• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Calendars Committee fails Open Carry

pooley

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
185
Location
texas
The only Documented proof that I am aware of is rushcreek2's rants, but I've only been a Life Member since 1988.

Because they would definitely post on their main website "We oppose open carry" if they did. They always inform their members of everything they do.

How about a certain NRA board member who just happens to run one of the largest handgun forums in Texas posting skewed polls, calculated to turn people away from OC? Or habitually banning members who speak out on that forum in favor of OC or who question his arguments against OC?

How about a certain lobbyist stating flat out that she will not support this bill?
(Please forgive me, it's a little difficult to cite phone conversations)

NRA/TSRA have done a lot of good in the past. They've done some good this session. But they've also done pretty badly too.
 
Last edited:

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
Oh yes and I do wonder how Rushreek 2 even know that I called to begin with also this is not what happened either but that is past now.
The 'YOU' was in general form, as in he was speaking to the general populace that has been calling the Calendars Committee. It also wasn't negative, but actually a positive thing.
 
Last edited:

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
The only Documented proof that I am aware of is rushcreek2's rants, but I've only been a Life Member since 1988.

There is a lot of document and from several states. Actually there are a few recorded conversations as well.
Right now everyone has more important issues to deal other than your NRA membership. " Were concerned with Texas Legislation at the moment, not your NRA membership or Texas Secession club".
Maybe it will help you more if you review the CHLforum. Nothing but opposition from the want to be NRA board member "elect".
Everybody around here supports the right to carry. Im sure they would love to have the NRA involved with their goals in Texas. Nobody simply wants to make crap up about the NRA, their all just sick and tired of the willingness to fail.
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
My father was a life-long NRA member. I have been a NRA member nearly all of my adult life. I appreciated the NRA involvement in the Heller and McDonald decisions - at first. Then, I started wondering WHY ....it took the NRA so long to deal with the "incorporation" issue, and WHY was the approach in Heller & McDonald so narrowly defined.

Right now on www.nraila.org you can click on the U.S. map for Texas legislation and you will find a very brief reference to "Right to carry bill" in the Texas legislature. That one line blurp links to a Waco TV station report that only quotes the "Brady Bunch's" hired hand Representative Lon Burnam's opposition to HB 2756. Now I don't call that support for respecting the constitutional right to open carry for Texans.

It shouldn't take over 135 years to get rid of "Reconstruction" disarmament policy in Texas .

The 14th Amendment has been in effect for over 140 years. The Supreme Court held in McDonald v Chicago that the 2nd Amendment therefore has been in effect in Texas for 140 years because it was incorporated under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. So why is an 1871 Reconstruction act supported only by the Reconstruction Constitution of 1869 STILL in the Texas Penal Code? Why does every citizen in Texas need a CHL in order to carry a handgun in lawful defense when the Texas Constitution HAS DECLARED SINCE 1876 that to do so is their RESERVED RIGHT ?


The Texas Constitution of 1876 NEVER set aside handguns from the right to bear arms. The common (mistaken) assumption that the power to regulate the wearing of arms somehow pertains to handguns is unsupportable. The power of the Legislature to "regulate the wearing of arms" pertains as much to the CONCEALMENT of a .30/.30 under your clothing as a handgun, or Bowie Knife. Perhaps a little harder to accomplish - but the citizens of Texas would never tolerate total prohibition of all firearms. The handgun ban is a good example of incrementalism at work.

Even though the NRA is not quite ready to be comfortable with "open carry" for every citizen - the framers of the U.S. Constitution were not only comfortable with it - but INSISTED UPON IT ! What does that tell you about the NRA and there "support" for the Second Amendment ?

I agree with everything you say except the fact that nra had nothing at all to do with Heller, Zip, Zero, Nada. That was 100% Second Amendment Foundation. The nra wouldn't touch it until they saw it was probably going to be a winner. Now, the nra talks like Heller was their baby. They won't say it because they know that it is too easy to prove otherwise, but they talk like it was all nra. After Heller, the nra decided to get brave and challenge Chicago. McDonald was also SAF. The nra had a seperate suit that didn't make it to the SCOTUS calender. They then horned in on McDonald to be able to say they, at least, had a part in it. Now, hear the nra tell it, McDonald was all nra as well.
 

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC
Just got off the phone with Justin, Rep. Hunters Legislative Coordinator. Here's a rundown of what happened based on what he said and my notes as we had our conversation.

