Arrested for "Failure to produce ID, Failure to produce CC Permit" - while OC'ing

I use a Droid Eris, I think I'll go look into recording programs. Funny, hadn't thought of that.

papa bear said:

were these security guards or certified police officers?
do you know what was the cause of the disruption of your recording

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This mall has both security guards and real police officers. I am not sure how crabtree gets a certifiable private police dept. and other large malls in the area do not. But they are legit cops.

Right as the officers started to put their hands on me I slipped the camera into my shirt pocket and it got cut off.

REDFIVE48 said:

I too have instituted the screen pattern lock feature on my phone, lucky they weren't smart enough to 'confiscate' your memory card and plug it into a regular PC to 'edit' your files. Since you are recording with your smart phones video function, were you able to hit record before the police entered the store? I imagine that recording video everytime you are OCing could end up with lack of space issues on your memory card before you are done being in public? I've been practicing enabling the recorder on my phone as quickly as possible. thanks for the story and for sticking up for the 2nd and 4th amendments! Glad you got your gun back.

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You can enable encryption which should prevent this. I just got the Droid X and will be using it as a recorder.

Congrats on winning your case and getting your property back. I personally would not have let my lawyer play the recording in secret for them though. Wait until the cop lies on the stand and then play it for all to hear.

WNCTarheel said:

Congrats on winning your case and getting your property back. I personally would not have let my lawyer play the recording in secret for them though. Wait until the cop lies on the stand and then play it for all to hear.

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Great thought, but probably a pricier and riskier option. I'm sure it would come out during any civil action. At the least I would be looking for a sit down with some supervisors and going over it.

mekender said:

I agree with the idea of recording but how do you start a recording device without 1) the cop(s) seeing it and getting nervous thinking you are going for a weapon or 2) making it obvious that you reached for something and that being the grounds they need for an instant Terry frisk where they find the recorder and turn it off?

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Most recording devices these days have space and battery life that last for days. Just turn it on when you leave the house. It'll record everything all day long. If nothing happens, just delete it. No big deal.

I use my phone as a recording device, because it takes 720p HD video. It won't last all day at that high of a data rate. So I just turn it on when I get out of the car and hold it in my hand.

It's an Android device, which is essentially Linux. I wrote a script that FTPs everything with a video file extension to my out-of-country server upon the completion of a video. I like to stop and start the video at points where the cops cross the line to ensure the upload of that particular behavior starts the upload immediately. The QIK app exists, but has a very convenient 'delete' button that anyone seizing the phone could tap to delete everything that just got recorded and uploaded, so I don't use it.

Yep. Let him perjure himself, then seek Felony charges with the DA as well as decertification as an LEO. Along with the civil suit of course. Go get em' tiger!

chiefjason said:

At the least I would be looking for a sit down with some supervisors and going over it.

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Do you mean a supervisor to the department's chief? Cause I heard the chief's point of view that evening. Remember he lied about the CHP permit's requirements to show ID, said it was regardless of mode of carry.

So he is either illiterate, because he was reading from a printout, or he was lying about it.

The chief appeared very unscrupulous to me.

I'm beginning to wonder whether this kind of stuff should still be considered the exception to the norm.

Im glad to hear all worked out well (more or less) for the OP. Ive not had any issues open carrying as of yet.. but I also have not had contact with a company police officer yet either.

For those of y'all that have asked.. in North Carolina, there are basically 4 types of law enforcement officers..

1. government employed police officers - city, county, and state police.
2. Sheriff deputies
3. Campus police- employed by a college or university
4. Company police- work for a privately owned company that has been granted police authority by the state Attorney General. They have to attend the same academy as any other LEO, and attend the same annual refresher training as any other LEO. The catch is they only have authority or jurisdiction over property that they are contracted to protect. Companies like allied barton, wackenhut, etc have company police agencies.
So, while the OP was at the mall, the police agency there has full law enforcement authority over the property and can pursue a suspect using the fresh pursuit doctrine all the way to the state line if need be.

It sounds like the officers he dealt with need a serious re-education on the law, and a major attitude adjustment!

Congrats "Smith". Good to hear that the case was dismissed, and you got your illegally-stolen firearm back...

I hope everyone reads this and "gets it" with regards to voice recorders. I have gotten to where I just start the recording app on my iPhone every time I get out of my vehicle. And I have my iPhone password locked, so the only way for anyone to delete the recording would be to completely destroy my phone. Not having a removable memory card is actually a benefit in cases like this...

I'm also thinking of getting a digital voice recorder, but the only ones I can find around here are $60 or more, which is a little out of my penniless grad student budget. Perhaps I can find something within my budget while I'm up north this weekend. I'll be visiting my stepdaughters in the PRM (one of them is graduating from college), and we're going to Fairfax VA on Saturday so they can do a "Gluten Free Cooking Demo" at the Wegman's over near the County Government Center. While I'm in VA, I may stop in a Best Buys or WalMart to see if I can find something suitable.

