does become necessary. In a situation like in the OP, better to just get in the truck and leave, I'm thinking. After calling the police to report the predatory tactics, of course.
    I think you're overlooking a crucial piece of information: "Last night on his way to his girlfriend's apartment..."

    I don't think it's likely that he's going to call and say, "Sorry honey, I was on my way over, but there were two thuggie-looking guys out in front of your apartment, so I just left... maybe we can try again next weekend?"

    A tad overplayed, yes, but I think you see my point.

    TFred

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    I had a buddy call me today. Last night on his way to his girlfriend's apartment, he was approached by 2 guys who were standing on the other side of the road, spaced way out, in the shadows of the parked cars. My buddy was walking across the street when they both started walking towards him. He is a good street smart guy, and picked up on the tactic.
    Here is the kicker.... his girlfriend is not very keen on carrying guns around, so he was being polite and left it in his truck. When they started to approach, he quickly turned and ran back to his truck. He retrieved his pistol and put it on. When he came back to the area, the two guys were waiting on him. They started to approach him again, but this time he said "hold it right there, that is a bad idea for you... im carrying". they stopped and backed off saying "oh, we cool...we cool...".

    I think he learned a very valuable lesson about selective carrying.....
    Him being polite almost cost him being robbed. Glad he's okay, Great lesson to learn. Be polite and carry to protect your life and others around you.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I think you're overlooking a crucial piece of information: "Last night on his way to his girlfriend's apartment..."

    I don't think it's likely that he's going to call and say, "Sorry honey, I was on my way over, but there were two thuggie-looking guys out in front of your apartment, so I just left... maybe we can try again next weekend?"

    A tad overplayed, yes, but I think you see my point.

    TFred
    I thought about that, and do see your point.

    But, realize that if he had shot a robber on the way back the second time, he still wouldn't have made it to his girlfriend's apartment. At least not until after the police preliminaries.

    And, think of the poor girlfriend in such a situation. Now she has to listen to the story of his heroics, instead of the originally scheduled...um...interlude.

  9. #9
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Should have called 911, after first encounter but definitely after second encounter.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    I think he learned a very valuable lesson about selective carrying.....
    And perhaps the two dudes learned a lesson about 'victim selection'....

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Should have called 911, after first encounter but definitely after second encounter.
    Called 911 and reported what exactly? That two guys were walking towards him and it made him 'uncomfortable'?

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"
    there is always a way to make a situation better......after the fact. Most times things happen so fast you dont have a chance to sit and ponder about what the best choice of action would be for the best outcome.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"
    +1

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"
    -1

    From reading other self defense stories, many a mugging began with a mugger trying to engage the victim in conversation so they could get closer. Don't help them!

    While his statement probably could be improved it worked! I would probably say something like, "Back off" but when he told them he was carrying, in my mind that was justification to be able to draw his firearm if they continued in his direction. Of course I am not a lawyer.

    I wonder how a person that is suspiciously approaching me would respond to me "requesting" to see their ID? They may high tail it out of there thinking that they were approaching a LEO. :-) (Not that I ever want to impersonate a LEO)

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"

    We announce we are armed when we openly carry.
    Eye contact and situational awareness is extemely important.


    Hope this gentleman learned that leaving your firearm in your car can be a bad thing.
    The nice urban fellas could have broken into the gentleman's vehicle and had them a nice pistola or worse....robbed, raped or murdered the gentleman and his GF.


    Wouldn't be surprised if his vehicle isn't broken into the next time it is parked overnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Called 911 and reported what exactly? That two guys were walking towards him and it made him 'uncomfortable'?
    No. The exact tactics described. The odds of that exact coordinated manuver having an innocent explanation are next to none. That was essentially a two-man single-envelopement.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No. The exact tactics described. The odds of that exact coordinated manuver having an innocent explanation are next to none. That was essentially a two-man single-envelopment.
    Alright Google has no idea what that means... can you enlighten a guy?

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Alright Google has no idea what that means... can you enlighten a guy?

    TFred
    Sorry about that. I should have realized it wouldn't be recognizeable to everybody.


    There are three basic types of infantry assault.
    • direct frontal assault
    • single-envelopment
    • double-envelopment
    Direct frontal assault is self-explanatory--troops assault the front of the enemy position.

    A single-envelopment is where one group assaults the front, and a second group assaults the side.

    A double-envelopment is where one group hits the front, another group hits the right, and another group hits the left.

    Google didn't recognize it, I guess, because the term "two-man" is not really a part of the term "single-envelopment."
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-07-2011 at 04:17 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    No. The exact tactics described. The odds of that exact coordinated manuver having an innocent explanation are next to none. That was essentially a two-man single-envelopement.
    Was their 'coordinated manuvers' illegal? What exactly should the police have done once they got there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Was their 'coordinated manuvers' illegal? What exactly should the police have done once they got there?
    Calm down a second.

    First, their coordinated manuver has such a strong implication for robbery as to approach guarantee. The likelihood of a genuinely innocent explanation for the totality of circumstances is nearly non-existent.

    The actual manuver does not need to be illegal in and of itself to justify alerting police. If actual observed illegality were the standard, there would be no such thing as RAS, nor Terry Stops.

    Police response can take, I imagine, a range of actions. Perhaps they don't come at all, focusing on higher-priority calls. Perhaps they come and take descriptions of the suspects. Perhaps while driving around later on patrol, the police come across the two and initiate a consensual encounter that ripens into RAS for a variety of reasons. Maybe even into probable cause. Perhaps the consensual encounter alerts the suspects that the police are onto them, and they had better suspend their predation for a little while. There are a number of possibilities.

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    Was their 'coordinated manuvers' illegal? What exactly should the police have done once they got there?
    Agreed. And when you tell the cops that you warned the 2 that you were armed, you have just confessed to brandishing.

    Which it seems Virginia is not real fond of..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Agreed. And when you tell the cops that you warned the 2 that you were armed, you have just confessed to brandishing.

    Which it seems Virginia is not real fond of..
    I don't recall anyone advocating telling the polic about the brandishing part. Or, were you just phrasing it that way to make a point? (a valid point with which I agree).

    ETA: Although, I wonder if it would actually be brandishing. Does not the VA statute make an exception for self-defense? This of course leads into the question about disparity of force and that sort of thing. But, for the moment, I'm just wondering if it is clearly brandishing.
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-07-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Announcing one's armed status is a good way of getting one's self killed. He'd have done better to just make eye contact and say, "How y'all doin' this evenin'?"
    Why would you say, just curious.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I don't recall anyone advocating telling the polic about the brandishing part. Or, were you just phrasing it that way to make a point? (a valid point with which I agree).

    ETA: Although, I wonder if it would actually be brandishing. Does not the VA statute make an exception for self-defense? This of course leads into the question about disparity of force and that sort of thing. But, for the moment, I'm just wondering if it is clearly brandishing.
    In any other city I might agree with Citizen but I've listened to the City Dispatchers actually laugh about such calls on the air "And he was afraid".

    Thatpart of town is extremely dangerous but getting a police response, let alone a positive response, is improbable at best.

    Sometimes it's best to quietly walk away.

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