The Calendar Committee has to adress bills as it comes to them in order of when they were recieved. They are working till 10pm every night trying to play "catch up" because so many bills come to them during this crunch time. When the bill come in to calendars on the 3rd it had an Error in it from HS comittee. One that would have probably allowed opposition to make a "Point of Order" against it for breaking rules and would have killed the bill right there. I figurative "Headshot" to the bill. So they kicked it back and that's why it didn't arrive till the 6th. They want to make sure bills are ready to go and follow the rules so that things like that don't happen to the bills.

The bill cannot be called "Dead" until May 30th. It probably will not make it to house floor because they have till the 10pm today to get to the OC bill. But realist says they won't along with the other 50million bills before it and after it. Something that can happen and we need to put the preasure on those that support the bill.

There is something called "germained" amendments, I think that's what they are called and how it's spelled. I'm bad at spelling don't hold it against me, I'll try to get the message across as best I can. Anyway, in the Texas House, a germained amendment can tack on a bill to another bill on the floor as long as it deals with the same Subject matter. We could then get OC that way. That's why we can't call the bill dead till the 30th.

Now something Justin also told me, if this had passed the floor we would have had a hard time in Senate. They have the 2/3rds rule and there was not a OC bill in the Senate. However we probably would have had a hard time in the Senate to start with because it turns out the Campus Carry didn't have the votes in the Senate. However, the Senate doesn't have a subject matter germained amendment rule. The Campus Carry passed because it was germained onto a fiscal matters bill, I don't know which one. Something to think about.

Now if our hopes and dreams of getting OC this year are squashed come May 30th, when the new legislature starts up, we need to put the heat on Lavender, who wrote the bill, and all those in favor of it and those that helped it pass the HS committee to file this bill again, and push it through EARLY! EARLY! EARLY! And get a Senate companion or find someone to germain into a Senate bill that will likely pass.

Anyway, folks hope this answers some questions and sends some undeserved anger in a different direction. Justin assured me that Rep Hunter is an avid NRA and many members of our House are supporters of NRA and many are life member. Just because the NRA board members and leadership are not supporters of OC as someone stated, I don't know the truth to day btw, just stating that it doesn't mean every member is against it. Trust me when I say there are alot of House members that are 2A supportive and this is from Justin who I quote "I pitty any man that comes into the legislature intent on shooting up the place because he will end up with 1000 bullets in him." Don't loose faith. Don't give up. Though OC didn't pass anywhere this year I think the movement is moving forward. If it doesn't happen this year, we must try to get it moving next ear as early as possible.

Sorry this went long, sorry for spelling, sorry for grammar.
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Appreciate the update Brion and no need to apologize ever.

As OCers, we are definitely in a minority and that we accomplish as much as we do is a testament to our methods and perseverance. If not this year, then next year and the time to start is now.
 

FLSTN

New member
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Texas
I guess I am in the minority here, to me if an organization is not openly supporting a cause that does not actually mean they are spending any energy to oppose it. The ”us or them” attitude is never favorable to any cause and in my opinion it will alienate those who could provide needed support, such as the rank and file members of either organization who believes deeply in their missions and truly appreciate what they do for us, I am one of them. From my perspective everything in life is not black or white, there is a whole bunch of grey between that also needs to be looked at.

Although I am neutral on open carry because I personally will never do it I also understand the right to do such and support that right, although to take one step forward to end up three steps back due to a poorly written bill will not help anybody in the long run.

I believe that most people realize that OC does not have a good chance this session but the ground work as been laid and my sincere appreciation to those who managed to get it this far. Now it is time to understand the concerns as to the language of the bill and work together to make it acceptable to everybody. Then when the next legislative session arrives it will be ready to be filed right away with the support and lobbyists ready and willing to attack this as a unified group rather than us or them. We need co-sponsors of the OC Bill and not one or two, we need many.

If the Parking Lot and Campus Bills pass that will give us 2 years to once again prove the anti’s wrong, use the positive results to our benefit and move forward together without the ranting and name calling which only divides the cause, when we alienate one we alienate many……… friends are much more acceptable of our quirks tan our enemies are, we do not need another single enemy, Brady and the anti's are enough.... ego's need to be checked at the door and welcome everybody with a warm handshake and a smile if this is going to happen........
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
I had a feeling the lateness of this bill was going to kill it. Lavender should have known this as well, even if he is a first timer. He just got a lesson in how to make it appear that he supports something and how to kill it at the same time. Maybe he was sincere in this endeavor, maybe he was led astray by some one, maybe it was his intention all along. No way to tell. I lean toward the first. All I know is that I'm tired of fighting these boneheads.

