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Thread: Open Carry at a School function in MS

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    Open Carry at a School function in MS

    What the title says basically....My daughter has a end of the year party at a public bowling alley but most people there will have something to do with the public school...Am I good or what? This is MS where it is open carry im just worried about throwing in the school function...

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    It is my understanding that without a permit from the state (MS) you would be breaking the federal GFSZ law.

    But I'm from MI...What do I know...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    It is my understanding that without a permit from the state (MS) you would be breaking the federal GFSZ law.
    A bowling alley is not a school. GFSZA doesn't apply.

    And, a state concealed carry license is required to OC in MS, because they consider it "concealed" if any part of the gun is covered (like by a holster).

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    Might want to read the schools handbook on this one..."off campus function" at our kids school is STILL a school function and falls under state/federal law. Catholic schools leave little grey area.

    Seriously...Would you be in a bad area and feel the need to carry?

    My wife and I opt out of carrying at "our" school related functions, period. Pretty much because the locations are all restricted anyway!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavon View Post
    Might want to read the schools handbook on this one..."off campus function" at our kids school is STILL a school function and falls under state/federal law. Catholic schools leave little grey area.

    Seriously...Would you be in a bad area and feel the need to carry?

    My wife and I opt out of carrying at "our" school related functions, period. Pretty much because the locations are all restricted anyway!
    It doesn't matter what your school's handbook says, it matters what the actual laws say. A school can say whatever it wants, but if the laws of the state say something different then that's what matters as the school can't take you to court.

    Also it's rarely about the "need" to carry. Up until something happens you don't "need" to carry, but you never know when that something will happen. Which is why I personally carry around my house even though the doors are often locked and it's in a good part of town.

    Now if the place is restricted that's a different story, but there's no reason not to carry so long as it's legal and you aren't doing something like getting completely plastered.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 05-13-2011 at 11:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    It doesn't matter what your school's handbook says, it matters what the actual laws say. A school can say whatever it wants, but if the laws of the state say something different then that's what matters as the school can't take you to court.
    If one is attending or chaperoning at a school function, they must follow the school rules, which likely do not carry the force of law.

    Even if MS law prohibits carry near school functions, such as in bowling alleys, this will easily be found unconstitutionally over-broad, as GFSZ's would become moving targets, impossible to avoid by the lawfully armed public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    If one is attending or chaperoning at a school function, they must follow the school rules, which likely do not carry the force of law.

    Even if MS law prohibits carry near school functions, such as in bowling alleys, this will easily be found unconstitutionally over-broad, as GFSZ's would become moving targets, impossible to avoid by the lawfully armed public.
    And depending on the function one can simply show up to the public place without really being a part of the school function.

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    My reading skills are really going downhill...I missed the Public bowling alley part...

    If carrying within MS law, you should be good to go.

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    This is very similar to the following scenario (you are armed in both examples).

    Example A:
    You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. The manager has designated his restaurant for this activity and the entire dining room is to be used for said school event.

    Example B:
    You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. Thirty some students with their teachers decent upon the restaurant for their lunch.

    In Example A, you would be in violation of federal law. In Example B, you would not. I was in a Home Depot last Thursday and walked right in front of a school bus unloading elementary students with their teachers as they made their way into the store for a "visit". I walked past them at least twice in the store while OC'ing and was not breaking any law at all since the store had not closed off a portion, or the entire business, for their visit.

    So if the bowling alley is not closing off things just for the students, then you should be fine (unless there is a state law which prohibits this).
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    It does not matter what the school rules book says, if you are following the state laws and the private bowling allie allows it, the school can’t do anything. I am not a fan of the public school systems way of shoving its weight around as if their rules outweigh any of the state’s law. I went to a similar function with my kids and the school officials did not like it, but it was in a private business and they had no say in the matter because it was still open to others of the public.
    Last edited by zack991; 05-15-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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    I've OC'd into the office complex of my apartment on more than one occasion when the school bus was dropping off kids. The bus driver saw it but didn't seem to mind. The apartment complex manager wasn't too happy, though, and thought it would be the apartment complex in trouble. I reminded her of the acronym, GFSZ has to with carry within 1,000' of a school, not a school bus, but she didn't didn't accept that.

