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Thread: Warning, might be stupid questions

  1. #1
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    Warning, might be stupid questions

    Here are some questions that I thought about while watching youtube videos regarding encounters with Law enforcement when open carry in public place.

    (1). Wouldn't it make sense for me to call the local law enforcement ahead of time to let them know that I will be shopping at say Walmart and I will be open carry. I figured at least the Police will be aware that someone will be shopping at Walmart open carry ahead of time in case they get a call from someone that says "Man with gun!" they would not treat it with an emergency with lights flashing and guns drawn. I know it sounds stupid, why would you tell the Police anything to exercise my rights, but just working through the reality of the situation in my head. Since I've never seen anyone open carry where I live and I am pretty sure people around here will freak out and call the Police making it sound that I was robbing the store or something.

    (2). Wouldn't make sense for me to carry my automatic pistol with the slide in the locked open position, so with a glance you can see it is unloaded. Of course only if I can find a holster that can properly carry it. The main benefit I can think of is, (1). The Police officer who will be performing the E-check will be able to see right away that my open carry is not loaded. (2). In a situation if I need to loaded with a loaded magazine it is actually a faster action to chamber a round.

    Just curious, like I've said these may be stupid questions.

    TIA

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    Here are some questions that I thought about while watching youtube videos regarding encounters with Law enforcement when open carry in public place.

    (1). Wouldn't it make sense for me to call the local law enforcement ahead of time to let them know that I will be shopping at say Walmart and I will be open carry. I figured at least the Police will be aware that someone will be shopping at Walmart open carry ahead of time in case they get a call from someone that says "Man with gun!" they would not treat it with an emergency with lights flashing and guns drawn. I know it sounds stupid, why would you tell the Police anything to exercise my rights, but just working through the reality of the situation in my head. Since I've never seen anyone open carry where I live and I am pretty sure people around here will freak out and call the Police making it sound that I was robbing the store or something.

    (2). Wouldn't make sense for me to carry my automatic pistol with the slide in the locked open position, so with a glance you can see it is unloaded. Of course only if I can find a holster that can properly carry it. The main benefit I can think of is, (1). The Police officer who will be performing the E-check will be able to see right away that my open carry is not loaded. (2). In a situation if I need to loaded with a loaded magazine it is actually a faster action to chamber a round.

    Just curious, like I've said these may be stupid questions.

    TIA
    They are not stupid questions, though I believe that they have been addressed previously.

    These are questions that most would have to answer for themselves, because there is no correct answer.

    (1). Wouldn't it make sense for me to call the local law enforcement ahead of time to let them know that... I will be open carry[ing]?

    I don't call law enforcement to inform them of my wherabouts, my physical description, and what my activites are when I intend to go shopping, go to a movie theater, dine out, or walk to excersize. After advising them of my intent to do something that is lawful and mundane as walking to a convenience store, do you think that they might conclude that I have some sort of motive for telling them about my activities? Do you also think that they, after being told of my plans, would not use the call as justification to contact me to see what, if anything might be used to compel me not to conduct myself in this lawful manner?

    You see, the act of openly carrying a holstered sidearm (or the state of being armed in any fashion) is not, and should not be an 'event'. And the less ado we make about it, the less the general public will make of it. You invite the police by telling them what you intend to do and the general public will assume that every time someone openly carries, the police show up. This gives creedence to the arguement that people who open carry waste police resources, while the reality is, police are seldom involved when someone open carries.

    This is one of the reasons I discourage mass events that chum the debate with controversy and conflict with anti-gun groups like the Brady Campaign. It gives them a forum that they would not otherwise have, and by engaging them on their level and on what they believe is their turf puts us at a disadvantage.

    (2). Wouldn't make sense for me to carry my automatic pistol with the slide in the locked open position, so with a glance you can see it is unloaded?

    If you are comfortable with everyone being able to see that your firearm is unloaded and are not bothered by your firearm being exposed to the elements and contaminants, I suppose that it would make sense for you.

    You should not, however, expect keeping your firearm in that state of readiness to keep the police from seizing it to inspect loaded condition or search the serial number for stolen/registration.

