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Thread: I am Confused.

  1. #1
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    I am Confused.

    I went to the NRA meeting at Cabela's last night. I got the impression that the reason the NRA likes the permit system is because the Federal Gun Free School Zone law says that only licensed conceal carry is allowed in the GFSZ. The Constitutional Carry Law proposed would not be acceptable to the FEDS because there is no permit. I also thought that the Constitutional carry bill would eliminate the 1000 foot rule like the Licensed bill does but the NRA guy said no. So what is going on with the GFSZ in the two or 3 bills out there now?

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Both bills take the WI GFSZ down to the property line. The first federal GFSZ was found unconstitutional but was passed again, somehow, when they added interstate commerce (not sure how that applies at all). So if someone was charged with the federal GFSZ, I'm sure it would be found unconstitutional. MT has language in their carry law that says anyone who is able to carry, is considered "licensed" by the state (sorry, I do not have the statute available).
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    deleted for being an incorrect statement.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 05-12-2011 at 09:57 AM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    the NRA likes the permit system because NRA trainers will make a lot of $$$$ money training the masses, the NRA does nothing unless their is something in it for them on the backside. a self serving agenda
    Glock, so far, none of the bills that have actually been introduced have ANY training component. The NRA reps last night ALL said that as far as they are concerned, any training requirement is a non-starter.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Glock, so far, none of the bills that have actually been introduced have ANY training component. The NRA reps last night ALL said that as far as they are concerned, any training requirement is a non-starter.
    Thank you for passing that along. Then I will retract my statement.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  6. #6
    McX
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    will the sidewalk bordering the school be considered public or school property?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    will the sidewalk bordering the school be considered public or school property?
    That is an interesting technical question, the answer to which is going to be likely founded in real estate law. Whether the sidewalk is school property with an easement or municipal property/right of way will have much bearing. Arguments abound on both sides - have never seen a court of record cite that clarified this.
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    As I understand it a concealed weapon permit does not automatically exempt the federal GFSZ law. The state must acknowledge in the concealed weapon statute that the permit complies with the federal license requirement.

    The originaal federal GFSZ law(1990) was found unconstitutional by SCOTUS in U.S. v Lopez. It was found to be in violation of the interstate commerce clause contained in the U.S. Constitution. Subsequently congress got out their magic pencils and weasle worded and enacted a new version of the GFSZ law. It is essentially the same as the old version but with some creative editorializing. Most experts expect that if the new version gets before SCOTUS it too will be found unconstitutional. I presume that is why we haven't seen any federal prosecution of the law in recent years. In fact I don't recall that the fact that the GFSZ law was violated was mentioned in any of the recent school shootings, by either the media or politicians. You would think beause it carries with it the serious charge of a felony that it would have been mentioned. The politicians and justice department appear to want to keep it as far away from the court systems as possible.

    MY opinions

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    Thanks for the clarification on the GFSZ. I am disappointed in the misinformation the NRA is saying about the constitutional carry bill though.

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    It Sounds Like the NRA Guy Had It Exactly Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz272 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification on the GFSZ. I am disappointed in the misinformation the NRA is saying about the constitutional carry bill though.
    Nothing in state law (any proposal) can alter the content of the federal law. While it is proposed to reduce the state GFSZ from 1000' out to just the school grounds, the federal GFSZ would still be 1000" - one advantage of a qualified permit is exemption from the federal law. The MT method is a case of "nice try" - the federal has fairly clear requirements. Writing a state law that pretends to comply is an exercise in futility. The only answer is to change the federal GFSZ or hope SCOTUS dropkicks it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Both bills take the WI GFSZ down to the property line. The first federal GFSZ was found unconstitutional but was passed again, somehow, when they added interstate commerce (not sure how that applies at all).
    Lopez successfully argued that the original act was too broad - the gov't couldn't claim authority like that. The updated version threw it under the realm of the Commerce clause where the feds can do almost anything they want.

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