This bill is DEAD, no other way to put it. Maybe I'm looking at the glass as half empty, but I call it like I see it. Open carry in Texas is as it was when I was a young man trying to get something done on this issue, too controversial to be handled by the likes of what we have in Austin. This will be a matter for the courts to decide. Give it up guys, this is not going to be handled by the legislature. Not now, not in 2 years. Not until the all mighty and all knowing nra and tsra get on board. We have cowards in Austin, and always will.

I'm moving to Arizona. At least the folks over there have a respect for the rights of the citizens, well, mostly anyway, and a damned sight more than the hacks in Austin. I never thought I would see the day that I would gladly leave my beloved Texas, I was born here and hoped to die here, but alas I will not.

This is exactly why I love (for the moment) this federation so much. If I don't like it somewhere, I can depart for greener pastures of another state. Well, at least I can for now. There will come a day when the feds will rule all, and it will not matter what state you are in, all the laws will be the same.

My words will no longer grace the pages of OCDO, LSCDL, TGT, or any other gun rights group. I'm retiring the 28th and want to relax and not worry about such things. I hope some day that the members of the nra and tsra (not capitalized intentionally) will see the light and they become a mere memory. Remember this, the nra helped write the GCA '68, and it is almost verbatum, Hitlers little gun control act. A little more light for some who didn't know this fact. Enjoy your nra and tsra membership guys and gals.

With a tear in my eye I say,
Adios, my Texas,
I put you behind me

Dennis Patterson
 

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC
I had a feeling the lateness of this bill was going to kill it. Lavender should have known this as well, even if he is a first timer. He just got a lesson in how to make it appear that he supports something and how to kill it at the same time. Maybe he was sincere in this endeavor, maybe he was led astray by some one, maybe it was his intention all along. No way to tell. I lean toward the first. All I know is that I'm tired of fighting these boneheads.

This bill is DEAD, no other way to put it. Maybe I'm looking at the glass as half empty, but I call it like I see it. Open carry in Texas is as it was when I was a young man trying to get something done on this issue, too controversial to be handled by the likes of what we have in Austin. This will be a matter for the courts to decide. Give it up guys, this is not going to be handled by the legislature. Not now, not in 2 years. Not until the all mighty and all knowing nra and tsra get on board. We have cowards in Austin, and always will.

I'm moving to Arizona. At least the folks over there have a respect for the rights of the citizens, well, mostly anyway, and a damned sight more than the hacks in Austin. I never thought I would see the day that I would gladly leave my beloved Texas, I was born here and hoped to die here, but alas I will not.

This is exactly why I love (for the moment) this federation so much. If I don't like it somewhere, I can depart for greener pastures of another state. Well, at least I can for now. There will come a day when the feds will rule all, and it will not matter what state you are in, all the laws will be the same.

My words will no longer grace the pages of OCDO, LSCDL, TGT, or any other gun rights group. I'm retiring the 28th and want to relax and not worry about such things. I hope some day that the members of the nra and tsra (not capitalized intentionally) will see the light and they become a mere memory. Remember this, the nra helped write the GCA '68, and it is almost verbatum, Hitlers little gun control act. A little more light for some who didn't know this fact. Enjoy your nra and tsra membership guys and gals.

With a tear in my eye I say,
Adios, my Texas,
I put you behind me

Dennis Patterson

To the rest of you. Don't give up, keep trying. If you do give up and call it a loss then to you this is a fight not worth fighting and you can't speak of it. People like Dennis are why things don't change in the legislature. Waiting for someone els to come fight your fight.

Just look how over the 90's and the 2000s gun rights have progressed for the good. Open carry became legal in all but 8 or 9 states in 20 years or so. That might not seem short enough but it happend. Try again and this will pass. Don't try, and it won't pass. That simple.

"Do, or do not, there is no try." - Yoda

You keep fighting and it WILL eventualy pass. You don't fight for it and it will not.

All roads lead to Texas, I'll come home someday and I hope to have my pistol on my hip out in the Open when I do.

Gig'em!
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
My words will no longer grace the pages of OCDO, LSCDL, TGT, or any other gun rights group. I'm retiring the 28th and want to relax and not worry about such things. I hope some day that the members of the nra and tsra (not capitalized intentionally) will see the light and they become a mere memory. Remember this, the nra helped write the GCA '68, and it is almost verbatum, Hitlers little gun control act. A little more light for some who didn't know this fact. Enjoy your nra and tsra membership guys and gals.