    I feel that there is some benefit to maintaining at least the illusion that the firearm could be loaded, with an empty magazine inserted (where appropriate by law). This doesnt give passers by a full look at a completely inert weapon and raise the question of the utility of an unloaded firearm. It also creates doubt in a criminals mind as to whether it can be employed as a lethal deterrent.
    Last edited by ConditionThree; 05-09-2011 at 01:14 AM. Reason: correct intended meaning
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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    There is a vid of someone calling the cops on themselves. They don't care much. Be careful how you go about this. I have heard there may have been a case filled against someone that called the cops on themselves.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOoMk...e_gdata_player

    The slide thing is personal preference. I have practiced both ways. My Blackhawk serpa holster allows this type of carry but on a 1911 it makes hard to get a good grip on the gun. Try it out.

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    I did watch the video prior, but I think it served a different purpose.

    He pretended / faked as a concerned caller.

    My intent would be to make myself known to the Police, letting them know that I will be walking in public places and open carry. Give them specific time and places ahead of time. This way the dispatcher would be prepared when if they get a call for "A man with a gun". Sort of take away the "shocking" factor when they receive the call. I understand that regardless the Police may still come out to e-check me anyways, but I think this will avoid a lot of psychological drama associated to the whole process, after all Police officer are still people and do get "worked up" whenever they get a 911 call of unknown situation.

    I was thinking of this idea because I noticed from many youtube videos that a lot of Police officers was very calm and causal at most open carry encounters and most don't even bother to perform an E-check at open carry citizens that they have encountered before.

    ConditionThree - I agree with you that open carry should not be treated as an "event", but unfortunately the citizens of our society today are not accustomed to the sight of someone open carry and would make a big deal of it by dialing 911. If one day 50% of citizens open carry then this I would agree would become a normal everyday event treated with normalcy.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Can you explain why you are OC-ing if you are so concerned about doing it that you intend to put yourself on the police "radar" when going to a store?

    Are you planning to call them every time you go into a store?

  6. #6
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    I did watch the video prior, but I think it served a different purpose.

    He pretended / faked as a concerned caller.

    My intent would be to make myself known to the Police, letting them know that I will be walking in public places and open carry. Give them specific time and places ahead of time. This way the dispatcher would be prepared when if they get a call for "A man with a gun". Sort of take away the "shocking" factor when they receive the call. I understand that regardless the Police may still come out to e-check me anyways, but I think this will avoid a lot of psychological drama associated to the whole process, after all Police officer are still people and do get "worked up" whenever they get a 911 call of unknown situation.

    I was thinking of this idea because I noticed from many youtube videos that a lot of Police officers was very calm and causal at most open carry encounters and most don't even bother to perform an E-check at open carry citizens that they have encountered before.

    ConditionThree - I agree with you that open carry should not be treated as an "event", but unfortunately the citizens of our society today are not accustomed to the sight of someone open carry and would make a big deal of it by dialing 911. If one day 50% of citizens open carry then this I would agree would become a normal everyday event treated with normalcy.
    First, as it relates to calls received by police dispatch; There is no such thing as 'shocking'. Dispatchers recieve calls about everything from dog bites, traffic accidents, to reports of child molestation, and homocides. What you (and all of us) really want is for dispatch to know what the law says and be trained in a manner that would help them determine if a police response is necessary.

    Regardless of whether you call them to identify yourself or someone else calls them to report your whereabouts, they will probably contact officers on patrol to seek you out.

    So, when given the choice of calling the police and ensuring some kind of contact and the possibility that someone else may call to report lawful behaviour- I will take the latter option, because in most cases, open carry does not result in multiple reports to 911, even when the carrier is alone.

    If you really would like the police to know who you are, you could have a passport photo taken and attached to a personal dossier which would include your full name, birth date, street and mailing address, your social security number, your California drivers license number, the serial number of all the firearms you intend to carry, your place of employment, your work address, you supervisors name and phone number, contact information for your nearest living relative who does not live with you, your medical insurance carrier and how many pets you have.

    Or you could open carry in your community, and meet them one on one in the event that someone calls to report your lawful activity, where they could learn all that while they (e) check you, like they would when you called them to tell them what you were up to.

    Believe me, I don't discount your anxiety about having a police encounter, but what you need to realize is that the longer you partake in this activity the more likely it is to occur and the more frequently police encounters occur, the less anxious it will be for you -- and the more likely it will be that the officers and dispatch will get the training that they need. This is that 'calm' vibe you were picking up in the videos- That's normalization in progress.
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    ConditionThree - Thank you for the good explanation.

    OC for me would be the purpose of -

    Exercising my constitution rights, keep the OC alive and legal. I believe if more people who exercise this action the less likely it will be banned or taken away as one our legal rights.

    Protection, as I've noticed crime rate have gone through the roof compared to 6 month ago. And I don't believe things will get any better anytime soon.

