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Thread: McDonnell finalizes CC and OC in State Forests, effective 7/7/11

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    McDonnell finalizes CC and OC in State Forests, effective 7/7/11

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6750

    Virginia: Governor McDonnell Confirms Changes to Allow Lawful Carry of a Firearm in State Forests!

    Sunday, May 08, 2011

    On May 6, Governor Robert F. McDonnell approved changes to the Virginia Department of Forestry’s Virginia State Forest Regulation 4VAC10-30-170. The approved changes went into immediate effect.

    The changes will permit law-abiding Virginians to carry a firearm in State Forests. These changes now allow for both the lawful carrying of concealed firearms by those who possess a concealed carry permit, as well as open carrying for anyone in lawful possession of a firearm.

    The new language to the Administrative Code is below:

    4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, firearms, etc.

    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance. This regulation shall not apply to the lawful carrying of firearms and firearm ammunition.

    Please contact Governor McDonnell by e-mail and thank him for improving Virginia’s regulatory environment for lawful firearm owners!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Yep! Been in the works for a while and another delay was considered.

    There's no excuse for it taking this long and I hope no one pats McDonnell on the back for tossing another used bone our way.

    About the kindest thing I can say is..."About Time Judas"!
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-08-2011 at 09:10 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    What about all of the other state agencies?

    At the rate of one every 2 years, it'll take over a hundred years.
    http://www.agencydirectory.virginia.gov/

    Yep our 2A rights are important to Gov. Bob.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Time to cross of yet another line item from the OC cards. I think I've seen 4 or 5 become irrelevant in the time that I've been handing them out.
    Last edited by t33j; 05-08-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Time to cross of yet another line item from the OC cards. I think I've seen 4 or 5 become irrelevant in the time that I've been handing them out.
    What GS said TJ.

    It's time for Bob to step up to the plate and knock all the state agencies out of the game.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    What GS said TJ.

    It's time for Bob to step up to the plate and knock all the state agencies out of the game.
    Oh yes for sure. Just commenting that I like the trend. Only one or two were Bob's doing...
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SNIP At the rate of one every 2 years, it'll take over a hundred years.
    http://www.agencydirectory.virginia.gov/
    Good, lord! When the directory says "pick a letter" and offers every letter of the alphabet, you know there is too damm much bureaucracy. Good, grief.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Time to cross of yet another line item from the OC cards. I think I've seen 4 or 5 become irrelevant in the time that I've been handing them out.
    yep
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hope that the NRA is right. Have not seen any other news releases/cites and
    http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/views...m?stageid=5828
    shows it not to be finalized yet - no effective date either.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Hope that the NRA is right. Have not seen any other news releases/cites and
    http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/views...m?stageid=5828
    shows it not to be finalized yet - no effective date either.
    I hope so too Grape...because Philip just sent out an alert that said it was.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I hope so too Grape...because Philip just sent out an alert that said it was.
    Hmmmm...Philip says the official word is it will be effective soon and that another gun rights group is saying it's effective now.

    I'll go with Philip.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Hmmmm...Philip says the official word is it will be effective soon and that another gun rights group is saying it's effective now.

    I'll go with Philip.
    And the word, according to Phillip is: "... the effective date for open and concealed carry in State Forests is July 7th, 2011. I would not encourage you to assume that the new regulation is effective immediately."

    I seem to recall a similar directive that affected OC/CC while on DGIF WMAs, but I can't find any reference. Does anyone else remember this?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Exclamation How many public comment periods do they need? Once more into the breach!

    http://townhall.virginia.gov/L/views...m?stageid=5828

    Final Stage
    Changes to Text No changes have been made to the text since the proposed stage was last published in the Register.
    Exempt from APA No, this stage/action is subject to article 2 of the Administrative Process Act and the standard executive branch review process.
    DPB Review Submitted on 4/4/2011

    Review Completed: 4/18/2011 DPB's policy memo is "Governor's Confidential Working Papers"
    Secretary Review Review Completed: 4/22/2011

    Result: Approved

    Governor's Review Review Completed: 5/6/2011

    Result: Approved

    Virginia Registrar Submitted on 5/9/2011

    The Virginia Register of Regulations

    Will be published on 6/6/2011 Volume: 27 Issue: 20
    Final Adoption Period A public comment forum will open on 6/6/2011 and remain open through 7/6/2011
    Effective Date 7/7/2011
    According to ^^ it aint final till it's final, and that seems to depend on public comments. Mark your calendars for the day to start submitting comments.

    stay safe.

    Folks, we need to get the comments in to them as soon as they open the comment period.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    NRA has released an update with the July 7th date...

    Roscoe

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    This does not make it legal to carry in National Forrests like George Wahington National Forrest, right? We are still stuck with only being able to carry there during hunting season? Is this on the agenda to get fixed?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    This does not make it legal to carry in National Forrests like George Wahington National Forrest, right? We are still stuck with only being able to carry there during hunting season? Is this on the agenda to get fixed?
    Correct.

    I don't know but it should be. National Forests definitely make up the majority of national lands in VA, and probably make up the majority of all park/forest/WMA lands in VA.
    Last edited by t33j; 05-10-2011 at 11:59 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Correct.

