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Thread: .460R -yes,no? or overkill?

  1. #1
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    .460R -yes,no? or overkill?

    As a potential home-defense sidearm? Pref.on a 1911 platform.
    Anyone out there with any hands-on that can give some insights pro or con?
    On paper, the ballistics look interesting (and yes, I know about the alt.s 10mm.etc),but Im not seeing much real-world test results of the round itself, beyond promotional items.

    As a defensive round,does one consider it a nice step up for the .45 folks? Or is it overkill-like using a .454 on 2-legged hazards? (and in the U.S.A. anything less than a run-away garbage truck )

    Also, anyone with any experience with the Mechtech carbine uppers in general? Im thinking if .460 works as advertised, that could make one heck of a pistol-caliber/1911-based carbine for relatively few $$...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    .460 Rowland - it's already been done and can normally still fire .45 ACP.
    http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/pro...-Rowland-Rocks

    If i ever win the lottery, this is on my list to do.
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    Wow. Liking it more the more I hear of it..Any more out there? Anyone with hands-on with a conversion?

    Also,why lottery? You could pick up a RIA for around $300-400, the brownell's kit for $300+ the ammo-online at least, and as I saw recently at Gander, is about the same $$ as standard .45 acp. Accesorizing/customizing would take you a bit over that,but..

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Wow. Liking it more the more I hear of it..Any more out there? Anyone with hands-on with a conversion?

    Also,why lottery? You could pick up a RIA for around $300-400, the brownell's kit for $300+ the ammo-online at least, and as I saw recently at Gander, is about the same $$ as standard .45 acp. Accesorizing/customizing would take you a bit over that,but..
    That is just PART of what is on my wish list. Believe me when I say it would take lottery winnings to begin to satisfy some of my vices.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Ah..lol. G is for Gatling Gun....

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    Regular Member stickbow95's Avatar
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    I would be careful about firing .45ACP from a .460 Rowland barrel. The shorter ACP case would not headspace on the case mouth. It would be held by the extractor only, which would lead to unreliable ignition.

    As far as the .460 Rowland as a defensive round, It would be effective to say the least. With the lighter bullets intended for it, over-penetration should not be too horrible.
    I don't own one, but I do own and shoot enough calibers that are comparable in performance to have a pretty good idea of actual performance. It would not be as overkill as a .454 Casull, not even close. Also, despite advertising, it is not a .44 Mag either, it's close, but not with heavier weight, (320gr+) and in my opinion, proper weight, bullets. I do think it is an excellent idea, and I plan on building a Fusion 1911 in .460.

    However, imho, the .45ACP is plenty effective. The .460 is aimed more at hunters that want an autoloader that doesn't weigh as much as a small sedan (Desert Eagle)

    In the end it all comes down to what you want. If a .460 floats your boat, thats a good enough excuse.
    Last edited by stickbow95; 05-08-2011 at 06:30 PM.

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    Cool. good points, and much along what I was thinking..
    Mostly my consideration for a possible .460 is home defensive-and the prev. mentioned double-duty vs. the odd bear, should that come up again.

    And Fusion-that's who I was trying to think of earlier- they make a hi-cap frame, if Im not mistaken? Might make for a good pairing with the CCU from Mech...hmmmmm

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    Who lives near you and how many 4 legged carnivores are neighbors?

    I would say as a standard self defense gun/round the .460 rowland is overkill if you live in a densely populated area. I chose .45acp as a slower larger bullet thinking that overpenetration (including walls of houses) would be minimized and larger bullets make larger wounds, etc.

    Living in the burbs I don't want to use a rifle as home defense so that I don't shoot through a couple neighbors houses. (They tend to get upset) 45acp was a good choice and I have a KRISS carbine with 30round mags to complement my shotgun and pistols. If the SHTF my rifles will come out though. (I know that even pistol rounds can go through several walls but that is better than several houses)

    Getting back to where you live and what you are defending against, if you live in the country and don't have to worry about rounds penetrating neighbors (or their houses) I would consider the 460 for self defense. Bears or other wildlife are definitely a consideration. But just for everyday carry in the city/burbs I think it is overkill just as a 44magnum is. I am not saying that they aren't cool (I prefer 44magnums) but not the optimal solution in that scenario.