    I suspect my OCing is the main reason they're choosing not to renew my lease.
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I've OC'd into the office complex of my apartment on more than one occasion when the school bus was dropping off kids. The bus driver saw it but didn't seem to mind. The apartment complex manager wasn't too happy, though, and thought it would be the apartment complex in trouble. I reminded her of the acronym, GFSZ has to with carry within 1,000' of a school, not a school bus, but she didn't didn't accept that.

    I suspect my OCing is the main reason they're choosing not to renew my lease.
    If you cared to could you go after them for discrimination?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is very similar to the following scenario (you are armed in both examples).

    Example A:
    You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. The manager has designated his restaurant for this activity and the entire dining room is to be used for said school event.

    Example B:
    You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. Thirty some students with their teachers decent upon the restaurant for their lunch.

    In Example A, you would be in violation of federal law. In Example B, you would not. I was in a Home Depot last Thursday and walked right in front of a school bus unloading elementary students with their teachers as they made their way into the store for a "visit". I walked past them at least twice in the store while OC'ing and was not breaking any law at all since the store had not closed off a portion, or the entire business, for their visit.

    So if the bowling alley is not closing off things just for the students, then you should be fine (unless there is a state law which prohibits this).
    There's a whole lot of misunderstanding about the federal GFSZA in your post.

    http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

    Just for starters, it specifically does not apply to "private property not part of school grounds". That includes fast food restaurants where school groups stop, or museums where they tour.

    Second, even in the "school zone", it doesn't apply "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license".

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    There's a whole lot of misunderstanding about the federal GFSZA in your post.

    http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

    Just for starters, it specifically does not apply to "private property not part of school grounds". That includes fast food restaurants where school groups stop, or museums where they tour.

    Second, even in the "school zone", it doesn't apply "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license".
    Well you are both right and wrong. Right as it applies to U.S. Code 18,922, but wrong as far as Virginia is concerned. And since I live in Virginia, you're wrong.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 05-16-2011 at 08:23 AM.
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    ShannonAR15:

    Federal Law and Mississippi Law are Two Different Things, Entirely.

    Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2), you would be Fine, however; The Same CANNOT be said under Mississippi Law, more Specifically, Mississippi Law 97-37-17.

    If I were You, then, Knowing that This Event is School-related, even at a Bowling Alley, I would Follow Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(a) through Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(c).

    Leave The Firearm in The Car, unless; You want to 'Play-with-Fire' on a Mississippi Firearms-related Felony Charge.

    *** Next Year, go to Jackson, and Loudly Complain that Mississippi State should Add The Following: (9) Nothing under This Code Section shall Apply to or Effect any Adult, not being a Student of such School, from The Possession of any Weapon on Educational Property if such Adult is in Possession of a Valid and Lawfully Issued License to Carry a Stun Gun, Pistol, or Revolver if such License is Obtained under The Provisions of Mississippi Code Section 45-9-101. ***

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 05-16-2011 at 12:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    ShannonAR15:

    Federal Law and Mississippi Law are Two Different Things, Entirely.

    Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2), you would be Fine, however; The Same CANNOT be said under Mississippi Law, more Specifically, Mississippi Law 97-37-17.

    If I were You, then, Knowing that This Event is School-related, even at a Bowling Alley, I would Follow Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(a) through Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(c).

    Leave The Firearm in The Car, unless; You want to 'Play-with-Fire' on a Mississippi Firearms-related Felony Charge.

