My buddy's lesson around VCU last night.

DJEEPER said:

I had a buddy call me today. Last night on his way to his girlfriend's apartment, he was approached by 2 guys who were standing on the other side of the road, spaced way out, in the shadows of the parked cars. My buddy was walking across the street when they both started walking towards him. He is a good street smart guy, and picked up on the tactic.
Here is the kicker.... his girlfriend is not very keen on carrying guns around, so he was being polite and left it in his truck. When they started to approach, he quickly turned and ran back to his truck. He retrieved his pistol and put it on. When he came back to the area, the two guys were waiting on him. They started to approach him again, but this time he said "hold it right there, that is a bad idea for you... im carrying". they stopped and backed off saying "oh, we cool...we cool...".

I think he learned a very valuable lesson about selective carrying.....

Click to expand...

Bad Idea #1:

Running to your truck(dependent on distance and ability to leave of course), getting your gun, and than running back, sounds like a nice way to have murder charges brought against you, had lethal force been required.

--

Bad Idea #2: Not having it on him to begin with.

txzeenath said:

Bad Idea #1:

Running to your truck(dependent on distance and ability to leave of course), getting your gun, and than running back, sounds like a nice way to have murder charges brought against you, had lethal force been required.

--

Bad Idea #2: Not having it on him to begin with.

Click to expand...

Bad Idea #3: Having a girlfriend who is not very keen on firearms.... :lol:

Blk97F150 said:

Bad Idea #3: Having a girlfriend who is not very keen on firearms.... :lol:

Click to expand...

Depends on what she looks like!

txzeenath said:

Bad Idea #1:

Running to your truck(dependent on distance and ability to leave of course), getting your gun, and than running back, sounds like a nice way to have murder charges brought against you, had lethal force been required.

Click to expand...

If lethal force had been required then by definition of those words how could a murder charge be brought? When lethal force is required then he has already exhausted all other options and the situation had escalated to the point where that was all that was available for him to prevent very serious injury or death to himself.

Also, unless he told an investigator that he had ran back to get his gun how would they know? Bad guys are dead so they can't tell anyone. To someone watching out of their window, how would they know what he went back to his car for? For example ....

He has a wallet that is uncomfortable to keep in his pocket when driving so he puts it in the glovebox. Part way to his girlfriend's he realizes he left it in the car so returns to get it. He never saw his attackers until they confronted him and threatened to slice him up. He was in immediate fear of his life and outnumbered and told them to leave him alone. They did not go away, in fact they continued to approach him, so he took the only option he had left.

Fact is, the guy in the OP did the right thing for the circumstances at that time as described in order to preserve his own safety, the end result proves that because the bad guys backed down and he got to his destination in one piece.

We can all sit here and discuss, friendly or otherwise, 'what ifs'. But the only question that comes to my mind is why did he go to a known bad part of town with a gun in his car and then leave the gun in the car when he got out? If he has it with him he needs to keep it with him, if he's not going to keep it with him then he needs to leave it at home.

Manipulating facts can turn to bite you - IMHO such is a very wrong and dangerous thing to do, as is posting such a suggestion on-line.

A defensive tool is much like oxygen, you only need them when your life depends on them. Other times they are there "just in case."

Grapeshot said:

Manipulating facts can turn to bite you - IMHO such is a very wrong and dangerous thing to do, as is posting such a suggestion on-line.

A defensive tool is much like oxygen, you only need them when your life depends on them. Other times they are there "just in case."

Click to expand...

Thank you!

Blk97F150 said:

Was their 'coordinated manuvers' illegal? What exactly should the police have done once they got there?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if the maneuvers were illegal. You call the police anyway. Recognizing the tactics unfolding by the potential assailants is the same as sitting in a parking lot and watching a guy go from car to car, looking through the windows to see what is inside. No, that itself isn't illegal but it's obvious that the initial action will likely have a nefarious follow-through. When something fishy like that is going on, there's absolutely nothing wrong with inviting law enforcement come and have a little chat with somebody.

Calling the cops does several things. It removes the potential attackers from their posts, effectively disabling the trap. The next person to come along may not be as lucky as your buddy. Also, it puts on record the fact that these guys have done this. That may be important later on. Additionally, letting bad guys know that eyes are on them and assumptions made about their intentions will hopefully make them choose to move along.

Kevin108 said:

It doesn't matter if the maneuvers were illegal. You call the police anyway. Recognizing the tactics unfolding by the potential assailants is the same as sitting in a parking lot and watching a guy go from car to car, looking through the windows to see what is inside. No, that itself isn't illegal but it's obvious that the initial action will likely have a nefarious follow-through. When something fishy like that is going on, there's absolutely nothing wrong with inviting law enforcement come and have a little chat with somebody.

Calling the cops does several things. It removes the potential attackers from their posts, effectively disabling the trap. The next person to come along may not be as lucky as your buddy. Also, it puts on record the fact that these guys have done this. That may be important later on. Additionally, letting bad guys know that eyes are on them and assumptions made about their intentions will hopefully make them choose to move along.

Click to expand...

So if someone else sees you walking across the street lawfully open carrying, but perceives you to be a "potential assailant", they should call the police on you? Even though you have comitted no actual crime?

No... I think calling the police every time someone is scared of a shadow, is a bad idea... that can come back to bite the law abiding. :uhoh:

Btw, it wasn't my buddy. I'm not the OP of this thread.

Listen to your sixth sense - learn to tune it in, it will serve you well.

Grapeshot said:

Confirms my position/opinion - appreciate it.

Click to expand...

