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Thread: Not gun related, but wanting to pass word about local attempts on child abduction!!!

  1. #1
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    Not gun related, but wanting to pass word about local attempts on child abduction!!!

    I just wanted to pass the word about local attempts where some nut has actually sent a letter to the police department stating they were planning on taking a school aged child. Now, this may be some kind of prank, but it may also be a very sick person being real. Either way, it should not be taken lightly. Here is the link to the news article.

    http://www.digtriad.com/news/article...ool-Aged-Child

    I pray it is just a sick prank, if not, I pray I catch the bastard so I can empty every magazine I carry.

    Semper Fi!

    ....--Moderator Edit--
    This is wrong on so many levels.
    1 - Not OC or RKBA related - moving to Social Lounge
    2 - We advocate for the law abiding only - we do NOT take the law into our own hands.
    3 - Remember the phrase - "Everything can and will be used against you" - even the internet.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt402 View Post
    I pray it is just a sick prank, if not, I pray I catch the bastard so I can empty every magazine I carry.

    Dude, you should also pray that if, god forbid, you ever DO find yourself in such a situation, that the DA doesn't have internet access, or else statements like that will put you straight up the "premeditation creek" without the proverbial paddle...

    Be careful with your words--they are watching.

    And remember, ANYTHING you say CAN AND WILL be used AGAINST you...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-12-2011 at 02:51 PM.
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  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This was NOT an "attempt" of child abduction.

    It was an anonymous threat.

    Maybe a prank - we don't know - but the sky is not falling either.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    I don't have an opinion on whether or not it is a prank or not, BUT I would think that if most parents would watch their kids instead of taking them to a Chucky Cheese or a park and just turning them loose to do as they will while some parent spends their time on a laptop or a phone instead of paying attention to their kid. It really pisses me off everytime I am in a store or out and about somewhere and someones kids is running around loose without a parent in sight. My wife works in a retail store and I was in there the other day and while the parents were getting some seeds for their garden, their 4 or 5yr old was running out the front door into the parking lot. I had to get their kid and take him to them so he wouldn't get runover in traffic. I can't state any statistics or studies but I would bet alot of abductions are of kids who weren't being supervised and should of been. I'll assure you that the chances of someone looking at me with my gun on my side will think twice about even looking at my kids wrong let alone trying to abduct them. And if the punishment would actually punish offenders instead of slapping them on the wrist and turning them back out to do it again but with more education on how not to get caught then it might happen less frequently as well.
    Just my 2 cents.
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    Sick. Most likely a prank, as most folks of this sort dont go to the trouble to advertise or warn anyone of their intent. The nature of this kind of beast is usually that they know right well that what they are up to is the worst kind of wrong-so they try to do their thing discreet and hope to get away with it.
    Nonetheless-be vigilant,and keep an eye out.

    But- 1 lesson from past personal experience in such a matter.
    About 18 years ago,when I lived in NY, a couple of kids had been abducted in my neighborhood. At the time,they were still missing,outcome unknown. But everyone was keeping a sharper eye out,for sure.Myself included.

    One afternoon, coming home from work, I saw something that just didnt look right to me at all-with this situation very much in mind at the time. A boy of about 8 yrs. was riding his bike along a sidewalk. Riding alongside him, on the street-matching his pace, was a station-wagon with an adult male-roughly 40's (same rough discription as the person everyone was watching out for) the man was saying something to the kid, and the kid looked terrified-began pedaling as fast as he could to get away from this guy. Look back at the guy, and he's making frantic gestures to the kid to come get in the car.

    I continued to follow this guy,and noted his plate # for when I could get to a phone.
    Then the car sped-up,swerved to the curb in front of the kid and the guy got out and approached the kid. At this I decided I was going to step-in. Hard.
    No way in hell was I simply going to sit there and watch a possible abduction go down right in front of me.
    I got out -shouted at the guy to stay away from the kid. He looked right at me, ignored me, and continued towards the kid.So I moved up.
    I got hold of him just before he could get his hands on the kid, and commenced to beating him to a pulp right there on the sidewalk.
    A couple other male adults from nearby homes saw this as well, and began to come over and join in.
    At this, the kid started yelling to stop beatiing his "dad".