    *** Next Year, go to Jackson, and Loudly Complain that Mississippi State should Add The Following: (9) Nothing under This Code Section shall Apply to or Effect any Adult, not being a Student of such School, from The Possession of any Weapon on Educational Property if such Adult is in Possession of a Valid and Lawfully Issued License to Carry a Stun Gun, Pistol, or Revolver if such License is Obtained under The Provisions of Mississippi Code Section 45-9-101. ***

    aadvark
    97-37-17 doesn't apply. Here's a link to 97-37-17. Specifically 1a outlines educational property, and that such property must be either publicly or privately owned by a school AND have a school building, campus, recreational area, or atheletic field on it. So unless the bowling alley is owned by the school and is on school grounds then 97-37-17 doesn't apply to it and he can legally carry the weapon. Nothing in there states that he can't carry his weapon at an off-site event sponsored by the school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    And since I live in Virginia, you're wrong.
    (Psssst.... this is about Mississippi.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    (Psssst.... this is about Mississippi.)
    Yes, a fact of which I am aware.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    97-37-17 doesn't apply. Here's a link to 97-37-17. Specifically 1a outlines educational property, and that such property must be either publicly or privately owned by a school AND have a school building, campus, recreational area, or atheletic field on it. So unless the bowling alley is owned by the school and is on school grounds then 97-37-17 doesn't apply to it and he can legally carry the weapon. Nothing in there states that he can't carry his weapon at an off-site event sponsored by the school.
    Agreed. There's no reasonable stretch of the imagination that can count a privately owned bowling alley as "educational property" under Mississippi law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Agreed. There's no reasonable stretch of the imagination that can count a privately owned bowling alley as "educational property" under Mississippi law.
    Yea they would be stretching it big time, it does not mean some idiot union stooge would not try. I don't think any school wants any more negative spot lights on them especially violating a Americans right to open carry in a privately owned Bowling Allie. They would be looking at a quite a few law suits, if they push it they would get tremendous heat not just from Gun groups, but other organizations that would be very much against the idea that a school can impede their policy as law in their establishments. I would truly hope if they did pursue it the lawsuit drains the school board of its funds.
    Last edited by zack991; 05-17-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    If you cared to could you go after them for discrimination?
    Unfortunately, no. "Discrimination" is limited to the few things specifically stated in the law, such as race, religion, gender, nationality, etc.

    If they don't like the length of your hair or whether or not you OC, however, they can refuse to renew your lease and get away with it.
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    State Law Applies

    I OC'd at my granddaughter's Elementary School "Spirit" Night at a local restaurant; the place was teeming with kids. There was nothing said and no problems.

    Of course, I live in Virginia.

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    Unhappy Never know

    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    It doesn't matter what your school's handbook says, it matters what the actual laws say. A school can say whatever it wants, but if the laws of the state say something different then that's what matters as the school can't take you to court.

    Also it's rarely about the "need" to carry. Up until something happens you don't "need" to carry, but you never know when that something will happen. Which is why I personally carry around my house even though the doors are often locked and it's in a good part of town.

    Now if the place is restricted that's a different story, but there's no reason not to carry so long as it's legal and you aren't doing something like getting completely plastered.
    You are right on in saying that you never know when some thing will happen. This week here in Kinston , North Carolina four Federal Marshal went to a house to serve papers and arrest a suspect for murder. The people in the house open fire and shot through the door killing one of the Federal Marshals . The marshal was wearing a bullet proof vest and hit in the chest but the vest didn't stop the bullet that killed him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    I OC'd at my granddaughter's Elementary School "Spirit" Night at a local restaurant; the place was teeming with kids. There was nothing said and no problems.

    Of course, I live in Virginia.
    As long as the restaurant was not closed off for this special designated school event, you were fine. If it was, you were breaking the law.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 06-12-2011 at 08:11 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    A bowling alley is not a school. GFSZA doesn't apply.

    And, a state concealed carry license is required to OC in MS, because they consider it "concealed" if any part of the gun is covered (like by a holster).
    Please don't read and parrot the incorrect information from this website it is widespread hearsay and is detrimental to MS. The constitution of MS is very clear that a permit is not required to OC in MS. Most of us recommend having a permit first, to cover ones rear with in case one comes across a LEO who is highly uninformed, to avoid a possible false arrest.

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