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Thread: No Guns at Great Wolf Lodge in Williamsburg

  1. #1
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    No Guns at Great Wolf Lodge in Williamsburg

    Saw this sign today. The epitome of irony.
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  2. #2
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    Well that's too bad. The wifester and I had considered heading out there some time, but this would nix that possibility.

    I was thinking there was some prohibition on barring firearms kept in rented lodging, but the only thing I could pick out on my phone is this, which may not even apply depending on the definition of "public housing": http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+55-248.9

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Well that's too bad. The wifester and I had considered heading out there some time, but this would nix that possibility.

    I was thinking there was some prohibition on barring firearms kept in rented lodging, but the only thing I could pick out on my phone is this, which may not even apply depending on the definition of "public housing": http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+55-248.9
    Don't even have to read the link... we've talked about this several times... Public housing is just what you think it is... housing subsidized by the state. Sort of falls under the same idea of preemption, but not exactly.

    Just speaking for me... any time I stay in a hotel in a non-repressed State, I don't look for signs on doors... I bring my friends Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson right in the room with me.

    Probably not a bad idea to be discrete during check-in though.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I just had to...

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    I recall discussing that code section TFred that's why I stated I thought there was another provision, but I could only find the one I linked. It would be interesting to see what requirements English Common Law had for inn-keepers with regard to a situation like this. I'm not certain where I'd even start looking for the Common Law provisions. Hmm....

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Kalahari (Great Wolf's biggest competitor) is planning to build in Fredericksburg. It would be interesting to see if they have a similar policy.

    One of their sites is in Wisconsin, but the other is in Ohio.

    TFred

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    I was just doing some quick reading about the common law and lodging requirements and one article addressed the history of the requirements as being necessary for the protection of lodgers. Apparently lodge owners would collude with other criminals to rob and defraud lodgers; thus it may stand to reason that the common law may have provisions for ensuring lodgers may be armed to repel robbers. I'll look more tomorrow.

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    The one in Williamsburg had some issues with perverts a while back. Many water parks are starting to run the names of their season pass holders against the state sex offender registry. I'm not sure how that might work with a hotel water park? I'd be curious if they have a sign saying no perverts too. If you are going to offend people way not offend all equally?

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Not familiar with that place, or the sign. Is it posted on the entrances to the building? This one looks to be in a display case, in which case, I'd take it to mean no guns are present in the display case. Which is clear from the picture, there are indeed no guns in the display case.

    It is not conspicuously posted at the entrance to the property, which is what would be required of someone who's already got a contract with the lodge for the room. The contract turns it into a "civil matter", and any cop who attempts to interfere would be engaging in the tort of "intentional interference with economic relations". For someone who simply wandered in, with no contract, then remaining on the property after having been notified to get out would be a trespasser, subject to defenses of the sign's being inconspicuous, ambiguous, and not communicating anything other than the lack of firearms in the case.

    Do they have "terms and conditions" you have to sign up to in order to reserve a room that include a no-firearms provision?
    Last edited by user; 05-11-2011 at 11:13 AM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    You got a typo in the last sentence Ed

    'Abiding'
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

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    I have just looked over the website and found no reference to "gun", "firearm" or "weapon" in any portion of their website, even amongst the FAQs. Even a look at their policies reveals nothing. It would seem that GWL does not want their stand to be known until someone actually arrives after booking their stay, only to get charged a $25 cancellation fee if the cancellation is not done within 72 hours of arrival.
    (http://www.greatwolf.com/williamsbur...rvices/faq#our policies)

    I did a separate Google search for "Great Wolf Lodge, No Guns" and found links back to this thread, and a couple others that indicate that the GWLs in Washington state and Texas both have postings (including the Texas 30.06 posting) which tell customers that firearms are not permitted.

    I may call the Williamsburg location and ask that they fax or e-mail me a copy of their terms and conditions for staying there.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-11-2011 at 11:45 AM.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I thought in VA, no gun signs hold no weight unless asked to leave, but this is a problem for OC not CC...?
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I thought in VA, no gun signs hold no weight unless asked to leave, but this is a problem for OC not CC...?
    Strictly speaking, if the sign is posted in a way that a reasonable person would be aware of it, it has legal force for the charge of trespassing. However, because of the "reasonable person" standard, it's usually easier for places to enforce such prohibitions by making a verbal request in addition to the sign.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

  14. #14
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Strictly speaking, if the sign is posted in a way that a reasonable person would be aware of it, it has legal force for the charge of trespassing. However, because of the "reasonable person" standard, it's usually easier for places to enforce such prohibitions by making a verbal request in addition to the sign.
    Well if that is the case then malls are at fault(?), never any signs on doors, the rules are posted some where in the mall on a small poster in like the top 20 rules.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 05-11-2011 at 01:46 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  15. #15
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    I called the Great Wolf Lodge in Williamsburg and they could not provide me with any terms and conditions so they forwarded me on to the main reservations line where the customer service representative has now copied the policies and term and conditions included in booking a room from the website and will fax over the results. Once I receive this file (it comes to me as a PDF) I will post it. I don't imagine that I'll find anything that reveals that they are against customers carrying arms, thus it will be apparent that they are involved in deceptive practices which prey upon the public for monetary gain (via the collection of a $25 cancellation fee when a firearm carrier arrives to see that they didn't publish all of the applicable rules with the contract.)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The biggest issue today is that the vast majority of room reservations are made on-line. They may have a check-box saying you have read and agreed to their terms and conditions, but I rarely see "no firearms" listed there.