    WTF, over?
    So I ask the guy-are you his father? He says yes. I asked to explain himself-in light of the recent missing kids, etc. Long story short-the kid had done something or other,was supposed to be grounded,but had left out on his bike-and he had pursued the kid to bring him home.
    I told him why I did what I did, and what it looked like to the rest of us seeing this go down-due to the kidnappings.
    He thought it over, and then thanked me.

    That really threw me for a loop- thank me? He said, yes, had this been what it must have looked like-now that he thought about it- he was thankful someone would have intervened like this for his kid. So, odd enough day already-for both of us, we shook hands and parted ways.

    So I know the emotion/rage of what one wants to do to such a person. But I now also know that not is always as it seems-so acting on that.....may not go down like it did for me.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    You are really very lucky that you didn't end up under the jail.

    Entirely too little information, jumped to conclusions and interacted illegally.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
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    You are absolutely right. Wont debate that a bit.
    But-given the situation, and how it looked, I could not have lived with myself afterwards, had I not intervened-phyiscally if need be.
    Im not one who could have simply sat there, watching this go down, then comment on it later to someone -LEO or otherwise-who might-have been able to try to act on it,after the fact.
    The guy wasnt exactly open to discussing the matter in a polite conversation at the moment-he was clearly intent on grabbing the kid off the bike,and tossing him in the car. That was not going to happen in my presence, I assure you.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    You are absolutely right. Wont debate that a bit.
    But-given the situation, and how it looked, I could not have lived with myself afterwards, had I not intervened-phyiscally if need be.
    Im not one who could have simply sat there, watching this go down, then comment on it later to someone -LEO or otherwise-who might-have been able to try to act on it,after the fact.
    The guy wasnt exactly open to discussing the matter in a polite conversation at the moment-he was clearly intent on grabbing the kid off the bike,and tossing him in the car. That was not going to happen in my presence, I assure you.
    Not questioning your motives and understand the heightened awareness.

    Normally kidnappers do not persist when there are obvious witnesses. My first presumption was that he was a parent. It is incumbent on us to be right, especially before using force.

    I understand this was from a long time ago and is mostly allegorical, but there are lessons to be learned.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Here's my question. If someone were to be snatched right in front of you, what can you legally do since you aren't the one being threatened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Here's my question. If someone were to be snatched right in front of you, what can you legally do since you aren't the one being threatened.
    Entirely too vague. It depends a lot on where you are,doesnt it? Some states have citizen's arrest statutes that differ from others,etc.

    But the same question can be applied to we OC/CC folks in our way:

    Gunfight breaks out right in front of you between 2 other parties-neither are threatening you,directly, but others around you, perhaps? What do you do? Consult a lawyer via the 800 # off the back of the nearest phone book/billboard, etc? Sit back and watch ? Or take action of some sort to bring things to a stop before nearby innocents are harmed or killed? Tough choice for some, in some situations, no? But life doesnt always offer the luxury of dial 911 and wait for them to get around to dealing with things.
    Last edited by j4l; 05-15-2011 at 12:25 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Here's my question. If someone were to be snatched right in front of you, what can you legally do since you aren't the one being threatened.
    Many SD laws include protecting others. In Alabama, IIRC, kidnapping of a minor is an instance in which deadly force may be used to stop the abduction.

    On edit: It does not even have to be a minor:

    Section 13A-3-23
    Use of force in defense of a person.

    (a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose. A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:

    (1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.

    (2) Using or about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling while committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling.

    (3) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping in any degree, assault in the first or second degree, burglary in any degree, robbery in any degree, forcible rape, or forcible sodomy.

    (4) In the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is in the process of sabotaging or attempting to sabotage a federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is attempting to remove, or has forcefully removed, a person against his or her will from any dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle when the person has a legal right to be there, and provided that the person using the deadly physical force knows or has reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act is occurring. The legal presumption that a person using deadly physical force is justified to do so pursuant to this subdivision does not apply if:

    a. The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner or lessee, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

    b. The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used;

    c. The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

    d. The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his or her official duties.
    Last edited by eye95; 05-15-2011 at 09:04 PM.

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    Good point. I believe in Louisiana also,and Im sure some other states as well.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Here's my question. If someone were to be snatched right in front of you, what can you legally do since you aren't the one being threatened.
    Depends on the state. Protecting against loss of life and limb comes to mind for mine, but a 911 is about all others states will allow.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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