    However with that said this is what I have issues with from watch bunch of youtube videos on OC encounters.

    (1). Not sure why most OC citizens are so harsh on the Police officer. Personally I would just be, oh Hi officer, you want to e-check me? Sure here you go. You want to see an ID, sure here you do. I don't have anything to hide, nor is wanted by law.
    I know most of them in the video were trying to make a statement about their rights and are offended that the officer of the law knew so little of it. But I would have conducted myself in a different manner, like show them my ID but in the same time explaining to them that I didn't need to, but out of respect for their job I complied.

    (2). Personally I really don't like attention, especially in public places. I prefer as low key as possible. I understand that by exercising my OC rights I would most likely put myself in that situation. But I figure (theoretically speaking) if I let the Police know ahead of time, they may not bother come out to e-check me. (Might be wishful thinking on my part). Personally I would feel very embarrassed if I was surrounded by Police in a public place.

    So that's why I brought up the idea of calling the police first before showing up in a public place with a sidearm. Was curious if anyone had done this and what the results were.

    BTW, my personal feeling for law enforcement is neutral. However I do hate them for writing me speeding tickets.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    ConditionThree - Thank you for the good explanation.

    OC for me would be the purpose of -

    Exercising my constitution rights, keep the OC alive and legal. I believe if more people who exercise this action the less likely it will be banned or taken away as one our legal rights.

    Protection, as I've noticed crime rate have gone through the roof compared to 6 month ago. And I don't believe things will get any better anytime soon.

    However with that said this is what I have issues with from watch bunch of youtube videos on OC encounters.

    (1). Not sure why most OC citizens are so harsh on the Police officer. Personally I would just be, oh Hi officer, you want to e-check me? Sure here you go. You want to see an ID, sure here you do. I don't have anything to hide, nor is wanted by law.
    I know most of them in the video were trying to make a statement about their rights and are offended that the officer of the law knew so little of it. But I would have conducted myself in a different manner, like show them my ID but in the same time explaining to them that I didn't need to, but out of respect for their job I complied.

    (2). Personally I really don't like attention, especially in public places. I prefer as low key as possible. I understand that by exercising my OC rights I would most likely put myself in that situation. But I figure (theoretically speaking) if I let the Police know ahead of time, they may not bother come out to e-check me. (Might be wishful thinking on my part). Personally I would feel very embarrassed if I was surrounded by Police in a public place.

    So that's why I brought up the idea of calling the police first before showing up in a public place with a sidearm. Was curious if anyone had done this and what the results were.

    BTW, my personal feeling for law enforcement is neutral. However I do hate them for writing me speeding tickets.
    Cops in Kalifornia have the choice to "NOT" hassle honest citizens exercising what there is of their 2A rights in the PDR. Why is the assumption the pistol "may" be loaded the one they make time and again? The answer should be obvious: Cop Captain to Decker in "Blade Runner": "If you're not a cop, you're one of the little people." In Kalifornia, you are a subject. Therefore, your rights are what they allow you, period. "Being surrounded by police in a public place" in Kalifornia when you have violated no laws is proof positive of this.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 05-09-2011 at 02:33 PM.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    ConditionThree - Thank you for the good explanation.

    OC for me would be the purpose of -

    Exercising my constitution rights, keep the OC alive and legal. I believe if more people who exercise this action the less likely it will be banned or taken away as one our legal rights.

    Protection, as I've noticed crime rate have gone through the roof compared to 6 month ago. And I don't believe things will get any better anytime soon.

    However with that said this is what I have issues with from watch bunch of youtube videos on OC encounters.

    (1). Not sure why most OC citizens are so harsh on the Police officer. Personally I would just be, oh Hi officer, you want to e-check me? Sure here you go. You want to see an ID, sure here you do. I don't have anything to hide, nor is wanted by law.
    I know most of them in the video were trying to make a statement about their rights and are offended that the officer of the law knew so little of it. But I would have conducted myself in a different manner, like show them my ID but in the same time explaining to them that I didn't need to, but out of respect for their job I complied.

    (2). Personally I really don't like attention, especially in public places. I prefer as low key as possible. I understand that by exercising my OC rights I would most likely put myself in that situation. But I figure (theoretically speaking) if I let the Police know ahead of time, they may not bother come out to e-check me. (Might be wishful thinking on my part). Personally I would feel very embarrassed if I was surrounded by Police in a public place.