    In conjunction with User's post, it would be very interesting if someone makes the "contract" over their web page, with no mention of the condition, then is forced to choose upon arrival to comply or not comply with a sign.

    TFred

  17. #17
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    Well I still haven't received the fax, so I don't know what's going on, but there could be an issue here at work. The customer service rep I spoke to just grabbed the information off of the website and was going to stuff it into a a document and send it to me because they had no other publication to send. So any applicable rules should be available online and should be the same as those rules that anyone can see.

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    Here it is. I apparently misread their website. There is a $25 fee if you cancel your reservation at least 72 hours prior to your stay; however if you cancel your stay after that then you forfeit the entirety of the deposit, which is the first nights stay. One night stays start at approximately $200. As expected there is no prohibition on firearms listed, so you'd only find this out once you arrived and were then out the cost of your deposit in addition to any additional expenditures for transportation to that point and home.

    * I deleted the first page of the fax which only contained my contact information and no policy info.
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    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-11-2011 at 06:28 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Similar, older thread on PAFOA site.

    Reported no signs, no problems, good secure safe in room.
    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/750...e-poconos.html
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  20. #20
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    If they're that concerned about rust they should keep some CLP, rods and patches in the rooms!

    But seriously, I can think of a lot of other things to do for what they charge. I give them five dollar signs "$$$$$" which is about two or three more than I usually invest in recreation.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Not familiar with that place, or the sign. Is it posted on the entrances to the building? This one looks to be in a display case, in which case, I'd take it to mean no guns are present in the display case. Which is clear from the picture, there are indeed no guns in the display case.

    It is not conspicuously posted at the entrance to the property, which is what would be required of someone who's already got a contract with the lodge for the room. The contract turns it into a "civil matter", and any cop who attempts to interfere would be engaging in the tort of "intentional interference with economic relations". For someone who simply wandered in, with no contract, then remaining on the property after having been notified to get out would be a trespasser, subject to defenses of the sign's being inconspicuous, ambiguous, and not communicating anything other than the lack of firearms in the case.

    Do they have "terms and conditions" you have to sign up to in order to reserve a room that include a no-firearms provision?
    User, the hotel has provided the terms and conditions for lodging (see my other posts and their website). I am having trouble finding the appropriate Code of Virginia section that would address what appears to the bait and switch trick their trying here by not listing their prohibition on firearms as an applicable restriction for staying at the resort. Do you have any suggestions?

    * I just discovered this Administrative Code section which would address "bait and switch" tactics in the selling or leasing of real property, but I'm not certain if this would apply to lodging rentals.

    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...8VAC135-20-300
    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-11-2011 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Edited to add Admin. Code Section 18VAC135-20-300

  22. #22
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    The sign was posted inside the main entrance. You walk in the front doors and there is a breezeway type area, a set of double doors to the left and right and the wall in the middle. The American flag is in a glass case, and the No Firearms sign is nailed into the wall right below the case.

    I was in that area to meet a VAGT member, and just stopped in to see what it was all about. I didn't ask about anything in regards to the sign, I just went in real quick to grab some pamphlets and saw it on the way out.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    User, the hotel has provided the terms and conditions for lodging (see my other posts and their website). I am having trouble finding the appropriate Code of Virginia section that would address what appears to the bait and switch trick their trying here by not listing their prohibition on firearms as an applicable restriction for staying at the resort. Do you have any suggestions?...

    Take a look at the Virginia Consumer Protection Act, section 59.1-200, in particular, paragraphs 8 and 14. Section 59.1-204 provides your right to sue, but in order to get'em, you'd have to pay money, go there, have someone try to tell you you can't have a gun or you'll have to leave, then you leave, and forfeiting your deposit (or suffering other loss, such as lost time and gasoline, and having to pay extra for similar lodging facilities elsewhere). In other words, you have to call their bluff and be willing to incur a loss. You could file suit at the place where the contract was entered into - if you did it online, that place is your home.
    Last edited by user; 05-12-2011 at 08:51 AM.
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    Thanks for the reply!
    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-12-2011 at 12:44 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    What a wonderful day in Virginia
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-12-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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