With a tear in my eye I say,
Adios, my Texas,
I put you behind me

Dennis Patterson

Will definitely miss you - you have shared much with us and with perspective that has always been appreciated.

Would say that a move to Arizona will only enhance your traveling man image. :D

Come back and visit us, ya hear!
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
I "vote" with my wallet, as well as my voter registration card.

I will not "vote" for those who TALK "RIGHT TO carry", and pursue LICENSED carry.

This effort is not defined by HB 2756, whatever be the measure's future. You might want to rein back a bit before checking the "obit" columns for HB2756. Educating Texans regarding their consitutionally declared, and reserved RIGHTS, court action when approriate, and getting liberty bell-ringers elected to the Legislature will be the successful path.

The "stragglers" are beginning to come around because they are getting a good dose of the grass-roots momentum building for the ultimate objective -constitutional carry. Don't get too darned cozy with this novelty notion of "licensed open carry" . It is merely an intermediate step towards the objective. I don't see the NRA hitching a ride on this grass-roots "stallion" - because the NRA always prefers to ride "geldings".
 

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
FLSTNI would like to address the comment you have made on this post.
First of all, Mr. Lavendar went to the TSR and the NRA for open carry support. The TSRA lobbyist was very rude to the man and would not lobby for open carry, claiming to other things this session. Some of us also shared our thought with Mr. Lavendar about TSRA phone conversations where they wouldnt support open carry because they disapprove of open carry.
The NRA told Mr. Lavandar they would help him but asked him to enter the bill late.They explained the need to get the Campus carry and Parking lot carry out of the House first. At that time if he entered the open carry bill, they would support it. When the time came to lobby the bill upon entering it, the NRA asked him to get the bill out of Homeland Security Committee firts. "So We did". Then the NRA drew back further and requested him to get the bill to the House FLoor first.
So the NRA has not done anything as they claimed to do. By not helping push the bill, the bill became time sensitive because it was entered late at the request of the NRA.

The bill was not written poorly either. The bill simply took the concealment requirement out of the law and kept PC30.06 applicable to carrying a handgun. PC30.06 was the part that Charles Cotton was complaining about, " NRA BOARD MEMBER ELECT". Cotton didnt want PC30.06 to apply to open carry, instead he want PC30.05 to apply. " A $4,000 fine and 1 year in jail for failing to see notice!" And yes, we would rather not pass the bill if Cotton had his way with the wording! Everyone who had anything to do with HB2756 understood the importance of the PC30.06 sign and PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. None of us wanted to make it necessary for property owner to post two signs simply because they did not want guns on their property. " NOT ALLOWING GUNS IS ALSO A PERSON RIGHT". Cotton prides himself on keeping the Texas CHL sneaky. He has also laid claim to making the CHL sneaky by admitting the need to change the PC30.06 wording every legislative session. " That makes current signs invalid and allows CHL'ers to walk right past the sign with no legal recourse". You'll find that most people who support open carry will not support being sneaky either. If someone doesnt want us there, we leave.
The accusations that HB2756 was written poorly are not valid. Their simply excuses that the Elitist choose to ponder.
 

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
I had a feeling the lateness of this bill was going to kill it. Lavender should have known this as well, even if he is a first timer. He just got a lesson in how to make it appear that he supports something and how to kill it at the same time. Maybe he was sincere in this endeavor, maybe he was led astray by some one, maybe it was his intention all along. No way to tell. I lean toward the first. All I know is that I'm tired of fighting these boneheads.

This bill is DEAD, no other way to put it. Maybe I'm looking at the glass as half empty, but I call it like I see it. Open carry in Texas is as it was when I was a young man trying to get something done on this issue, too controversial to be handled by the likes of what we have in Austin. This will be a matter for the courts to decide. Give it up guys, this is not going to be handled by the legislature. Not now, not in 2 years. Not until the all mighty and all knowing nra and tsra get on board. We have cowards in Austin, and always will.

I'm moving to Arizona. At least the folks over there have a respect for the rights of the citizens, well, mostly anyway, and a damned sight more than the hacks in Austin. I never thought I would see the day that I would gladly leave my beloved Texas, I was born here and hoped to die here, but alas I will not.

This is exactly why I love (for the moment) this federation so much. If I don't like it somewhere, I can depart for greener pastures of another state. Well, at least I can for now. There will come a day when the feds will rule all, and it will not matter what state you are in, all the laws will be the same.

