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Thread: What is Hiking?

  1. #1
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    What is Hiking?

    Regarding
    the list of Exceptions for CC
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    Is walking your dog in your neighborhood covered by this exception? Don't mean to be trollish, but if you were sterile OC, and then covered up do to rain, would you be exempt?

    Assuming you're just walking your dog, you're not on the way to/from the shop(s)

    A cursory search of the RCW didn't provide me with the answer, but in another location, they list,
    walking, hiking, backpacking, so there may be some precedent that Hiking, is somehow different from walking, but I don't see where that's defined.

    Thanks for the comments if any

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Regarding
    the list of Exceptions for CC
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    Is walking your dog in your neighborhood covered by this exception? Don't mean to be trollish, but if you were sterile OC, and then covered up do to rain, would you be exempt?

    Assuming you're just walking your dog, you're not on the way to/from the shop(s)

    A cursory search of the RCW didn't provide me with the answer, but in another location, they list,
    walking, hiking, backpacking, so there may be some precedent that Hiking, is somehow different from walking, but I don't see where that's defined.

    Thanks for the comments if any
    Don't consent to any search, and don't worry too much about it? If you're doing a legitimate outdoor recreational activity (e.g. walking the dog), you're unlikely to be stopped to begin with. If you are, don't let them search you. If you do both of those, you still have that law covering you (though it may involve spending money).
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Regarding
    the list of Exceptions for CC
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    Is walking your dog in your neighborhood covered by this exception? Don't mean to be trollish, but if you were sterile OC, and then covered up do to rain, would you be exempt?

    Assuming you're just walking your dog, you're not on the way to/from the shop(s)

    A cursory search of the RCW didn't provide me with the answer, but in another location, they list,
    walking, hiking, backpacking, so there may be some precedent that Hiking, is somehow different from walking, but I don't see where that's defined.

    Thanks for the comments if any

    This is downright scary....

    The Governor appears to have convened a study that defines walking and outdoor activites inclusively to local sidewalks, streets and roads....See page 8, Local Government

    Walking

    Walking is hugely popular, with 67 percent participation, common to all
    ages, in all regions. Most walking happens on the transportation
    system: sidewalks, streets, roads. People prefer to walk on unpaved
    paths and sidewalks. When planning trails or paths, it is of interest to
    know that research done for the Washington Department of
    Transportation found that the public will support new facilities when
    they offer a new, safe place to walk.7 Most walks are short: averaging
    about 1.9 miles.

    Confirming the State’s Interest in (Outdoor) Recreation Recreation offers more than play.

    Recreation, as physical activity, has a direct contribution to public health. Walking and bicycling contributes to personal mobility.

    It is in the state’s interest to encourage local activity by supporting local facilities. Support of parks and sports facilities is obvious. Less obvious is that support for school facilities including playgrounds and sports fields will result in increased opportunities for recreation and physical activity. A state policy requiring that publicly funded school facilities be made available for after school use is worth exploration.

    Likewise, encouraging walking and cycling on and to local facilities
    (e.g., a safe route to school that uses a grade-separated trail) addresses multiple priorities and public benefits.


    http://www.mrsc.org/govdocs/W3ParksRec.pdf

    Certainly, this is tax money well spent to determine that outdoor activites, including walking need to be defined, communicated, funded, encouraged, measured, rationalized, taxed and then improved on....however, I didn't see a direct metric between OC and safety potential opportunities being exploited in the charts and graphs....

    .....and I would think that if your carrying sterile, and decide to go CC from OC, there is not a "rain" exemption and you likely should have your CC punch card with you somewhere.

    I don't think you actually have much to worry about....
    Last edited by jt59; 05-09-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    To me, hiking was always driving way out into the woods or up in the Mountains, going for a long walk carrying an uncomfortable pack, drinking warm water, eating dry food that tasted like the package it came from, and using leaves or moss for (well, you know what). Oh, and don't forget the nettles or devil's club.

    If you are doing all that on city streets then I guess you're OK except for the "Leaves and Moss" part.
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    Interesting question. I think the question is: What would the majority of the public view as "hiking"? Would the general mass feel that "hiking" is simply walking your dog in your neighborhood? I wouldn't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Interesting question. I think the question is: What would the majority of the public view as "hiking"? Would the general mass feel that "hiking" is simply walking your dog in your neighborhood? I wouldn't think so.
    Fortunately, the real question being asked is "what is a recreational outdoor activity".
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;


    Looks like its wide open to me. The wording, "such as", means to me that the following are examples of a lawful outdoor activity.
    Attendant circumstances; Walking the dog, with a dog present to prove the legitimacy of in fact walking the dog.

    I suspect the next thing will be, "See how that works out for you."

    CUE: BigDave, in 3, 2, .......