    So that's why I brought up the idea of calling the police first before showing up in a public place with a sidearm. Was curious if anyone had done this and what the results were.

    BTW, my personal feeling for law enforcement is neutral. However I do hate them for writing me speeding tickets.
    When you are pulled over do you volunteer to police officers that they search your car too?

    The fact that an officer is even bothering with the e-check on you shows that they are not supporters of our Constitutional rights and are trying to make a case to arrest you.

    If they thought you were in compliance with the law why would they check? The only purpose of the check is to see if you are in violation of CA law and to arrest and charge you with violation of the law.

    Further, if we all do not hold and protect what few rights we do have left in CA and give them up so easily then we will continue to lose them. Soon it will no longer be an option to refuse to identify yourself or not be searched for no reason.

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    I think a lot of e-checks and harassment has to do with OC not commonly practiced.

    The society have a tendency to freak out when things are displayed out of ordinary.

    Which explains why so many rubber neckers when there is a traffic accident.

    Regardless how common gun ownership is in the US it is still being viewed by majority of Americans as a forbidden item, or an items that's "evil".

    The only way for everyone to freely accept OC is the frequency and number of people that will be practicing OC. Honestly the only way I see this happening anytime soon would be if we experienced some sort major social disorder, for example like the collapse of the US Dollar, or the dollar being taken off the world reserve status, a major earthquake or natural disaster.

    Which brings up another question, if Marshall law was declared can we still OC? Or would Marshall law override the consit.?
    Last edited by MrPcar; 05-09-2011 at 03:52 PM.

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    You attitude of giving info to LEO because you have nothing to hide is wrong and could be very bad in practice.

    You need to search YouTube for "don't talk to cops"

    You should watch this vid until it sinks in.

    Your statement is probably due to years of indoctrination.

    You have NOTHING to gain and EVERY thing to loose when it comes to talking to LEO.

    LEO have a job to do. It is not to protect you and serve you. It is to gather evidence against you and make arrests.

    What you are seeing in the vids on YouTube are freedom and liberty minded individuals standing there ground when it comes to personal rights. The reason it appears to be an issue in the videos is because most people do not understand what freedom and liberty in this country mean. Further more you see an issue because LEO are use to dealing with people with your attitude. People willing to rollover and beg. Most LEO do not go to work each day thinking about how they can preserve and defend the constitution. They see it as an object that stands in there way of doing there job. And it DOSE! For a very good reason.

    To see change not only with the 2ndA but freedom and liberty as a whole WE THE PEOPLE need to learn and stand up for our rights DAILY. But sadly most people are like you and are willing to give up most if not all of there rights just to make things "easy".

    As for being neutral about LEO. I'm not neutral. I'm for freedom and liberty ONLY. If a LEO is on the same side great if not look out. I'm going to stand my ground.

    Something to think about. Don't take this as a personal attack. It's just to get you thinking.

    Carry on.

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    James I did not look at it as a personal attack, in matter of fact I appreciate the time you took to type the response.

    I've been watching hours of youtube video on this subject.
    Last edited by MrPcar; 05-09-2011 at 05:51 PM.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    James I did not look at it as a personal attack, in matter of fact I appreciate the time you took to type the response.

    I've been watching hours of youtube video on this subject.
    It's actually Ryan you are responding to. 'James' is someone he quoted.

    Here is the "Flex Your Rights" video called 'Busted: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    Regardless of whether or not you have anything to hide from police, they are not talking to you to be friendly or social. They are employed as the eyes, ears, hands and feet of the state- some execute their duties with the Constitution in their heart and liberty on their mind, others are members of an exclusive fraternity determined to impose their authority upon governed subjects.

    We cannot assume that the officer or deputy in front of us is of the temperment to support libertarian ideals in the same way we do. The litmus test in determining where they stand is to assert your right to remain silent, and not to consent to any 4th amendment violations. Allowing an officer or deputy to freely interrogate you or search you and your property because you have nothing to hide reinforces the authoritarian's expectation that they govern the citizen and the citizen is required to be submissive to their demands. The issue is that when you help them do their job, you may be handing them the rope to hang you with.
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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Found the link i was talking about.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7N...e_gdata_player



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    Ryan,

    Sorry about the mix up.

    I think there are all different kind of LEO, some are ********, some are nice just like every thing else in our society.