My words will no longer grace the pages of OCDO, LSCDL, TGT, or any other gun rights group. I'm retiring the 28th and want to relax and not worry about such things. I hope some day that the members of the nra and tsra (not capitalized intentionally) will see the light and they become a mere memory. Remember this, the nra helped write the GCA '68, and it is almost verbatum, Hitlers little gun control act. A little more light for some who didn't know this fact. Enjoy your nra and tsra membership guys and gals.

With a tear in my eye I say,
Adios, my Texas,
I put you behind me

Dennis Patterson

Well old Man, you better stay in touch! I like going to Arizona myself and you still owe me a cold Beer.
You know were to find me.......
 

nking

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
149
Location
Vernon, Wilbarger county, Texas, USA
Just got off the phone with Justin, Rep. Hunters Legislative Coordinator. Here's a rundown of what happened based on what he said and my notes as we had our conversation.

The Calendar Committee has to adress bills as it comes to them in order of when they were recieved. They are working till 10pm every night trying to play "catch up" because so many bills come to them during this crunch time. When the bill come in to calendars on the 3rd it had an Error in it from HS comittee. One that would have probably allowed opposition to make a "Point of Order" against it for breaking rules and would have killed the bill right there. I figurative "Headshot" to the bill. So they kicked it back and that's why it didn't arrive till the 6th. They want to make sure bills are ready to go and follow the rules so that things like that don't happen to the bills.

The bill cannot be called "Dead" until May 30th. It probably will not make it to house floor because they have till the 10pm today to get to the OC bill. But realist says they won't along with the other 50million bills before it and after it. Something that can happen and we need to put the preasure on those that support the bill.

There is something called "germained" amendments, I think that's what they are called and how it's spelled. I'm bad at spelling don't hold it against me, I'll try to get the message across as best I can. Anyway, in the Texas House, a germained amendment can tack on a bill to another bill on the floor as long as it deals with the same Subject matter. We could then get OC that way. That's why we can't call the bill dead till the 30th.

Now something Justin also told me, if this had passed the floor we would have had a hard time in Senate. They have the 2/3rds rule and there was not a OC bill in the Senate. However we probably would have had a hard time in the Senate to start with because it turns out the Campus Carry didn't have the votes in the Senate. However, the Senate doesn't have a subject matter germained amendment rule. The Campus Carry passed because it was germained onto a fiscal matters bill, I don't know which one. Something to think about.

Now if our hopes and dreams of getting OC this year are squashed come May 30th, when the new legislature starts up, we need to put the heat on Lavender, who wrote the bill, and all those in favor of it and those that helped it pass the HS committee to file this bill again, and push it through EARLY! EARLY! EARLY! And get a Senate companion or find someone to germain into a Senate bill that will likely pass.

Anyway, folks hope this answers some questions and sends some undeserved anger in a different direction. Justin assured me that Rep Hunter is an avid NRA and many members of our House are supporters of NRA and many are life member. Just because the NRA board members and leadership are not supporters of OC as someone stated, I don't know the truth to day btw, just stating that it doesn't mean every member is against it. Trust me when I say there are alot of House members that are 2A supportive and this is from Justin who I quote "I pitty any man that comes into the legislature intent on shooting up the place because he will end up with 1000 bullets in him." Don't loose faith. Don't give up. Though OC didn't pass anywhere this year I think the movement is moving forward. If it doesn't happen this year, we must try to get it moving next ear as early as possible.

Sorry this went long, sorry for spelling, sorry for grammar.

It was attached to SB1581
 

SA-TX

Centurion
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
275
Location
Ellis County, Texas, USA
A Reasonable Approach

The bill was not written poorly either. The bill simply took the concealment requirement out of the law and kept PC30.06 applicable to carrying a handgun. PC30.06 was the part that Charles Cotton was complaining about, " NRA BOARD MEMBER ELECT". Cotton didnt want PC30.06 to apply to open carry, instead he want PC30.05 to apply. " A $4,000 fine and 1 year in jail for failing to see notice!" And yes, we would rather not pass the bill if Cotton had his way with the wording! Everyone who had anything to do with HB2756 understood the importance of the PC30.06 sign and PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. None of us wanted to make it necessary for property owner to post two signs simply because they did not want guns on their property. " NOT ALLOWING GUNS IS ALSO A PERSON RIGHT". Cotton prides himself on keeping the Texas CHL sneaky. He has also laid claim to making the CHL sneaky by admitting the need to change the PC30.06 wording every legislative session. " That makes current signs invalid and allows CHL'ers to walk right past the sign with no legal recourse". You'll find that most people who support open carry will not support being sneaky either. If someone doesnt want us there, we leave.
The accusations that HB2756 was written poorly are not valid. Their simply excuses that the Elitist choose to ponder.