    From what I saw the conversion kits start around $300 so they aren't all that expensive. If you have a Colt 1911 you could convert it to .460 when hiking in the woods and convert it back to 45acp when strolling in society. Best of both worlds. :-)

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    Im in a fairly rural area for the most part (edge of is becomming 'burb/sub-division about 1/4 mi. away). Reasonably spread out. Houses arent close enough together to worry about penetration. Avg. field of fire extend to about 75m most directions.
    Bear have recently become a concern (other thread,but had one in my yard few nights back-came to within 30ft), large boar becoming frequent, and -very rarely seen-often heard, coyote.
    Primary concern is still human,bear remote secondary issue. But it made me think that night,holding my .45, about if I'd had to shoot, would it have been enough?
    I know full well that .45acp is just about perfect/optimum for human targets...but bear?..

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    My opinion: you should do it. But I was the one who suggested a .500 s&w in the other thread.

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    Well my concern is potential dangerous game, not run-away freight trains lol

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I <3 my $300 .460 Rowland drop-in kit.

    But I <3 my 10mm (g20) more.

    Factory ammo for both tends to be loaded very light. Same goes for .38 super. If you own those and you don't roll your own, you're better off not owning them, from a purely self-defense perspective.

    I've bought white box .357sig that wouldn't even cycle the slide reliably... Not reloads.
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    Well if I were to decide to go this route, I'd likely go with Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon anyway. then tend to load hot,if anything.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Im in a fairly rural area for the most part (edge of is becomming 'burb/sub-division about 1/4 mi. away). Reasonably spread out. Houses arent close enough together to worry about penetration. Avg. field of fire extend to about 75m most directions.
    Bear have recently become a concern (other thread,but had one in my yard few nights back-came to within 30ft), large boar becoming frequent, and -very rarely seen-often heard, coyote.
    Primary concern is still human,bear remote secondary issue. But it made me think that night,holding my .45, about if I'd had to shoot, would it have been enough?
    I know full well that .45acp is just about perfect/optimum for human targets...but bear?..
    As for the 4-legged ones; buy a rifle. Handgun is the wrong tool for that job. Hell, handguns are always the wrong tool for the job, but we've had this conversation... :-p

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    Last edited by ixtow; 05-10-2011 at 07:53 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Ya,but Im rarely schlepping around the yard with a rifle slung. Gets a bit clunky doing day-day stuff around the yard and such.
    But-half my consideration of the .460 was in building up one of the MechTech carbines for it-on the 1911 frame. Carbine=pistol cal. more meets my needs/ranges w.out quiet as much concern about neighbors further downrange, than say a 7.62 round headed their way.
    Last edited by j4l; 05-10-2011 at 08:03 PM.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Overkill is kind of oxymoronic. You can't kill an assailant too dead. The more power the better. This is why I'm a big advocate of .460. (Though I do agree with the above on over penetration)

    But factor in rapid and volumous fire into the equation as well. You may or may not be more deadly with 18 rounds of 9mm than 9 rounds of 460, it all depends on your shooting capabilities and hand size. Power is very important, but remember that even a 12 gauge with high performance slugs isn't a guaranteed stopper.

    I don't often quote Massad Ayoob because I'm not much of a fan of his, but he did say something pretty smart in regards to caliber selection and ballistic qualities. "Nothing means everything, but everything means something".

    Don't obsess over individual details, but instead try to figure out for sure what gun and caliber work for you. You need a system that works, not just the most power possible.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    All the .460s I've shot had compensator that reduced the recoil below that of the original .45acp. I could pop off rounds pretty fast an accurate with it. Well... Accurate for me... :-p
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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