    I don't know but it should be. National Forests definitely make up the majority of national lands in VA, and probably make up the majority of all park/forest/WMA lands in VA.
    I'm afraid that's a good deal in the future. I was talking to Philip about WMA's tonight and that's on the agenda....Federal land takes a little more leverage though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm afraid that's a good deal in the future. I was talking to Philip about WMA's tonight and that's on the agenda....Federal land takes a little more leverage though.
    It is ridiculous that we can carry in a National Park in Virginia at any time, but only during hunting season in a National Forrest in Virginia. We need a common standard for the whole state.
    Last edited by Jonesy; 05-11-2011 at 12:25 AM.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm afraid that's a good deal in the future. I was talking to Philip about WMA's tonight and that's on the agenda....Federal land takes a little more leverage though.
    Pretty sure we're still dealing with DGIF though.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Pretty sure we're still dealing with DGIF though.
    I'm not sure we've even started dealing with DGIF TJ. They own the WMA's and because of the multistate hunting agreement which includes the National Forests, it's going to be a tough fight to change them.

    After that, we can go after National Forests but that will be akin to changing the National Parks and I don't see a Credit Card bill to attach it to.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    I guess I was focused more on the fact that it's not strictly speaking a federal problem. Here's where I'm getting it:

    36 CFR Part 261-Prohibitions. Subpart A. General Prohibitions. Section 261.8. Fish and Wildlife.
    The following are prohibited to the extent Federal or State law is violated:
    (a) Hunting, trapping, fishing, catching, molesting, killing or having in possession any kind of wild animal, bird, or fish, or taking the eggs of any such bird.
    (b) Possessing a firearm or other implement designed to discharge a missile capable of destroying animal life.

    Ok fine let's check state law...

    4VAC15-40-60. Hunting with dogs or possession of weapons in certain locations during closed season.
    A. Department-owned lands west of the Blue Ridge Mountains and national forest lands statewide. It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow, crossbow, or any firearm that is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all national forest lands statewide and on department-owned lands and on other lands managed by the department under cooperative agreement located in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, or waterfowl on these lands.

    B. Department-owned lands east of the Blue Ridge Mountains. It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow, crossbow, or any firearm that is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on department-owned lands and on other lands managed by the department under cooperative agreement located in the counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory gamebirds on these lands.

    C. Certain counties. Except as otherwise provided in 4VAC15-40-70, it shall be unlawful to have either a shotgun or a rifle in one's possession when accompanied by a dog in the daytime in the fields, forests or waters of the counties of Augusta, Clarke, Frederick, Page, Shenandoah and Warren, and in the counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains, except Patrick, at any time except the periods prescribed by law to hunt game birds and animals.

    D. Shooting ranges and authorized activities. The provisions of this section shall not prohibit the conduct of any activities authorized by the board or the establishment and operation of archery and shooting ranges on the lands described in subsections A, B and C of this section.The use of firearms, crossbows, and bows in such ranges during the closed season period will be restricted to the area within the established range boundaries. Such weapons shall be required to be unloaded and cased or dismantled in all areas other than the range boundaries. The use of firearms, crossbows, or bows during the closed hunting period in such ranges shall be restricted to target shooting only and no birds or animals shall be molested.

    E. <removed as it only applies to dogs and training dogs>

    F. It shall be unlawful to possess or transport any loaded firearm, or loaded crossbow in or on any vehicle at any time on national forest lands or department-owned lands.

    G. The provisions of this section shall not prohibit the possession, transport and use of loaded firearms by employees of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries while engaged in the performance of their authorized and official duties, nor shall it prohibit possession and transport of loaded concealed handguns where the individual possesses a concealed handgun permit as defined in § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.

    H. <removed as it only contains definitions which are not pertinent to this thread/post>


    Thank you virginiatuck


    4VAC15-40-60 is in the part of the VAC that deals with the DGIF. Without that, there appears to be no state law that could be violated, meaning there would be no federal prohibition either. I'm willing to be wrong if someone points out something I've missed.
    Last edited by t33j; 05-11-2011 at 04:35 AM.
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    That seems to allow concealed carry at any time with a permit, but open carry (with or w/out a permit) only during hunting season.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    That seems to allow concealed carry at any time with a permit, but open carry (with or w/out a permit) only during hunting season.

    yes.

    Hiking 15+ miles a day with a concealed, loaded, regular sized handgun, along with a spare mag on one's body is not fun... especially if it's above 65 degrees or humid at all. It's not useful if it's in a pack.
    Last edited by t33j; 05-11-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    That seems to allow concealed carry at any time with a permit, but open carry (with or w/out a permit) only during hunting season.
    That's right Jonesy!
    Another of the P4P things that irritate me,

    One thing to remember though...
    I grew up in the mountains of Va and spent more time in the National Forest than out.
    The locals never go in unarmed and aside from the tourist areas, I've never seen a Ranger.

    I'm not advocating breaking the law, just pointing out facts.
    There are lots of Pot Plots and armed people to watch out for.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    I guess I was focused more on the fact that it's not strictly speaking a federal problem. Here's where I'm getting it:

    4VAC15-40-60 is in the part of the VAC that deals with the DGIF. Without that, there appears to be no state law that could be violated, meaning there would be no federal prohibition either. I'm willing to be wrong if someone points out something I've missed.
    That's correct JT and the above is the result of an agreement between other states and the National Forest. It would appear that a change in DGIF regulations would change the National Forest also.

    My problem with that is that it has been illegal to carry in the National Forest during off season long before the Joint agreement. Back at least 50 years. There are other Federal Regs that are either dormant or can be reintroduced.

    Forcing DGIF to break the agreement will be difficult also. I'm sure Bob will argue the need for a multistate/Federal agreement to manage game management and law enforcement.

    This will be an uphill fight and without DGIF blessing, the General Assembly tends to not act.

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