+1!

Thank you User for your response and advice. You have no idea how much your wisdom is appreciated.

I have many friends that read these pages, many of whom are only "lurkers" as they don't feel they have anything to contribute. They are 'students' of Open Carry and spend a great deal of time learning about the Constitution and the Second Amendment in particular.

Thanks again. I look forward to seeing you again in Surry.

Gunslinger said:

"It doesn't matter in the least, whether the "brandisher" actually intended to frighten the "brandishee". The mens rea required is only to behave in such a way that this would be the likely result."

This is the point that I diverge on. Hence, my hypothetical case wherein it 'does' matter as to specific intent and the determinant of 'likely result.' Decision of fact in a trial still rests on this. Ex mea sententia, needless to say. I agree completely with your closing paragraph. Cleaning contradictory or misleading language is the least priority when it should be the greatest.

Click to expand...

Gunslinger? Are you a former resident of Virginia or spent a significant amount of time in the Commonwealth?

I don't doubt your general legal knowledge, but I wonder how much time you've spent in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

One phrase comes to mind when reading your posts on the Virginia board: "You ain't from around here, are ya?" Many of us in Virginia are familiar with how local LE agencies feel about 2A. Some of them have a long way to go in their treatment of OCers (do a search on Manassas and Tony's Pizza) and some are good friends of OCers and the Constitution (York County Sheriff 'Danny' Diggs was one of the speakers in Richmond at the last Lobby Day).

Many LEOs in Virginia would charge you with Brandishing if you "upped the ante" during an arguement by pulling aside an outer garment (like a sports jacket or flannel shirt) to expose a holstered sidearm. I made reference to one incident at a mall in an earlier post and Citizen remembered that the CC/OCer was ridiculed for his action. The way VIRGINIA law is written he MAY have been charged with Brandishing.

He would likely be convicted in a jury trial if it took place in Northern Virginia, yet laughed out of court by the citizens of Wise County.

Blk97F150 said:

So if someone else sees you walking across the street lawfully open carrying, but perceives you to be a "potential assailant", they should call the police on you? Even though you have comitted no actual crime?

No... I think calling the police every time someone is scared of a shadow, is a bad idea... that can come back to bite the law abiding. :uhoh:

Btw, it wasn't my buddy. I'm not the OP of this thread.

Click to expand...

That wasn't the scenario here and you know it. If I was outside late at night lurking in the shadows with a friend, I certainly deserve to have the cops called on me.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Kevin108 said:

That wasn't the scenario here and you know it. If I was outside late at night lurking in the shadows with a friend, I certainly deserve to have the cops called on me.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to advocate calling the police on someone who hasn't broken any laws (at that point... beyond that point is nothing more then speculation).... and then complain when others do the exact same thing to law abiding gun owners/OCers....who haven't broken any law?

Nope. You need to call the cops when you feel threatened. It's their job to know how to handle the calls.

Never leave home without>>>>

Being armed you were very lucky glad it worked out well ,,,this time

Blk97F150 said:

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to advocate calling the police on someone who hasn't broken any laws (at that point... beyond that point is nothing more then speculation).... and then complain when others do the exact same thing to law abiding gun owners/OCers....who haven't broken any law?

Click to expand...

This poster is still pushing the hypocritical-for-calling-the-cops angle?

Good grief.

Note to self: Ignore Blk97F150.

Citizen said:

This poster is still pushing the hypocritical-for-calling-the-cops angle?

Good grief.

Note to self: Ignore Blk97F150.

Click to expand...

If you are that quick to call the police... then yes, please do ignore me.

Kevin108 said:

Nope. You need to call the cops when you feel threatened. It's their job to know how to handle the calls.

Click to expand...

So if other citizens "feel threatened" by a person lawfully open carrying a firearm... they should call the police too? After all... its the police's "job to know how to handle the calls".... right?

We on here try and work together to know the laws of our state. Specifically about carrying guns. Not everyone does. Like some guys are saying, if you're threatened, or scared call the cops. Also said, well, what about the little old busy body that doesn't know that carrying a gun in the open is legal. To her/him, it's scarey to have a big bearded guy walk down the street with a big gun...WAY not saying she's right, but that's what we're talking here. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Personally, I agree with Grape, Use your sixth sense. Seeing a punk walk by once, notice, but no big deal, walk by a few times, and looking around, well, now I'm paying attention. I've learned, you can't judge a book by it's cover. I raised boys in the last 25 years, and they dress for crap, and look like crimainals in my military mind, but they are good kids. I'm a biker with a beard, and I get looks when I go into 7-11 in business casual some mornings..
Forgive my ramble. Tired of the bickering over goofy crap...

Red Dawg said:

We on here try and work together to know the laws of our state. Specifically about carrying guns. Not everyone does. Like some guys are saying, if you're threatened, or scared call the cops. Also said, well, what about the little old busy body that doesn't know that carrying a gun in the open is legal. To her/him, it's scarey to have a big bearded guy walk down the street with a big gun...WAY not saying she's right, but that's what we're talking here. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Personally, I agree with Grape, Use your sixth sense. Seeing a punk walk by once, notice, but no big deal, walk by a few times, and looking around, well, now I'm paying attention. I've learned, you can't judge a book by it's cover. I raised boys in the last 25 years, and they dress for crap, and look like crimainals in my military mind, but they are good kids. I'm a biker with a beard, and I get looks when I go into 7-11 in business casual some mornings..
Forgive my ramble. Tired of the bickering over goofy crap...

Click to expand...

Pretty much +1000:dude: