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Thread: Going to hearings? What do to?

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    Going to hearings? What do to?

    It's been posted that we should be on our best behavior at the hearings. However, since it sounds like the GOP leadership is out to cross us, should we change things slightly? Bringing signs that say "constitutional carry!" or wearing WCI shirts, or the like? I'd still be against cammo and the other "gun nut" stereotype clothing that was mentioned, but if we aren't going to be allowed to speak about CC at the madison hearing (none of this applies to Wasaua hearings, since they are doing both bills there), how do we get our point across we want constitutional, not permits?
    It sounds like we can't even write down we prefer CC over permits on the comment cards.

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    Good question. If my PTO is approved, I will be at the Capitol on Thursday.

    I am also curious about what to expect. I have never been to a legislative hearing.
    Will there be breaks for meals, bathroom, etc?
    Does one need to speak or can a comment card be submitted without speaking?
    Madison's meeting starts at 10:30, what time should I try to be there by?
    Do they alternate between pro and con speakers, is it one group at a time, or completely random?
    Would I need to bring antyhing other than my smiling face and a cow bell/bull horn?

    I really hope my time off is approved, I'm looking forward to this.

    BTW, I wouldn't really bring a noise maker. I support all rights, even the right to free speech for those with whom I disagree.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    If I were able to attend, I'd wear my bright orange WCI t-shirt. I do think the orange is brighter than the lime green. If you are able to speak, remind them what the official GOP stance is, no permits.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    Good question. If my PTO is approved, I will be at the Capitol on Thursday.

    I am also curious about what to expect. I have never been to a legislative hearing.
    Will there be breaks for meals, bathroom, etc?
    Does one need to speak or can a comment card be submitted without speaking?
    Madison's meeting starts at 10:30, what time should I try to be there by?
    Do they alternate between pro and con speakers, is it one group at a time, or completely random?
    Would I need to bring antyhing other than my smiling face and a cow bell/bull horn?

    I really hope my time off is approved, I'm looking forward to this.

    BTW, I wouldn't really bring a noise maker. I support all rights, even the right to free speech for those with whom I disagree.
    Are you familiar with the square area? do you know where the parking ramps are? You can usually find parking in the ramps on an ordinary day, but I have NO idea what impact a major issue like this will have on the ramps. Most I know of are within 2 blocks of the square. I'm not too sure of parking much further than that myself. I think there is a ramp 3-4 blocks down E. Washington, but it's been awhile.

    Other than rain, it looks like the forecast calls for T-shirt weather anyway!

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    I am planning for this:
    If you are planning to attend, please prepare written remarks to be entered into the public record. You will need 5 copies of your testimony for the Senate Judicary Committee and 7 copies for the Assembly Criminal Justice Committee.


    Senate Judiciary Committee:
    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/com...s&HOUSE=Senate

    Senate Criminal Justice Committee:
    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/com...HOUSE=Assembly
    comp45acp sent this out. I am going to the Wausau "event" which is the Senate Judiciary Committee. The Madison "event" is with the Senate Criminal Justice Committee. At least that is what I understand. I've been wrong before, as you all know.

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    Regular Member proneblocked's Avatar
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    I would like to attend the hearing in Madison. I'll be commuting from Dodgeville if anyone is interested. I can accomodate 1 maybe 2 people(2 door coupe) and gas/parking would be shared preferably. Im a broke student =/
    I plan on dressing conservatively and wear my "guns save lives" button from the last WC meeting.
    I used to live in downtown Madison and know where all the ramps are.

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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    Im plannign on parking in the ramp across from the downtown MATC...ill be in shirt, tie, etc... with a gun save lives pin...and an empty holster!

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    I kind of know the downtown area. I've been in Madison for 13 years, but have avoided the downtown area for the last few years. My fondness for crowds is inversely proportionate to my age.

    As far as ramps, there are a bunch down there, but I don't know how they are during business hours.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    If you are going to Madison, even though they aren't having a hearing on the Constitutional Carry bill, you can talk about the shall issue bill and say things that you don't like about the permits.

    WCI shirts would be fine, signs would be fine but personally, I'd not be shouting 'shame, shame'. Also, keep the statements fact based, such as the GOP platform did away with permits, bad guys don't obey laws, OC doesn't require a permit. Try to keep emotions out of it. If you make threats, make them, once again, fact based and don't threaten someone physically.

    Threats such as 'I am a member of WCI and we have thousands of members, we will remember this vote at the next election'.

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    If you bring a sign into the Capitol ... don't put it on a stick ... sticks are not allowed.

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    I'd like to go but we got a hot job at work and they want to get the parts out by Friday so . The main thing I want to do is just knock Jeri off that soap box of hers. I was reading the article in the JS and this had to be one of most ridiculous things she has said:

    "There is no real causal relationship between concealed carry and crime rates," she said, "but there is between laws allowing more firearms and firearm deaths."

    REALLY?!?! I guess she missed the the report by the DOJ/FBI where they said that over the last what, 30 years, that gun ownership has steadily increased and yet the national crime rate has decreased during that time. Also John Lott's seminal book "More Guns, Less Crime" which is in its 3rd edition I believe. At least we can listen to the other side of the debate before we smash it to pieces .
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Try to keep emotions out of it. If you make threats, make them, once again, fact based and don't threaten someone physically.

    Threats such as 'I am a member of WCI and we have thousands of members, we will remember this vote at the next election'.
    If given your 2 minutes or whatever length of time to express your opinion, threats of any kind including voting choice have no place. The most significant positive impact is made when someone articulates their position in a rational and clear manner. Give your position and your reasons for believing it along with your reasons for opposing the alternatives and you will do more for our cause than looking like an extremist who will not even listen to someone else's opinion.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Give your position and your reasons for believing it along with your reasons for opposing the alternatives and you will do more for our cause than looking like an extremist who will not even listen to someone else's opinion.
    Exactly! That is when I know I have 'won' an argument with an anti. When I use logic and they start swearing at me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    If given your 2 minutes or whatever length of time to express your opinion, threats of any kind including voting choice have no place. The most significant positive impact is made when someone articulates their position in a rational and clear manner. Give your position and your reasons for believing it along with your reasons for opposing the alternatives and you will do more for our cause than looking like an extremist who will not even listen to someone else's opinion.
    Excellant advice and the proper thing to do.

    I've been to two prior hearings on CCW. What you can expect to hear from the opponants to concealed carry will both make you want to vomit and boggle your mind at the same time. It's one thing to read their drivel in comments sections of newspapers, online, etc.., it's ten-fold more aggravating when you actually see & hear them do it in person. Most of it isn't fact based and is just personal anti-gun opinions and anecdotes, that mostly are anti-GUN in general and not necessarily related to everyday carrying of a firearm. You must hold your temper and hold your tongue. Any loud outbursts or negative comments made about a speaker at the microphone, no matter how absurd it is what they say, will get you promptly removed. They try to keep these as orderly as a court trial, but not as "formal".

    The two hearings that I did attend were joint committees, and both Sen. Dave Zien & Rep. Scott Gunderson were part of the legislative panel (they were the lead authors of the bills). They did an excellant job at refuting most of the anti-gun/anti-carry drivel. I don't know who will be there this time, but I doubt they'll be anywhere near as knowlegable as Zien was.

    Edit to add: If you want to speak, you must sign up to do so. Average citizens are usually taken in the order of sign-up. But those who are an official spokesperson for an organization are typically moved to the front of the line and given priority. This could mean people like the NRA rep., the WAVE rep, someone speaking on behalf of a LE organization, someone from WCI or WI-FORCE, etc., because they are speaking on behalf of more than just one person.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 05-10-2011 at 12:09 PM.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what the rules are regarding photography at these hearings? Thanks.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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    Something that I got from the Campaign For Liberty:
    "In Wausau, two bills are being heard: our Constitutional Concealed Carry bill, and one of the permit carry bills. In Madison, the other permit carry bill will be heard.
    This is the classic "keep your eye on the left hand and ignore what the right hand is doing" technique. The Republican leadership and the NRA are working together to divide and conquer Constitutional Carry.
    This is their plan: Send all of the Constitutional Concealed Carry people to Wausau, then have the real hearing on the permit bill that leadership wants in Madison at the same time.
    They believe that, by default, the people that come to the Madison hearing will have to agree with permit carry because that is the only one being heard at that location.
    Guess what? THEY are wrong!
    So here is our new plan: We need everyone who is able to come to the Madison hearing on Thursday at 10:30am rather than the Wausau meeting. We need you there standing up for Constitutional Concealed Carry and denouncing permit carry.
    If we can overwhelm their permit carry hearing with support for Constitutional Carry, we will force leadership to put Constitutional Carry up for a vote instead of permit carry.
    We need to pack the hearing in Madison with Constitutional Concealed Carry supporters.
    We all must let them know that we will not accept permit carry forced down our throats.
    Permit carry is unacceptable because it turns your rights into privileges and you will need to beg the government for them. "


    So I REALLY want to go, but my question is: is it going to be "kid-friendly"? I have a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old, so I probably don't want to go up and say anything, but I could hold a sign or two and add to the numbers of supporters. Has anyone ever brought their young kids to something like this? Hmm...