Anyway, Thsi is great news for you "Smith". Hopefully your life will be much smoother in the future.

But I will chime in with the rest of the people who are suggesting that you file Federal civil rights violation charges against the Crabtree PD--or at the very least, file a formal complaint with the US DOJ, and the NC AG's office. These rogue PDs never seem to learn their lesson unless you hit them in the pocketbook HARD...

Dreamer said:

And I have my iPhone password locked, so the only way for anyone to delete the recording would be to completely destroy my phone. Not having a removable memory card is actually a benefit in cases like this...

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http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/iphone-passcode-lock-bypass-vulnerability-again/7544

I don't stay up on iPhone stuff much. I do however know that Apple is notoriously slow with security patching. I would take encrypted SD Cards any day of the week.

Download this IPhone app

Dreamer said:

Congrats "Smith". Good to hear that the case was dismissed, and you got your illegally-stolen firearm back...

I hope everyone reads this and "gets it" with regards to voice recorders. I have gotten to where I just start the recording app on my iPhone every time I get out of my vehicle. And I have my iPhone password locked, so the only way for anyone to delete the recording would be to completely destroy my phone. Not having a removable memory card is actually a benefit in cases like this...

I'm also thinking of getting a digital voice recorder, but the only ones I can find around here are $60 or more, which is a little out of my penniless grad student budget. Perhaps I can find something within my budget while I'm up north this weekend.

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Try this App - Qik

It uploads video and audio real time to the Qik server. You can set up a Qik account for free, (unlimited upload) as long as your phones battery is good your streaming data to a password protected online account. Cops can't touch that.

You can check the Iphone series you have and download from here . http://qik.com/phones

Chap

Qik link for App download isn't working

You can get it on ITunes Apps - http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/qik-video-connect-plus/id424106070?mt=8

Ok more bad news, I just check this link and it's an upgrade with flaws in it. The Original App I still have on my phone is (Qik Video Camera Pro) it still upload flawlessly. Unfortunenantly the App isn't available in ITunes anymore.

I downloaded the new version/upgraded App ( Qik Video Connect Plus) but it isn't working correctly, video isn't making it to the server only audio. Help page says they are aware of the issue. I'm not to happy with this newer version. I can't recommend this app right now, if you can find the original app somewhere get it. (Qik Video Camera Pro)

Chap

How to video

In case it may help some folks here is a link to videos on the use and features of DVR's. You may need high speed internet to view them. My new Olympus rides in my shirt pocket and picks up direct conversations very well. I keep it running. $40.00 at Staples in the Triangle. Cheap and easy protection. It's fun to hear the playback but I'm cleaning up my language quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgldpGd-8PU

See the web sites of different brands for comparison and accessories.

chiefjason said:

534 hours of recording for $24.

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Just be aware that recording capacity and battery life are not the same thing. You're almost certain to run out of juice before you run out of room.

Smith45acp said:

Do you mean a supervisor to the department's chief? Cause I heard the chief's point of view that evening. Remember he lied about the CHP permit's requirements to show ID, said it was regardless of mode of carry.

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Yeah, forgot about that. Unless he has a supervisor you could get to. Even Chief's have them. If it's city police then it would be city council. I think they have made themselves quite clear on how they feel about firearms though. Or get your lawyers advice and go from there.

So, I've noticed that Crabtree Vally Mall doesn't have signs. Are we good to go and OC in there or are we looking at having a situation like the OP?

2A Quiz

OC for ME said:

His stated "understanding" of the law means, to me, that his view is not the exception and it follows that some number of his officers will have the same "understanding", professionally speaking that is. I would not be surprised if the vast majority of his officers hold the same "understanding" of the law.

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It might be fun if we had a 5 question teaching quiz posted for folks to challenge their friends and the local cops. Multiple choice with answers at the bottom that give the plain facts. I bet the gun stores would hand them out for us.

The DA didn't want the officers to perjur themselves...haha....classic...to bad the report was falsified.

I think you need to sue the ever living sh!t out of that dept though...otherwise they'll just do it again to some other unlucky sob.

Sue or it will continue, guaranteed

Sue the Mall & the officers involved. You were falsely arrested, assaulted and basically kidnapped. Any attorney will get you a quick settlement. Recently I had a conversation with an officer that has been on the force for 10 years. She said she is very apprehensive about some of the officers that are being hired today. She called them incompetent and undereducated with respect to the law. Said she often catches herself praying that things will be OK and over before her backer arrives.

Direct quote: Now a days I'm more concerned with who my backer is then who I'm stopping. Some of these kids they are hiring right out of the army are all jacked up and looking to escalate things needlessly.