    I think if I was a LEO I would be worried when I see an everyday citizen armed with a sidearm. Because the first thing that would come in my mind would be "I wonder if this ******* would grab his gun out and shoot me?" Sort of like the Tombstone situation. Unfortunately for most people that's how they think. Out of curiosity today, I asked my co-workers if they knew of the open carry law, and told them that I was interested in participating in this practice. They all told me "Don't shoot me!" Although it was more in a joking manner, but it gives you an idea how they feel about guns. Some immediately said "You don't need guns!" Basically I was completely out numbered. Minutes later I went down to our production department and talked to the employees there about the open carry, none of them knew about it and thought it was super cool and want to find out more about it. BTW, I work for a pharmaceutical manufacturer, which explains the conservative views regarding firearms from the office staff. Ironically when FDA comes for their yearly audit an armed officer is always present.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    (1). Wouldn't it make sense for me to call the local law enforcement ahead of time to let them know that I will be shopping at say Walmart and I will be open carry. I figured at least the Police will be aware that someone will be shopping at Walmart open carry ahead of time in case they get a call from someone that says "Man with gun!" they would not treat it with an emergency with lights flashing and guns drawn. I know it sounds stupid, why would you tell the Police anything to exercise my rights, but just working through the reality of the situation in my head. Since I've never seen anyone open carry where I live and I am pretty sure people around here will freak out and call the Police making it sound that I was robbing the store or something.
    I have instead done something more pro active, I actually contacted a senior chief in charge of public relations and in this case Open Carry lead officer. Made an appointment and had a nice long sit down chat in their office about the law, penal codes, the departments training, and current events involving court cases. I wanted to make sure the person in charge knew I was knowledgeable, law abiding, and not afraid to practice my rights and would of course be UOC'ing. I also got their business card, asked them to sign it, and carry it with me when I UOC in place of my ID (sterile carry).

    While not calling in before carrying, it does set a precedent for the supervisor of all the officers, encourages updating training, and gives me a reference to talk to officers about when e checked. Being able to refer to a patrol officers supervising chief or captain has given me an ability to affect positively interactions.

    Although I havent been proned out yet, and had my wallet seized, the only thing in the wallet besides money is signed business cards of senior LEO supervisors. My hope is it may change the nature of the LE stop and detain, and perhaps chill out an overzealous officer.
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    Since my initial post I have interviewed and interacted with several LEO and civilians. Basically here is what boils down to:

    They all hate and dislike the idea normal every citizen that carry guns out in the public. They argument is that the person carrying the sidearm may not be properly training, and may post more danger than someone who is not carrying a gun.

    My immediate reply was, how do you know who's carrying concealed who's not?

    The answer was "I prefer not to know"

    Which was food for thought for me, I guess in our society now days we all know we all will be butchered one way or another. So people take a not knowing approach leave it up to when they time's up is a better approach.

    Which leads to my next question... Are we still alive? Or are we bunch of batteries like described in the movie "Matrix"

    ?

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    While I can agree on how Firemark handles LEO before UOCing in a certain area, I can't agree with notifying LEO every time you UOC.

    Did you inform LEO before you posted on this forum? Your freedom of speech is just as much a right as your second amendment right.

    Do you call LEO before you go to Church and let them know where, what time, how long etc? Your freedom of religion is just as much a right as your second amendment right.

    What I'm saying is that i will never notify our "servants" (remember to protect and serve) that i intend to do something that is not only legal but more importantly is our God given right.

    But that's just my $.02
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    I don't see the need to call police to tell them you are doing something lawful. Would you call them to tell them you are painting your house? How about fixing your car?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    I understand the point about not telling the LEO about my everyday "normal" activities. The bottom line is regardless how legal it is to open carry it is not "viewed" as a "normal" everyday behavior or activity. My sole and only purpose for thinking to call ahead is to avoid being bothered by any LEO when I am out about. I was just curious if anyone had done this and have successfully avoided any LEO from showing up to E-check you while open carry during normal everyday activity like going to Walmart or Target.

    Since learning of the open carry law I've asked every person around me if they knew of this law, including armed security guards. So far not a single person thought it was legal and all thought I was crazy to even say that.

    The mall security guard even told me that if he saw anyone wearing a firearm he would immediately pull his gun and seize that person to detain them until the police show up. I told him that he better check with the rules first before he makes a fool out of himself .....

    On the flip side, several of my gun fanatic friends were very happy to learn about the open carry and soon will be part of this movement.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    I understand the point about not telling the LEO about my everyday "normal" activities. The bottom line is regardless how legal it is to open carry it is not "viewed" as a "normal" everyday behavior or activity. My sole and only purpose for thinking to call ahead is to avoid being bothered by any LEO when I am out about. I was just curious if anyone had done this and have successfully avoided any LEO from showing up to E-check you while open carry during normal everyday activity like going to Walmart or Target.