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shell View Post
    So I REALLY want to go, but my question is: is it going to be "kid-friendly"? I have a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old, so I probably don't want to go up and say anything, but I could hold a sign or two and add to the numbers of supporters. Has anyone ever brought their young kids to something like this? Hmm...
    It would be good to show your children the legislative process.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Remember though, this will be a long boring process. Be prepared to leave anytime.

    on another note, I think they have a bunch other things to do at this hearing? something about photo ID for retired LEO, and bunch of other stuff. AND it said the 10:30 meeting will actually start after a 10:00AM closed session about something else?

    Too lazy right now to look at it again, but it's possible that it could be a long while before the bill is actually talked about, if at all?

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shell View Post
    Something that I got from the Campaign For Liberty:
    "In Wausau, two bills are being heard: our Constitutional Concealed Carry bill, and one of the permit carry bills. In Madison, the other permit carry bill will be heard.
    This is the classic "keep your eye on the left hand and ignore what the right hand is doing" technique. .....They believe that, by default, the people that come to the Madison hearing will have to agree with permit carry because that is the only one being heard at that location.
    Guess what? THEY are wrong!
    So here is our new plan: We need everyone who is able to come to the Madison hearing on Thursday at 10:30am rather than the Wausau meeting. We need you there standing up for Constitutional Concealed Carry and denouncing permit carry.
    If we can overwhelm their permit carry hearing with support for Constitutional Carry, we will force leadership to put Constitutional Carry up for a vote instead of permit carry.
    We need to pack the hearing in Madison with Constitutional Concealed Carry supporters.
    We all must let them know that we will not accept permit carry forced down our throats.
    Nice conspiracy theory but nothing more....
    The facts of the matter are that there is no Assembly "version" of the Constitutional Carry Bill at this time. The Senate hearing is in Wausau and the Senate has both a CC and Permit System bills.
    Once again everyone needs to remember that a cool head and conveying a message which is perceived as reasonable will make a more positive impression. If all you are prepared to bring to the table is "2A yadda yadda yadda you are not as patriotic as I am" and the threat of not voting for them next time around, you have nothing. You have zero chance of "forcing" anyone to do anything. You will cement the opinion that there should be a permit system with a background check and possibly even training in order to weed out the "hot heads" and "extremists" who are not willing to work within the system.
    This is a war of perception!!

  20. #20
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Once again everyone needs to remember that a cool head and conveying a message which is perceived as reasonable will make a more positive impression. If all you are prepared to bring to the table is "2A yadda yadda yadda you are not as patriotic as I am" and the threat of not voting for them next time around, you have nothing. You have zero chance of "forcing" anyone to do anything. You will cement the opinion that there should be a permit system with a background check and possibly even training in order to weed out the "hot heads" and "extremists" who are not willing to work within the system.
    This is a war of perception!!
    We have a 50/50 chance on this, let's work steadily on this and we can win!

  21. #21
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    this is the historic moment. this is history, and were a part of it. thank you all who can go to the hearings. thank us all for what we have done big and small to get to this historic moment. it is an honor to know each and every one of you. speak the truth, be determined. judging from the forum numbers we have attention. and from the polls we rule the day.

    a proud moment, though probably not deserved; my 3rd oldest came home and mentioned they spoke of Concealed Carry coming to pass in their class today, and he turned to me and said; That's because of you huh?

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    We have a 50/50 chance on this, let's work steadily on this and we can win!
    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    this is the historic moment. this is history, and were a part of it. thank you all who can go to the hearings. thank us all for what we have done big and small to get to this historic moment. it is an honor to know each and every one of you. speak the truth, be determined. judging from the forum numbers we have attention. and from the polls we rule the day.

    a proud moment, though probably not deserved; my 3rd oldest came home and mentioned they spoke of Concealed Carry coming to pass in their class today, and he turned to me and said; That's because of you huh?
    We could be the first to go Constitutional Carry from almost nothing, through the legislature. Let's make history!

    McX, it is makes you proud to be a father eh?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    I just got off the phone with Leroy Jonas, Sen.Galloway's aide. He called in response to an email with questions about the Wausau hearing.

    Due to the large number of people expected to speak, comments will be limited to 2 minutes. A speaker should have 5 copies of his/her comments for the committee. That way, if the 2 minutes runs out, they still have a written version of your comments.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    phred -- when are you going to be there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    phred -- when are you going to be there?
    I have heard/seen three different start times, but Sen Galloway's aide said start at noon and go until 6:00 PM. So, I am planning on being there right around noon and staying as long as I can, hopefully until 6 PM. Then I will head down to Gander Mt for the NRA thingy at 6:30 (until 9:00 PM) Me thinks it will be a long day!

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