  8. #8
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Merriam Webster says:

    Definition of HIKE

    intransitive verb
    1
    a : to go on a hike b : to travel by any means

    2
    : to rise up; especially : to work upward out of place <skirt had hiked up in back>

    transitive verb
    1
    a : to move, pull, or raise with a sudden motion <hiked himself onto the top bunk> b : snap 6b c : to raise in amount sharply or suddenly <hike rents>

    2
    : to take on a hike

    3
    : to traverse on a hike <hike a trail>

    hik·er noun
    Examples of HIKE

    • We spent the afternoon hiking around the lake.
    • She hiked 10 miles in the hot desert sun.
    • We hiked some of the shorter trails.
    • Our neighbors spent their vacation hiking the Rockies.
    • The state keeps hiking the tax on cigarettes.
    • There's talk of hiking the eligibility age.
    • I hiked myself onto the ledge


    Sooooooooooooooooo the next time they raise the taxes on cigarettes, I don't need to renew my CPL
    Last edited by Sparky508; 05-09-2011 at 10:29 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    First, you really do not have to worry about the state's definition of "hiking" because the real thing is lawful "recreational activities". The part that I find interesting is it appears to me that you can concealed carry without a permit (while going to and from; and while recreating) for purposes of self protection. I'm not worried if I am reading this correctly, or not, as I do have a CPL, but that is how I read it....

    For the discussion, we used to "hike" and "day hike", as others have stated, this involved going up into the mountains. However, some of my friends used to be very weary of my "walks" and strolls, as what I used to consider a stroll through the woods, they very well might have considered a "hike".

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    What matters, is how the police officer, prosecuting attorney, and judge/jury members think "outdoor recreational activities" mean. If it's this debatable, then it's debatable that it could not go in your favor, unless there's a specific WA Supreme Court ruling on this. I'd carry my CPL on me if I had to conceal while going for a walk through my community.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    This is like the WA Collector Plate law. You can use them when "driving for pleasure.'

    Personally, anytime I'm in an old Camaro/mustang/corvette, etc, it's always pleasurable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    This is like the WA Collector Plate law. You can use them when "driving for pleasure.'

    Personally, anytime I'm in an old Camaro/mustang/corvette, etc, it's always pleasurable.
    LOL What? Can you cite that law? I had never heard of that! I'm interested in reading about it now.

    Nvm. I found it!
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 05-09-2011 at 11:10 PM.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Carry a frisbee, stop at a park, throw frisbee, dog brings it back, now continue on walk.





    Oh and it will be up to the judge to decide. I think that's what BD would say, too lazy to go thru his posts to make sure it's accurate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Don't consent to any search, and don't worry too much about it? If you're doing a legitimate outdoor recreational activity (e.g. walking the dog), you're unlikely to be stopped to begin with. If you are, don't let them search you. If you do both of those, you still have that law covering you (though it may involve spending money).
    The problem with this line of thinking (which is somewhat common around here in my experience), is that it assumes a police officer can never have RAS for an encounter just because you are innocent and doing nothing to provide RAS. This is entirely untrue and so it is still a risk.

    For instance, you might match the description of a wanted criminal suspected to be in the area. In such a situation they can pat you down for officer safety and if they find you are CC'ing they can still nail you for it even though you don't turn out to be the person they were looking for.
    Last edited by arentol; 05-10-2011 at 12:24 AM.

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    I would think that generally if the LEO is asking for your consent, then they DO NOT have RAS to search you. It is my thinking that it will always be in your best interest to refuse all searches and seizures. If the officer feels they have RAS and searches you anyways, the search can always be challenged in court and if you are unfortunate enough to have something you shouldn't have found on you (I'm not advocating having anything illegal) you can then challenge the results of that search also.

    Again as others have said, do not physically resist, that will end very badly. But verbally stating that you are refusing to be searched without a warrant (for the purposes of your own recording device) really cannot do any harm.

  16. #16
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    unless you were using this leash to walk the dog....


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    What matters, is how the police officer, prosecuting attorney, and judge/jury members think "outdoor recreational activities" mean. If it's this debatable, then it's debatable that it could not go in your favor, unless there's a specific WA Supreme Court ruling on this. I'd carry my CPL on me if I had to conceal while going for a walk through my community.
    We need to change the mindset that what they think matters. It doesn't matter to me one bit what our employees think.

    Really we need to turn the tyranny back around we are not meant in this state and in this country to be subject to what these folks "think".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    We need to change the mindset that what they think matters. It doesn't matter to me one bit what our employees think.

    Really we need to turn the tyranny back around we are not meant in this state and in this country to be subject to what these folks "think".
    It would be best to fix how these employees think before ignoring. Otherwise one could end up like Chris Harris in Seattle. You may end up a "winner" after it's all over, with $10 Million Dollars in the bank as a settlement. The only problem is that your medical expenses, due to being paralyzed and in a coma, will take every penny of that.

    Until the way these officers think is changed I'd be very wary. It's not our mindset that needs to be changed as much as THEIR's. Then we can change ours. To take an attitude of "I don't care what they think" could have severe consequences, physical, financial, and legal.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It would be best to fix how these employees think before ignoring. Otherwise one could end up like Chris Harris in Seattle. You may end up a "winner" after it's all over, with $10 Million Dollars in the bank as a settlement. The only problem is that your medical expenses, due to being paralyzed and in a coma, will take every penny of that.

    Until the way these officers think is changed I'd be very wary. It's not our mindset that needs to be changed as much as THEIR's. Then we can change ours. To take an attitude of "I don't care what they think" could have severe consequences, physical, financial, and legal.
    I agree, my thinking is though that unless we change the fact that we accept this behavior and don't demand it to be changed they will never change their mindset. Like a parent enabling a spoiled brat.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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