    Since learning of the open carry law I've asked every person around me if they knew of this law, including armed security guards. So far not a single person thought it was legal and all thought I was crazy to even say that.

    The mall security guard even told me that if he saw anyone wearing a firearm he would immediately pull his gun and seize that person to detain them until the police show up. I told him that he better check with the rules first before he makes a fool out of himself .....

    On the flip side, several of my gun fanatic friends were very happy to learn about the open carry and soon will be part of this movement.
    We deal with the same carry questions here in WI. Many people do not know OC is legal. Since our AG (van Hollen) memo put out two years ago about OC in itself is not grounds for a Terry Stop, we've still be harassed by police from time to time. We've worked very hard to get our rights restored in this state. Right now, with the help of Wisconsin Carry, Inc, all of its members, and organizing with other gun rights groups in WI, we've forced the GOP change its stance from permitted carry to permitless carry. Yesterday, there were hearings for both a permit system and Constitutional Carry, with most people speaking for Constitutional Carry. We've done this all in two short years! Not many people would have thought we'd be this far beginning of last year, but we've worked hard for it, so hopefully we'll have Constitutional Carry in WI this year!

    Continue to work hard in CA and you'd be surprised at what can happen!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  22. #22
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=MrPcar;1526881]Ryan,

    Sorry about the mix up.

    I think there are all different kind of LEO, some are ********, some are nice just like every thing else in our society.

    I think if I was a LEO I would be worried when I see an everyday citizen armed with a sidearm. Because the first thing that would come in my mind would be "I wonder if this ******* would grab his gun out and shoot me?"


    The mall security guard even told me that if he saw anyone wearing a firearm he would immediately pull his gun and seize that person to detain them until the police show up. I told him that he better check with the rules first before he makes a fool out of himself .....


    /QUOTE]

    All LEO are the same in regards to there job. They are to gather evidence to make an arrest and put you behind bars. The nice ones are more dangerous because a citizen may let there guard down thinking the LEO is a good guy. Wrong! Same job in the end you will be behind bars.

    Your comment being worried about geting shot is due to a false sense of security most people have. You never had or ever will have a guarantee of security. Police are not safe from harm nor the normal citizen. I find it sad that anyone can even think like this. How would you feel if after you called in to the LEO about you UOC an officer let down his gaurd when contacting an armed individual and was executed?

    As to the mall cop. This just shows the stupidity of any requirement of "training" to carry a firearm. It is a natural right to defend ones life and guns are the best tool. Having mandatory "training" is an infringement on that right with the same false assumption that we can all be safe.


    This is just my thoughts and not targeting you. Keep the questions and ideas coming. Provoke thought I may learn something or see a view I have never thought about. Were all on the same team. Team liberty!



    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  23. #23
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    can someone please point me to a link where I can find a map where OC is not allowed in Southern California? Or there is no restriction except school, airport, post office etc

    Thanks

  24. #24
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    can someone please point me to a link where I can find a map where OC is not allowed in Southern California? Or there is no restriction except school, airport, post office etc

    Thanks
    The only map I know of would be posted at South Bay Open Carry.

    http://southbayopencarry.org/maps/

    Be careful having these on your person. Part of the GFSZ crime is knowing your in a school zone. Always do your own research. Ignorance is no defense.


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  25. #25
    Activist Member Joshua Costa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPcar View Post
    can someone please point me to a link where I can find a map where OC is not allowed in Southern California? Or there is no restriction except school, airport, post office etc

    Thanks
    The best way I have found to incorporate OC in my daily life is have a list of safe places. I know the target next to my house is safe I know a best buy near by is safe and so on.

    When ever I want to broaden my scope of Open carry I do a bunch of research (google schools and a zip code to get you started. then scope the area out and look for schools.) Once I'm sure the coast is clear I add that new location to my list and feel confident that if I need gas I have a list of safe gas stations, or if I need milk I can hit up Target ect... This method for me is the best way to protect myself and my family while still conforming to unconstitutional laws that the California and federal law makers have given us.

    OC is half the battle the other half is happening in Sacramento and the courts.

    Rights are given to free men by God (Alah, innate human rights, insert your belief here). A government by the people can not take away those rights.
    "I do not love the sword for its gleam, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory; I love only what they protect."
    J.R.R. Tolkien

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