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Thread: If the CC permit bill passes, does that mean no more OC?

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    Regular Member grinner's Avatar
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    If the CC permit bill passes, does that mean no more OC?

    I'm putting arguments together for discussions with my State Assembly rep about Constitutional Carry. I admit, I could read the proposed bills and answer this for myself, but I'm wondering if anyone has looked already...

    Does anything in the proposed permit bill prohibit openly carrying at least everywhere we can OC today?

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure than OC would be as legal after as it is now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    I am pretty sure than OC would be as legal after as it is now.
    I wouldn't be entirely sure about that. To my understanding, open carry is only legal right now due to a lack of options. If our State Constitution gives us the right to bear arms, and concealed carry is explicitly illegal, open carry become implicitly legal. If a mechanism for concealed carry becomes available, that logic wouldn't be applicable. In actuality, absent legislation requiring concealment, I don't think it would actually be a problem, but it's not guaranteed either.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billious View Post
    I wouldn't be entirely sure about that. To my understanding, open carry is only legal right now due to a lack of options. If our State Constitution gives us the right to bear arms, and concealed carry is explicitly illegal, open carry become implicitly legal. If a mechanism for concealed carry becomes available, that logic wouldn't be applicable. In actuality, absent legislation requiring concealment, I don't think it would actually be a problem, but it's not guaranteed either.
    Not to knit pick...but doesn't the horse go before the cart there; sonny???
    Last edited by Lurchiron; 05-07-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billious View Post
    I wouldn't be entirely sure about that. To my understanding, open carry is only legal right now due to a lack of options. If our State Constitution gives us the right to bear arms, and concealed carry is explicitly illegal, open carry become implicitly legal. If a mechanism for concealed carry becomes available, that logic wouldn't be applicable. In actuality, absent legislation requiring concealment, I don't think it would actually be a problem, but it's not guaranteed either.
    doesnt work like that, laws dont tell you what is legal, only what isnt. open carry is legal right now because we dont have a law prohibiting it. we have a law prohibiting concealed carry, so it is illegal. That law goes away, now both are legal.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    doesnt work like that, laws dont tell you what is legal, only what isnt. open carry is legal right now because we dont have a law prohibiting it. we have a law prohibiting concealed carry, so it is illegal. That law goes away, now both are legal.
    What he said.

    We don't have a law saying eating lasagna on Tuesday is legal but it is.

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    Read the LRB analysis at the beginning of the bills. It says that the bill is also provides that OC is not DC.

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    The following are my opinions and do not constitute legal adviice.

    As I see it the only way OC can become unlawful is if the State passes a bill that recognizes concealed carry as constitutional and specifically declares OC as unlawful. A 180 degree switch form where we are today. If the State passes a bill that allows concealed carry based on licensing then OC still remains lawful by default. The requirement for licensing would make concealed carry a State issued privilege. OC still would remain our only way to carry firearms as a constitutional right.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 05-08-2011 at 02:11 PM.

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    Regular Member grinner's Avatar
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    Captain Nemo, that's a very logical argument and makes perfect sense. Thank you.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    They would have to specifically ban OC.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    The only possible negative effect on OC if the shall-issue permit bill becomes the bill of choice is the signs. Right now, there's very few "No Guns" signs. Once a CC law passes, you'll see more signs. All the bills allow private property owners to "post" their property, so we'll likely see many many more signs.... especially in urban liberal areas. Those signs must be obeyed by OCers as well as CCers. If the expreriences of other states is any guide, in about 6 mos to a year, the signs will slowly dwindle away.

    But on the plus side, the laws set standards for the signs (now anything will suffice as a "No Guns" sign, as long as it says no guns). To be WI legal, a sign must be BLAZE fricken ORANGE, 8.5" X 11", and posted on each entrance. Signs NOT on building entrances, such as private parking lots or any other outdoor place, must be 11"X11", and also BLAZE ORANGE. They must contain the words "NO GUNS". A picture of a handgun with a circle/slash symbol won't do.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Another Question..

    When either bill passes, do they both eliminate the unload and case requierment for vehicle transport? Another words, if the permit bill passes, is that permit for only concealed carry or does it include not having to unlaod and case? Knowing that I would still be able to OC, would the need to have to unlaod and case be eliminated or is that tied into having the permit?

    The unload and case thing is my BIGGEST gripe....

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    When either bill passes, do they both eliminate the unload and case requierment for vehicle transport? Another words, if the permit bill passes, is that permit for only concealed carry or does it include not having to unlaod and case? Knowing that I would still be able to OC, would the need to have to unlaod and case be eliminated or is that tied into having the permit?
    The need to case is gone with or without a permit except when you will be driving within a 1000' GFSZ as you are still subject to Federal Law. You are only required to unload when transporting a firearm in or on a vehicle. What did not change was the definition of vehicle which currently includes a Red Rider wagon so you still may not hunt from a hay wagon, etc whether or not it is attached to a tractor.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 05-09-2011 at 03:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    When either bill passes, do they both eliminate the unload and case requierment for vehicle transport? Another words, if the permit bill passes, is that permit for only concealed carry or does it include not having to unlaod and case? Knowing that I would still be able to OC, would the need to have to unlaod and case be eliminated or is that tied into having the permit?

    The unload and case thing is my BIGGEST gripe....

    Outdoorsman1
    Short answer - you'll need a permit.

    Long answer... If the permit bill passes, it does not repeal 167.31 nor 941.23, but it "exempts" permit holders from both statutes. 167.31 is the "safe vehicle transport" statute, which is the current law that requires the unloading and encasing for vehicle transport. It's a civil forfeiture and not a crime. 941.23 however is a class A misdemeanor (current law banning CC), and that statute treats a firearm in a vehicle (technically even one that's empty and encased) as carrying a concealed weapon.

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