Like many here, I was disappointed that TSRA and the NRA chose not to make OC an issue they would address during this session. To the claims of "limited resources and political capital" I have said "at least try". If the OC bill had to yield to others deemed more important by the membership, fine, but at least try. I want to commend Rep. Lavendar and those here for getting a bill filed, heard in committee, and passed out. Those are achievements.

M.R., I have to disagree with you about 30.06 signs.

Firstly, the 30.06 signs haven't changed in several legislative sessions. As far as I know, since 1997 they have changed only once (when the language was moved from the civil books where it originally was to section 30.06 of the Government Code). True, this meant that older signs were no longer valid but I'd argue this was a beneficial side-effect rather than the true purpose of the bill. IMHO it was really an exercise in recodification & "legal cleanup" more than anything else.

Secondly, regarding TSRA/NRA being anti-OC, while Charles and others have promoted the "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" effect of CC and how this has reduced legitimate 30.06 postings, he has stated repeatedly and recently that he isn't anti-OC. If TSRA members want an OC bill, they will work on one but it wasn't going to happen this session due to the other bills. He personally SUPPORTS OC, as does the NRA, and that's demonstrated by the NRA OC bill in FL. Neither he nor TSRA have come out against the bill nor have they supported it or lobbied for it; they have been neutral.

Let me say again that I disagree with their contention that an OC bill was "just too much" given the other bills they were carrying. I want OC and I want it this session. However, TSRA taking a neutral approach to a bill they didn't draft isn't unreasonable and anti-OC.

Thirdly, the concerns about 30.06 are very real. Even though I disagree with those, including Charles, who believe that there will be large numbers of new postings, I understand their fears. Since most CHL holders will never carry openly, anything that even potentially increases the number of postings is a problem that OC supporters MUST overcome. The CHL population will simply not support something that, rightly or wrongly, they believe will increase postings.

If I read your post correctly, you'd rather the bill not pass than 30.06 not cover OC. If that is a correct statement of your view, then I must disagree with you. Consider the benefits that the bill would have even if 30.06 is not amended:

1) Open Carry, as a general proposition, will be legal if you have a CHL. That means while fishing, hunting, on someone else's property who is an OC supporter, etc. Nearly everywhere in the great outdoors, you no longer have to conceal if you don't want to.
2) Unless there is a sign of some variety, you can open carry in businesses. For all the talk about Gun Buster's signs, there are many, many businesses that have none. If you asked to leave, you leave.
3) If you do find yourself at a business with a gun busters but not 30.06-compliant sign, you get to decide whether to conceal and enter or take your business elsewhere.
4) Once OC is law, and the horrible situations fail to materialize, it will be much easier to go back and make positive changes. This exactly what's happened with the CHL law.

TSRA/Charles has been clear on this point: any OC bill that amends 30.06 is unacceptable and they will move from neutrality to opposition. Say what you like, but that means death for the bill/language. The end of the session is rapidly approaching. IMHO, it is get-what-you-can time. If those who oppose OC because of 30.06 concerns will drop their opposition or become supporters of the proposal, this is a victory. If that makes the langugage palatable so that it can be folded into another bill, take the deal. I, as one OC supporter, would LOVE to have the benefits listed above rather than nothing.

SA-TX
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
He personally SUPPORTS OC...
Dude, I live in Georgia and have only been to Texas twice, even I know that by this statement you are either extremely misinformed or are flat out lying.

I still don't understand why you people in Texas are so gung ho for 30.06 when you are in the vast minority to criminalize ignoring a sign. Anyone can be asked to leave for any reason and if they don't, they go to jail. What is wrong with that?
 
Last edited:

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
Dude, I live in Georgia and have only been to Texas twice, even I know that by this statement you are either extremely misinformed or are flat out lying.

I still don't understand why you people in Texas are so gung ho for 30.06 when you are in the vast minority to criminalize ignoring a sign. Anyone can be asked to leave for any reason and if they don't, they go to jail. What is wrong with that?

There's nothing really wrong with 30.06.
What's been suggested is to allow the simply "No Guns" sign to open carry. " That aint happening! No Guns sings fall under PC30.05, a $4,000 fine and a year in jail.
We want to decriminalize carrying firearms, not get people thrown in jail. At the same time we do not want to "trick" private property owners.
" Thats Why 30.06 needs to apply to carrying a handgun open or concealed."
 
Top